Rebuild and Stay Competitive (For those who enjoy this type of thing only)

[Fan from VT]

On ESPN today:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=TradeWatch-090224

1. Vince Carter, Nets
The Nets were very close to moving Carter at the deadline. How close? One source told me the Nets agreed to send two future firsts (Dallas' and Golden State's) along with Carter to the Blazers for Raef LaFrentz. The Blazers, however, turned them down.

Expect the Nets to pick up the trade talks again this summer. They need to clear Carter's salary off their books.

So let's say New Jersey stays this desperate into the offseason. Considering they were ready to pay someone just to get an expiring deal, what if this offseason just before the draft we dangle Ray's expiring deal. However, because Ray is still a very valuable player and G.S.'s pick is top 14 protected in '11, top 11 protected in '12 and top 10 protected in '13 (and turns into 2 second rounders if the protections keep the pick from being dealt), we tweak the deal as follows:
Ray Allen for Carter, Najera, Dallas '10 first rounder, G.S. first rounder OR, if that pick never transfers, NJ's first rounder in '13. This simply guarantees that the C's either receive G.S.'s first rounder by 2013 or in 2013 they get NJ's #1. Thus the deal becomes Ray for Carter, Najera, and 2 future firsts.

Why the Nets do it:
They were ready to give this deal away for Raef's expiring deal; because Allen is an actual player, NJ has to up the deal to include an additional guaranteed #1, not just G.S.'s probable #1.

Why the Celtics do it:
It is impossible for the Celtics to add anything more than an MLE free agent for the next few years.This is true even if Ray stays, even if he signs a generous discount. Carter's money goes until either Pierce's or KG's does (depending on the team option), so once those players are officially done, they all come off the books together. Carter is not too different a player from Ray at this point, but is one year younger, and the picks allow the Celtics to infuse some higher quality (read: not second round) youth into the lineup. Let Scal and TA walk, and this salary drop, along with KG's salary decrease, means the Celtics' payroll remains stable for the next few years while allowing room for Rondo and Powe to get extensions.

If this is too good a deal for NJ (since Carter and Allen are about even, and NJ was ready to just pay Portland to take Carter for expiring money), it could be tweaked to include either Dooling (better player) or Trenton Hassell (shorter contract) instead of Najera, or include Boone (legit size, youth) in the deal.

[Roy Hobbs]

In terms of talent, it's a good deal.

However, Ray Allen is 1000 times better as a teammate than Vince Carter, and I'd much rather have Ray on my team, draft picks be [dang]ed.

[Who]

I don't believe that report from Chad Ford. I think he's misinformed.

[guava_wrench]

Keep in mind that they would not have had any financial responsibility for Raef next year had they made the deal. The Allen deal would still leave them on the hook for next year's salary.

If their #1 concern is saving money, this affects what deals they would consider.

[wdleehi]

Keep in mind that they would not have had any financial responsibility for Raef next year had they made the deal. The Allen deal would still leave them on the hook for next year's salary.

If their #1 concern is saving money, this affects what deals they would consider.

It gets money off their board in time for Lebron.



As for the Celtics, they would have to do it.

[D Dub]

Wanna stay competative?  Don't break up the starting lineup for the next 4 seasons.

[Fan from VT]

Keep in mind that they would not have had any financial responsibility for Raef next year had they made the deal. The Allen deal would still leave them on the hook for next year's salary.

If their #1 concern is saving money, this affects what deals they would consider.

Right, but because this year's deadline already passed, they are on the hook for next year's Carter salary no matter what; the best they can do is remove the following years, unless they convince a team that is 15 million under the cap to take carter in a trade and take no players in return. but i don't see such a team (memphis) doing that.

[Fan from VT]

Wanna stay competative?  Don't break up the starting lineup for the next 4 seasons.

Ok. Let's hope that Allen, Pierce, and KG are the first people to remain top 30 nba level players at the ages of 35, 36, and 37.

[CoachBo]

Lordy.

On a day when Marbury comes closer to a green uniform, we're talking adding Vince Carter?

I'm gonna need heart medication.

