Author Topic: Lakers vs. Celtics: Which is the Greatest NBA Franchise?  (Read 26245 times)

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Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Which is the Greatest NBA Franchise?
« Reply #45 on: February 24, 2009, 03:03:35 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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But would you trade 3 titles for the opportunity to win 9 titles?

Sure I would.  From my perspective, losing in the Finals sucks as a fan just as much as losing in the first round, or missing the playoffs all together.  I mean, yes, you enjoy the ride up until the point that it's over, but ultimately, it's all about who wins, isn't it?

I judge success in sports in terms of most titles won.  Thus, the most successful franchises in the four major sports are the Yankees, Canadiens, Celtics, and Steelers.  I couldn't tell you who has the best regular season winning percentage in their respective sports, which one lost in the championship game the most, or how many times each franchise missed the playoffs.  I can, however, tell you that they won 26, 24, 17, and 6 titles.


Roy not to pick but you forgot Green Bay  ;D
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Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Which is the Greatest NBA Franchise?
« Reply #46 on: February 24, 2009, 03:04:22 PM »

Online JSD

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This article doesn't consider:

1. Celtics competition VS. the Lakers Competition... Lakers won 29 Western conference titles because the West was an annual joke. The proof is in the pudding when you consider they are 14-15 against the EAST and 2-9 against the C's. The East has always had better teams. Philly, Detroit, Chicago ect...

2. The death of Reggie Lewis and Len Bias. With the league insisting that the Celtics take a cap hit.

3. Free agency, Laker locational advantage... Warm weather, movies... The lakers won 3 titles because shaq wanted to make films.

4. The "Los Angeles Lakers" have only won 9 titles... Don't be fooled there are no lakes in LA. 17 > 9

5. The compressed talent that comes along with a league with only 8-10 teams in it... Celtics faced a player who averaged 50 ppg and another who averaged a triple double for an entire season.
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Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Which is the Greatest NBA Franchise?
« Reply #47 on: February 24, 2009, 03:04:38 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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But would you trade 3 titles for the opportunity to win 9 titles?

Sure I would.  From my perspective, losing in the Finals sucks as a fan just as much as losing in the first round, or missing the playoffs all together.  I mean, yes, you enjoy the ride up until the point that it's over, but ultimately, it's all about who wins, isn't it?

I judge success in sports in terms of most titles won.  Thus, the most successful franchises in the four major sports are the Yankees, Canadiens, Celtics, and Steelers.  I couldn't tell you who has the best regular season winning percentage in their respective sports, which one lost in the championship game the most, or how many times each franchise missed the playoffs.  I can, however, tell you that they won 26, 24, 17, and 6 titles.


Roy not to pick but you forgot Green Bay

Yeah, fafnir mentioned that.  I'm counting post-merger titles.

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Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Which is the Greatest NBA Franchise?
« Reply #48 on: February 24, 2009, 03:26:00 PM »

Offline CoachCowens

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This article doesn't consider:

1. Celtics competition VS. the Lakers Competition... Lakers won 29 Western conference titles because the West was an annual joke. The proof is in the pudding when you consider they are 14-15 against the EAST and 2-9 against the C's. The East has always had better teams. Philly, Detroit, Chicago ect...

2. The death of Reggie Lewis and Len Bias. With the league insisting that the Celtics take a cap hit.

3. Free agency, Laker locational advantage... Warm weather, movies... The lakers won 3 titles because shaq wanted to make films.

4. The "Los Angeles Lakers" have only won 9 titles... Don't be fooled there are no lakes in LA. 17 > 9

5. The compressed talent that comes along with a league with only 8-10 teams in it... Celtics faced a player who averaged 50 ppg and another who averaged a triple double for an entire season.


Officiating also has favored the Lakers.

Prime example is the 2002 western conf. finals against the Kings. If the officials hadn't blatantly given the series to the Fakers they never would have gotten that title.

On the other hand the C's had to play 5 on 8 against the Hawks last year.

Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Which is the Greatest NBA Franchise?
« Reply #49 on: February 24, 2009, 03:27:19 PM »

Offline crownsy

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Here are a few stats:

Since 1948-49 (the first year of the Lakers existence):

-The Lakers have missed the playoffs 5 times.
-The Celtics have missed the playoffs 15 times.

