The NBA wants Lebron to travel more

[LB3533]

How is that last clip a travel?

2 steps after his last dribble, clearly.

[LB3533]

How is it allowed if it isn't a rule? The game has rules, refs don't have the discretionary power of making them up as the game goes.

Refs have the power to make crap up all the time.

What do you call a whistle blowing when a player misses the shot and the whistle blows 5 seconds later, only because the shot was missed?

What do you call "makeup" calls? It's the most classic discretionary power refs utilize.

[LB3533]

I know the travelling rule that talks about a "two-count rhythm" and I know how the NBA refs are supposed to interpret it, but I've never read that rule you're talking about.

There is no "2 step rule". The 2 count rhythm is the rule and refs go by 2 steps = 2 counts.

How is the jump-stop a violation of the rules? Of what rule, exactly? The jump-stop is and always was allowed everywhere. See rule 10, section XIV, e) - it specifically allows the jump-stop. 

Rule 10, Section XIV, e) states: "A player who comes to a stop on the count of two, with neither foot in advance of the other, may use either foot as the pivot foot."

I don't see anything about jumping and stopping in that part of the rule.

When I say that the "jump-stop" is a violation and was a violation in the NBA back in the early 90's is when a player would dribble and make move...stop his dribble in conjunction with a hop and then land and then go back up again for a shot or pass.

For me, when you leave the floor with ball in your hand and you land without shooting it or passing it (dribble or no dribble) then it is a violation.

This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_mdDBjpNME



is classic example of "jump-stop" violation that wasn't called for a violation. (And is probably legal in today's NBA, but wasn't when Dino Radja was playing)

In today's NBA, players like Iverson, Lebron, Kobe, Wade are allowed to dribble anywhere on the court and "jump-stop" to either go for a layup or a fadeaway jumper.

Now if the NBA and the refs are going to allow the "jump-stop" to be legal or at the very least not call it a violation...then how can a "3rd" measly step by Lebron be called a travel? (It wasn't a 3rd step either!)

[cordobes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcFLrSTH6bc

is it me or is this new ad a showing of a clear travel?

To me that can be everything except clear. I watched the play once - in slow motion - and I have doubts if00 it's a travel or not. Of course, I can re-watch it as many times I need till I reach a conclusion.

It's very simple: if he had his dribble picked, if he had control of the ball, when his right foot was on the floor, it was a travel violation by the book. If he didn't, then it wasn't.

However, good luck trying to catch that in real time. In cases like this, NBA refs generally don't make the call, simply because it's basically impossible for them to be sure that when the ball came to rest on the players hand, the foot was still on the floor.

[cordobes]

How is it allowed if it isn't a rule? The game has rules, refs don't have the discretionary power of making them up as the game goes.

Refs have the power to make crap up all the time.

What do you call a whistle blowing when a player misses the shot and the whistle blows 5 seconds later, only because the shot was missed?

What do you call "makeup" calls? It's the most classic discretionary power refs utilize.

That's a different issue. Refs aren't perfect. Things like those happen at every level, in every sport, it's not a NBA problem.

[crownsy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcFLrSTH6bc

is it me or is this new ad a showing of a clear travel?

To me that can be everything except clear. I watched the play once - in slow motion - and I have doubts if00 it's a travel or not. Of course, I can re-watch it as many times I need till I reach a conclusion.

It's very simple: if he had his dribble picked, if he had control of the ball, when his right foot was on the floor, it was a travel violation by the book. If he didn't, then it wasn't.

However, good luck trying to catch that in real time. In cases like this, NBA refs generally don't make the call, simply because it's basically impossible for them to be sure that when the ball came to rest on the players hand, the foot was still on the floor.

no they make that call quite often on people not named lebron, wade, or kobe. thats the problem.

[cordobes]

I know the travelling rule that talks about a "two-count rhythm" and I know how the NBA refs are supposed to interpret it, but I've never read that rule you're talking about.

There is no "2 step rule". The 2 count rhythm is the rule and refs go by 2 steps = 2 counts.

No, they don't. There's a reason why you don't see any basketball rules book talking about steps and counting of steps. The definition of a "step" is too uncertain. For example, if a player catches a ball with a foot on the floor, jumps of that foot, lands on his both feet, then jumps again and shoots the ball, how many steps has he given?

How is the jump-stop a violation of the rules? Of what rule, exactly? The jump-stop is and always was allowed everywhere. See rule 10, section XIV, e) - it specifically allows the jump-stop. 

Rule 10, Section XIV, e) states: "A player who comes to a stop on the count of two, with neither foot in advance of the other, may use either foot as the pivot foot."

I don't see anything about jumping and stopping in that part of the rule.

