NBA MVP

[cordobes]

Cavs record in the last 2 years without LeBron:

0 wins - 7 losses

[StartOrien]

1. Lebron
2. Lebron
3. Lebron
4. Kobe
5. CP3
6. Dwight
7. Wade

Maybe this deserves its own thread, but I'm getting really tired of hearing about Dwayne Wade in the MVP conversation. He's a great player, probably top five, but I don't think he has any business in the most valuable player conversation.

First off, I don't think his defense is nearly as good as some people think. I think you can take a look at his statistics, see a lot of steals and blocks and be tricked into thinking that he is a good defensive player but his on the ball defense isn't much to write home about. His anticipation off the ball is very good, however his educated gambles often don't pay off and put his team in a bad position.

I also don't fully agree with the whole "imagine the heat without wade" argument. Ya, they'd be bad. But which of the aforementioned teams would be good? Yes, the Cavs supporting cast is better, but does the difference between talent make up for the 24 wins that separate the Cavs and the Heat? The Cavs are considered a great defensive team, but who on that team is good at playing defense besides LBJ (besides Ben Wallace when healthy)? Remember, it's easy to overrate a surrounding cast when the star is making the rest of the team that much better.

Finally, the simplest way I look at it is through "trade scenarios." If you traded Dwayne Wade straight up for any of the other MVP candidates, wouldn't in every scenario the Heat get better and the other team gets worse?
Again, he's nice, but he's not the MVP.

[Steve Weinman]

I also don't fully agree with the whole "imagine the heat without wade" argument. Ya, they'd be bad. But which of the aforementioned teams would be good? Yes, the Cavs supporting cast is better, but does the difference between talent make up for the 24 wins that separate the Cavs and the Heat? The Cavs are considered a great defensive team, but who on that team is good at playing defense besides LBJ (besides Ben Wallace when healthy)? Remember, it's easy to overrate a surrounding cast when the star is making the rest of the team that much better.

Finally, the simplest way I look at it is through "trade scenarios." If you traded Dwayne Wade straight up for any of the other MVP candidates, wouldn't in every scenario the Heat get better and the other team gets worse?
Again, he's nice, but he's not the MVP.

In addition to everything cordobes said, these are two very important points.  Thanks for bringing up the "trade" comment, SO.

Granted, the way the chatter goes sometimes, neither player should be eligible - Wade's team didn't win enough games, and LBJ's teammates were too good.

Oh, right.  That's ridiculous on both counts.

Taking each player off his team does nothing but reward the guy who plays with worse teammates.  They've been very close, and I believe they are 1-2 in the balloting, but LBJ offers more defensive versatility and, as cordobes notes, better scoring efficiency and boardwork.

-sw

[OmarSekou]

I'm getting really tired of hearing about Dwayne Wade in the MVP conversation. He's a great player, probably top five, but I don't think he has any business in the most valuable player conversation.

Why not? No one in the league is playing at a significantly higher level than Wade. He passes the eye test and the stat test.

On top of that I base the initial criteria for the regular season MVP on who is the most important player on any team. Without Wade or CP3, their teams are going to the lottery, not the playoffs. No one else can say that. Those two gave their team a chance at a title which is the most important thing in the regular season. A chance at a title trumps home court advantage in terms of value to me.

I also don't fully agree with the whole "imagine the heat without wade" argument...the simplest way I look at it is through "trade scenarios." If you traded Dwayne Wade straight up for any of the other MVP candidates, wouldn't in every scenario the Heat get better and the other team gets worse?
Again, he's nice, but he's not the MVP.

The simplest way to decide anything shouldn't be based on hypothetical situations. Yes Wade probably did the most because he had the least to work with, but that doesn't change the fact that he did the most.

I hate that every year ESPN and the media changes how they'll decide an MVP and everyone jumps on whoever they make the front runner. In purely basketball terms, no one has meant more to their team than DWade this season in deciding wins and losses and creating team success. That's an MVP.

[ACF]

Wade. He's living proof that one player
can carry an entire team, at least for
most of the season. That's "MVP" to me.

[KCattheStripe]

I also don't fully agree with the whole "imagine the heat without wade" argument. Ya, they'd be bad. But which of the aforementioned teams would be good? Yes, the Cavs supporting cast is better, but does the difference between talent make up for the 24 wins that separate the Cavs and the Heat? The Cavs are considered a great defensive team, but who on that team is good at playing defense besides LBJ (besides Ben Wallace when healthy)? Remember, it's easy to overrate a surrounding cast when the star is making the rest of the team that much better.

Finally, the simplest way I look at it is through "trade scenarios." If you traded Dwayne Wade straight up for any of the other MVP candidates, wouldn't in every scenario the Heat get better and the other team gets worse?
Again, he's nice, but he's not the MVP.

In addition to everything cordobes said, these are two very important points.  Thanks for bringing up the "trade" comment, SO.

Granted, the way the chatter goes sometimes, neither player should be eligible - Wade's team didn't win enough games, and LBJ's teammates were too good.

Oh, right.  That's ridiculous on both counts.

Taking each player off his team does nothing but reward the guy who plays with worse teammates.  They've been very close, and I believe they are 1-2 in the balloting, but LBJ offers more defensive versatility and, as cordobes notes, better scoring efficiency and boardwork.

-sw

As far as the trade question goes, the answer (with the possible exception of LeBron) is no, that team absolutely does not get better. I think people are underestimating two things here, the first being how high a level DWade is playing at and Secondly, he's the best leader out of any of the MVP candidates, bar none. He's already lead a group of veterans to a title, and now he's leading a group of young players, with a first year head coach, into the playoffs.

