I also don't fully agree with the whole "imagine the heat without wade" argument. Ya, they'd be bad. But which of the aforementioned teams would be good? Yes, the Cavs supporting cast is better, but does the difference between talent make up for the 24 wins that separate the Cavs and the Heat? The Cavs are considered a great defensive team, but who on that team is good at playing defense besides LBJ (besides Ben Wallace when healthy)? Remember, it's easy to overrate a surrounding cast when the star is making the rest of the team that much better.
Finally, the simplest way I look at it is through "trade scenarios." If you traded Dwayne Wade straight up for any of the other MVP candidates, wouldn't in every scenario the Heat get better and the other team gets worse?
Again, he's nice, but he's not the MVP.
In addition to everything cordobes said, these are two very important points. Thanks for bringing up the "trade" comment, SO.
Granted, the way the chatter goes sometimes, neither player should be eligible - Wade's team didn't win enough games, and LBJ's teammates were too good.
Oh, right. That's ridiculous on both counts.
Taking each player off his team does nothing but reward the guy who plays with worse teammates. They've been very close, and I believe they are 1-2 in the balloting, but LBJ offers more defensive versatility and, as cordobes notes, better scoring efficiency and boardwork.
-sw
As far as the trade question goes, the answer (with the possible exception of LeBron) is no, that team absolutely does not get better.
This is the danger of posting late at night while rushing to get off a public computer (my not-so-trusty ol' Macbook is at Apple right now) - I owe you an apology and clarification, KC. I read a bit quickly on SO's post and didn't say exactly what I should have - which is that the trade idea as a concept, makes a lot of sense to me - but the place I would apply it here is with and only with LeBron.
I think you're absolutely right that I'm not moving Wade for any of the other candidates. But I think the Heat at least consider moving 2009 Wade for 2009 James while I don't think Cleveland does it the other way around (this is, of course, only in our "no-strings-attached hypothetical, this-season-only" world). I certainly buy that he's in the discussion and and made this a closer race than I would have expected. I just don't think he's the one this season.
Sorry for any lack of clarity earlier - I should have been more careful in my word choice there.
-sw
Exactly Steve, I don't literally mean that these teams should uproot their superstars, but just hypothetically to make a point:
Lebron James' Heat would get better, Dwayne Wade's Cavs would get worse. Which is kind of an annex to my fundamental argument; that the difference between the two's cast doesn't come anywhere close to the difference between the wins (26 wins, roughly 25% better).
Where I disagree is that I think that Howard, Kobe, and CP3 are also having better seasons than Wade. Stats aren't everything, in fact I'm somewhat contradicting myself in an earlier post when I stated D-Wade's defense isn't as good as his stat lines, but my god, take a look at Dwight Howard and Chris Paul's statistics. They're absolutely ridiculous!
Yes, Paul's team has gotten worse than they were last year, but they've also been battling injuries significantly worse, and when these players (Peja and Chandler mostly) did return they didn't play anywhere close to the levels that one would expect. Despite these losses, he's kept his team winning and his production has remained the same. Many of us were upset that he didn't win it last year, why is he so out of this year?
07-08: 21.1 points on .488 shooting, 11.6 assists, 4.0 rebounds, 2.7 steals and 2.5 to's a game
08-09: 22.8 points on .504 shooting, 11.0 assists, 5.5 rebounds, 2.8 steals and 3.0 to's a game.
(Which is more steals, assists, rebounds, better fg%, and less turnovers than Wade who beats Cp3 in overall points and blocks.)
Mid season we were talking about how important Jameer Nelson was to the Magic's success, yet with him injured they haven't lost a step. And the predominant portion of their PG minutes are going to a tandem of Anthony Johnson and Rafer Alston. While its nice to have players like Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu, they don't make up a successful team: Dwight Howard does.
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