When I say that the "jump-stop" is a violation and was a violation in the NBA back in the early 90's is when a player would dribble and make move...stop his dribble in conjunction with a hop and then land and then go back up again for a shot or pass.

For me, when you leave the floor with ball in your hand and you land without shooting it or passing it (dribble or no dribble) then it is a violation.

This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_mdDBjpNME



is classic example of "jump-stop" violation that wasn't called for a violation. (And is probably legal in today's NBA, but wasn't when Dino Radja was playing)

In today's NBA, players like Iverson, Lebron, Kobe, Wade are allowed to dribble anywhere on the court and "jump-stop" to either go for a layup or a fadeaway jumper.

Now if the NBA and the refs are going to allow the "jump-stop" to be legal or at the very least not call it a violation...then how can a "3rd" measly step by Lebron be called a travel? (It wasn't a 3rd step either!)
[/quote]

Well, but if a player stops at the count of two and still has a pivot foot available, that means the jump-stop is legal...

Look, when a player jumps to catch a ball in the air and then lands on his both feet simultaneously, is that legal? Because that's what a jump-stop is, it's coming to a stop using a jump.

The problem with LeBron in that "crab dribble" was that he didn't land on his both feet at the same time, so he ended up travelling. Had he landed on both feet after jumping off his right foot the first time, the play would be absolutely legal.

That video is a travel violation but I really don't see any attempt to execute a jump-shot.

For me, when you leave the floor with ball in your hand and you land without shooting it or passing it (dribble or no dribble) then it is a violation.

I'm pretty sure you don't really mean what you wrote here. You simply can't travel while dribbling. By definition. I mean, every time a player is running and dribbling, he's leaving the floor with the ball in his hands. Following your view, dribbling would become illegal (except if the players would always keep a foot on the floor).

[cordobes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcFLrSTH6bc

is it me or is this new ad a showing of a clear travel?

To me that can be everything except clear. I watched the play once - in slow motion - and I have doubts if00 it's a travel or not. Of course, I can re-watch it as many times I need till I reach a conclusion.

It's very simple: if he had his dribble picked, if he had control of the ball, when his right foot was on the floor, it was a travel violation by the book. If he didn't, then it wasn't.

However, good luck trying to catch that in real time. In cases like this, NBA refs generally don't make the call, simply because it's basically impossible for them to be sure that when the ball came to rest on the players hand, the foot was still on the floor.

no they make that call quite often on people not named lebron, wade, or kobe. thats the problem.

What about Pierce? I frequently read fans of other teams accusing Pierce of getting away with travels. What about Corey Maggete?

I don't think that in this case I see much favouritism. Now, you put Manu Ginobili and Brian Scalabrine executing the exact same play, with the exact same footwork and what constitutes a blatant travel with Scal becomes difficult to detect when Manu is the one executing it: he's much more quick and fluid. And that certainly affects the way the refs call the game - but that's the way it is.

[crownsy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcFLrSTH6bc

is it me or is this new ad a showing of a clear travel?

To me that can be everything except clear. I watched the play once - in slow motion - and I have doubts if00 it's a travel or not. Of course, I can re-watch it as many times I need till I reach a conclusion.

It's very simple: if he had his dribble picked, if he had control of the ball, when his right foot was on the floor, it was a travel violation by the book. If he didn't, then it wasn't.

However, good luck trying to catch that in real time. In cases like this, NBA refs generally don't make the call, simply because it's basically impossible for them to be sure that when the ball came to rest on the players hand, the foot was still on the floor.

no they make that call quite often on people not named lebron, wade, or kobe. thats the problem.

What about Pierce? I frequently read fans of other teams accusing Pierce of getting away with travels. What about Corey Maggete?

I don't think that in this case I see much favouritism. Now, you put Manu Ginobili and Brian Scalabrine executing the exact same play, with the exact same footwork and what constitutes a blatant travel with Scal becomes difficult to detect when Manu is the one executing it: he's much more quick and fluid. And that certainly affects the way the refs call the game - but that's the way it is.

you complelty missed my point. It doesn't matter who it is, favrotism happens in the NBA more than any other sport. NBA officating is also incompatant, to the point that its mocked by the national media.

We have 70 year old refs trying to keep up with 20 year old speedsters.

we have a complely behind the scenes, no accountablity system.

We have a ref who CHALLANGED A PLAYER TO FIGHT IN THE PARKING LOT. who still has a job.

We have 15 unnamed ref's who viloated the leagues anti gambling policy in the wake of an offical bing caught fixing games who the league decided not to punish or identify, despite claims that they would make there process "transparnt" to prevent another TD.