I agree that its easy to overrate the role players around the star player, however I see a team of players that have a ton of experience ( All Star and NBA playoffs/ Finals) that is a battle tested group. The Heat role players are nowhere near as good on their own, that's just fact. I don't think this argument is ridiculous when the word "Valuable" is in the award, how else do you measure "Value". Unless, value to the league ( which I think is fine criteria) is a part of it, then its LBJ in a walk.

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

Wade. He's living proof that one player
can carry an entire team, at least for
most of the season. That's "MVP" to me.

Lebron hasnt carried the cavs?

Obviously anyone not saying lebron is letting there celtic pride get in the way, considering the cavs and lebron are our rivals

[ACF]

Wade. He's living proof that one player
can carry an entire team, at least for
most of the season. That's "MVP" to me.

Lebron hasnt carried the cavs?

Obviously anyone not saying lebron is letting there celtic pride get in the way, considering the cavs and lebron are our rivals

I don't agree. I'm sure the Cavs
would be a better team than Miami,
if we took LBJ and Wade away.
I'm not saying Wade is better than
LBJ, I don't think he really is.
But I think he is more important to
his team, and thus, the MVP.

[LB3533]

Question: Who has been the best player this season?

Answer: Lebron James

Lebron James is the MVP, clearly.

MVP shouldn't be about wins. Jerry West won a Final's MVP and his team lost.

[ACF]

I wonder what the qualifications are?
If MVP = best player, then clearly it's
LeBron's to hold. No doubt.

I always thought the MVP = most valuable
player to his team. I could be wrong?

Does anyone know?

[CoachBo]

I also don't fully agree with the whole "imagine the heat without wade" argument. Ya, they'd be bad. But which of the aforementioned teams would be good? Yes, the Cavs supporting cast is better, but does the difference between talent make up for the 24 wins that separate the Cavs and the Heat? The Cavs are considered a great defensive team, but who on that team is good at playing defense besides LBJ (besides Ben Wallace when healthy)? Remember, it's easy to overrate a surrounding cast when the star is making the rest of the team that much better.

Finally, the simplest way I look at it is through "trade scenarios." If you traded Dwayne Wade straight up for any of the other MVP candidates, wouldn't in every scenario the Heat get better and the other team gets worse?
Again, he's nice, but he's not the MVP.

In addition to everything cordobes said, these are two very important points.  Thanks for bringing up the "trade" comment, SO.

Granted, the way the chatter goes sometimes, neither player should be eligible - Wade's team didn't win enough games, and LBJ's teammates were too good.

Oh, right.  That's ridiculous on both counts.

Taking each player off his team does nothing but reward the guy who plays with worse teammates.  They've been very close, and I believe they are 1-2 in the balloting, but LBJ offers more defensive versatility and, as cordobes notes, better scoring efficiency and boardwork.

-sw

Could not agree more, Steve and Cordobes. TP. When I think MVP, I'm looking for the best rounded game and as has been pointed out above, LBJ is a versatile and talented defender, along with better bang for the scoring buck and rebounding.

This is really a pretty easy question, I think. It's LBJ in a landslide, with apologies to those of you who lived through the 1960s.

[2short]

best player in the nba=lebron james
2nd best but a jerk =kobe
Sorry but this is not my definition of most valuable player (to their team).  Of course this isn't how the real voting is done, its popularity etc etc (see steve nash!)
1. chris paul
2. dwayne wade
3. lebron james

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

Wade. He's living proof that one player
can carry an entire team, at least for
most of the season. That's "MVP" to me.

Lebron hasnt carried the cavs?

Obviously anyone not saying lebron is letting there celtic pride get in the way, considering the cavs and lebron are our rivals

I don't agree. I'm sure the Cavs
would be a better team than Miami,
if we took LBJ and Wade away.
I'm not saying Wade is better than
LBJ, I don't think he really is.
But I think he is more important to
his team, and thus, the MVP.

I see what you're  saying, i still tottally disagree

The cavs are going to tie the all-time best regualar season home record and finish 67-15, without Lebron they maybe win 25 games.

I also witnessed with my own 2 eyes the heat come in to boston and be more competive without dwade then they were a week later with him. Lebron James makes everyone he playes with twice as good, I dont personally  think wade makes his teammates better, or else the heat would be just as good as the cavs, i think the theory lebrons teammates are all of a sudden great is a joke....theyre all average role players, besides mo williams who is an above average role player

[LB3533]

I wonder what the qualifications are?
If MVP = best player, then clearly it's
LeBron's to hold. No doubt.

I always thought the MVP = most valuable
player to his team. I could be wrong?

Does anyone know?

best player in the nba=lebron james
2nd best but a jerk =kobe
Sorry but this is not my definition of most valuable player (to their team).  Of course this isn't how the real voting is done, its popularity etc etc (see steve nash!)
1. chris paul
2. dwayne wade
3. lebron james

The NBA MVP or League MVP should not take into account Team achievement's.

It should be about the player who is "Most Valuable" to the league, to the NBA...not Cleveland, not LA, not Boston.

The League MVP or the NBA MVP should be or should equal "the best player".

[MMacOH]

Take away all of the FT attempts Wade gets by getting 'touched' on his drives and he easily scores 5-7 points less a game.

I know we all complain about the call LBJ gets (I complain about the calls Pierce gets), but you can't breathe near DWade without getting foul called on you.

Wade is not the MVP.