 

[Jon]

Terrible idea.  I understand the appeal, but we simply shouldn't break up the Big Three, particularly for a life long lose like Carter.  As Garnett's injury just reminded us, our success is temoral: it won't last forever.  If Carter takes a hear to adjust, Garnett and Pierce may decline enough so that they can't win a title.  Cleveland also may actually get an ever better supporting cast for LeBron and the Lakers might actually find a way to keep Bynum healthy, making the new Big Three obsolete. 

Everything should be focused on winning now.  While in a perfect world it would be nice to find a way to segue into the future, if doing so jeopardizes the team's current playoff chances, it isn't worth it. 

Let's also pause to be honest with ourselves for a second.  No matter what Ainge does, when the Big Three leave, there's going to be some sort of decline on this team.  If keeping the Big Three together means that that dip is a couple 30 win seasons rather than a couple 2nd round playoff exits, that's fine by me. 

[tenn_smoothie]

Wanna stay competative?  Don't break up the starting lineup for the next 4 seasons.

thank you.

what is wrong with celtic fans. ray allen is only our most consistent player this season. his great outside shooting makes this team good in so many ways and he is a very solid citizen ...... how easy it is to take these things for granted.

[SCBirdman]

Not a good idea, imo. Ray Allen has been our best and most consistent player this season. With KG out, you now see the Ray Allen of old, the score first Ray.

Ray is still a stud. Vince Carter is a dud. Carter is slefish, injury prone and his crazy hops are disappearing by the minute. I would much rather have Ray and his deadly 3 pt shooting, not to mention his leadership in the locker room.

The Celtics knew the ramifications of making these deals for the future. The future was mortgaged for the present. Hopefully one day, we will be able to rebuild through the draft and free agency, but for the foreseeable future, its going to be more of the same.

Mid-level exeption, minor trade interest, and late February veteran pickups after buyout.

[Michael Anthony]

I have been thinking about this for a while, and may post separately in more detail, but the key to any rebuilding effort is acquiring a big man. Rondo, Perk, and Young KG Replacement is one decent wing away from contending - and maybe that wing is already with the team!

I propose sending Ray to Golden State for Maggette, Crawford, and Randolph.

From a cap perspective, Scal/TA come off in time to resign Rondo. Crawford comes off in time to resign Perk. Maggette comes off in time to resign Walker. Garnett comes off in time to resign Randolph. In this scenario, you expect House to opt out (instead of riding the bench), and the C's to resign Pruitt for $700k. This all works very well cap-wise.

This team makes a lot of sense on the court too:

Rondo / Crawford / Pruitt
Maggette / Giddens / Allen
Pierce / Walker
Garnett / Randolph
Perkins / Scalabrine

Maybe look for a Skinner/Magloire type third center and an undersized power forward in the draft to round out the bench. Our 1-8 are elite and our 9-12 give Doc some matchup options and solid depth.

[thebirdman]

If they buy out Ray Allen after the traded and he returns than yes...

[Change]

I have been thinking about this for a while, and may post separately in more detail, but the key to any rebuilding effort is acquiring a big man. Rondo, Perk, and Young KG Replacement is one decent wing away from contending - and maybe that wing is already with the team!

I propose sending Ray to Golden State for Maggette, Crawford, and Randolph.

From a cap perspective, Scal/TA come off in time to resign Rondo. Crawford comes off in time to resign Perk. Maggette comes off in time to resign Walker. Garnett comes off in time to resign Randolph. In this scenario, you expect House to opt out (instead of riding the bench), and the C's to resign Pruitt for $700k. This all works very well cap-wise.

This team makes a lot of sense on the court too:

Rondo / Crawford / Pruitt
Maggette / Giddens / Allen
Pierce / Walker
Garnett / Randolph
Perkins / Scalabrine

Maybe look for a Skinner/Magloire type third center and an undersized power forward in the draft to round out the bench. Our 1-8 are elite and our 9-12 give Doc some matchup options and solid depth.

Are you insane? We won a championship & you guys already want to dismantle the team. You want to trade a HOF for bunch of losers. This team is build just right, we have our superstars (KG, PP, & Ray) and some of the best role players (Perk, Rondo, Powe, & BBD). We can worry about rebuilding after our 3peat.

Ainge probably kicking his PC hearing how celtics fan want to kick out the soon to be All-time 3point leader.

Read this thread: http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=26323.0