So no, im not comfrotable giving NBA officting the pass you want to because "its a tough call"

if you cant do your job, which most of the NBA crews can't, you don't deserve to have it anymore. But the nba continues to protect its incomptant crews, so they continue to be a running joke.

[celticswillwin43]

The nba league office is a joke, along with the refs. What a corrupt league.

[cordobes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcFLrSTH6bc

is it me or is this new ad a showing of a clear travel?

To me that can be everything except clear. I watched the play once - in slow motion - and I have doubts if00 it's a travel or not. Of course, I can re-watch it as many times I need till I reach a conclusion.

It's very simple: if he had his dribble picked, if he had control of the ball, when his right foot was on the floor, it was a travel violation by the book. If he didn't, then it wasn't.

However, good luck trying to catch that in real time. In cases like this, NBA refs generally don't make the call, simply because it's basically impossible for them to be sure that when the ball came to rest on the players hand, the foot was still on the floor.

no they make that call quite often on people not named lebron, wade, or kobe. thats the problem.

What about Pierce? I frequently read fans of other teams accusing Pierce of getting away with travels. What about Corey Maggete?

I don't think that in this case I see much favouritism. Now, you put Manu Ginobili and Brian Scalabrine executing the exact same play, with the exact same footwork and what constitutes a blatant travel with Scal becomes difficult to detect when Manu is the one executing it: he's much more quick and fluid. And that certainly affects the way the refs call the game - but that's the way it is.

you complelty missed my point. It doesn't matter who it is, favrotism happens in the NBA more than any other sport. NBA officating is also incompatant, to the point that its mocked by the national media.

We have 70 year old refs trying to keep up with 20 year old speedsters.

we have a complely behind the scenes, no accountablity system.

We have a ref who CHALLANGED A PLAYER TO FIGHT IN THE PARKING LOT. who still has a job.

We have 15 unnamed ref's who viloated the leagues anti gambling policy in the wake of an offical bing caught fixing games who the league decided not to punish or identify, despite claims that they would make there process "transparnt" to prevent another TD.

So no, im not comfrotable giving NBA officting the pass you want to because "its a tough call"

if you cant do your job, which most of the NBA crews can't, you don't deserve to have it anymore. But the nba continues to protect its incomptant crews, so they continue to be a running joke.

Okay, those issues I won't dispute or argue about, but I'll stand by my impression that when it comes specifically to travel violations, I don't feel there's that kind of favoritism - I think the superior footwork and quickness of some players helps them to get away with violations to the rule more than others (Wade abuses of a spin movement where he frequently draws or moves the pivot foot), but that's all. And it happens at every level: in the NCAA, fans say it's the star Coaches or schools that get better calls - just check the amount of youtube videos with alleged travel violations from Duke players you can found. Europe is the same, fans frequently complain that referees benefit the powerhouses (except the fans of the powerhouse in question).

Basketball is very difficult to referee, especially at the higher levels. I mean, there are hundreds of occasions where people disagree about a call after watching the play repeated times in film, in slow-motion and from several perspectives - that's very revealing about how difficult is the job of the referees.

That said, certainly the NBA can do a lot better in regards to officiating issues and there are some judges whose current competence is very suspect.

[crownsy]

yea, i think were on the same page there. It's not the rulebook i have a problem with, its the crew enforcing it at this time, because i don't think they are up to the task.

There are much, much better ref's available both in the college and European ranks that 6-10 of the known horrid officials in the NBA could be replaced with, and the game would be better for it.

[PJ Martinez]

In case anyone's interested, here's what the rulebook actually says:

    A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may use a two-count rhythm in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball. The first count occurs:

        (1) As he receives the ball, if either foot is touching the floor at the time he receives it.
        (2) As the foot touches the floor, or as both feet touch the floor simultaneously after he receives the ball, if both feet are off the floor when he receives it.

    The second occurs:

        (1) After the count of one when either foot touches the floor, or both feet touch the floor simultaneously.

Huh? If you ask me, they should definitely rewrite this so it actually, you know, makes sense.

[kozlodoev]

In case anyone's interested, here's what the rulebook actually says:

    A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may use a two-count rhythm in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball. The first count occurs:

        (1) As he receives the ball, if either foot is touching the floor at the time he receives it.
        (2) As the foot touches the floor, or as both feet touch the floor simultaneously after he receives the ball, if both feet are off the floor when he receives it.

    The second occurs:

        (1) After the count of one when either foot touches the floor, or both feet touch the floor simultaneously.

Huh? If you ask me, they should definitely rewrite this so it actually, you know, makes sense.

This is just an extremely clumsy way of saying, "You can take 2 steps if you have a pivot foot established, 2 steps if you don't".