-The Lakers have been in 29 Finals.
-The Celtics have been in 20 Finals.

Sure the Celtics have more Finals wins (17 to 14), but the difference (3) isn't that large compared to the above differences.

(I'm just reporting the facts here... ;))

if your only going by results since the've been in LA, its 17 > 9.
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Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Which is the Greatest NBA Franchise?
« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2009, 03:57:14 PM »

Offline CoachCowens

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Can we count the Original Celtics championships before the NBA came into existence?  I think it's only fair if the Fakers get the Minneapolis years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_Celtics

« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 07:10:37 PM by CoachCowens »

Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Which is the Greatest NBA Franchise?
« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2009, 03:59:37 PM »

Offline bostonfan23

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Can we count the Original Celtics championships before the NBA came into existence?  I think it's only fair if the Fakers get the Minneapolis years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_Celtics

Not sure if you're not being serious, but the first line of that entry is that they have no relation to the Boston Celtics.

Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Which is the Greatest NBA Franchise?
« Reply #52 on: February 24, 2009, 04:11:34 PM »

Offline CoachCowens

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Can we count the Original Celtics championships before the NBA came into existence?  I think it's only fair if the Fakers get the Minneapolis years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_Celtics

Not sure if you're not being serious, but the first line of that entry is that they have no relation to the Boston Celtics.

That can easily be fixed. It is wikipedia. :)


Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Which is the Greatest NBA Franchise?
« Reply #53 on: February 24, 2009, 04:15:23 PM »

Offline EarthBall

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I guess I should question whether my birth certificate that says I am born in Boston, Massachusetts is forged.

I sorta agree with you about Yankees fans (and now Red Sox fans to a lesser degree). But it isn't nearly as big a problem in the other cities you listed. The Yankees 'win a championship or bust' philosophy has almost ruined baseball for me. 

Ultimately, isn't that what you want your favorite team? Teams like the Yankees and to a lesser extent the Patriots (within the limits of the cap) and the Celtics with Wyc and the ownership group best exemplify this. As a paying fan, you want to know that the team ownership is doing everything in their power to remain in contention (cough cough Mr. Jacobs). 

Yes, of course I want my team to win. But if they don't win, yet they do everything they can to win, that doesn't mean the season is ruined. If it's championship or bust, why do so many fans watch their teams when the championship is out of reach? I'd hope it is some combination of enjoying the game and watching the team develop into a championship team over time. One losing season doesn't mean failure if it is part of a larger goal.

Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Which is the Greatest NBA Franchise?
« Reply #54 on: February 24, 2009, 04:22:59 PM »

Offline adam8

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 One losing season doesn't mean failure if it is part of a larger goal.
What is the larger goal? I would think that the larger goal is winning a championship because I don't think there are any teams that try build a team so they can lose in the championship. It is not necessarily championship or bust every year but the ultimate goal is a championship so that should be what the judgements of better franchise are made on.

Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Which is the Greatest NBA Franchise?
« Reply #55 on: February 24, 2009, 04:31:47 PM »

Offline EarthBall

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 One losing season doesn't mean failure if it is part of a larger goal.
What is the larger goal? I would think that the larger goal is winning a championship because I don't think there are any teams that try build a team so they can lose in the championship. It is not necessarily championship or bust every year but the ultimate goal is a championship so that should be what the judgements of better franchise are made on.

Yes, the larger goal is a winning a championship. All I am saying is that determining which franchise is most successful isn't so black and white. Championships certainly carry the most weight, but you need to factor in the other losing seasons.

Consider two teams A and B that have played 10 seasons:
-Team A has won 5 championships, but missed the playoffs during the other 5 seasons.
-Team B has won 3 championships, made the Finals 4 other
times and never missed the playoffs.

Which team is more successful over those 10 seasons? I don't know the answer, but I don't think it is as easy as saying that Team A has more championships, therefore Team A is the better team. That is all I am saying.

Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Which is the Greatest NBA Franchise?
« Reply #56 on: February 24, 2009, 04:50:37 PM »

Offline crownsy

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I think it is that easy, so we will have to agree to disagree.

I would have gotten enjoyment out of team B, to be sure, but i'd rather have the 5 championship seasons.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Which is the Greatest NBA Franchise?
« Reply #57 on: February 24, 2009, 05:48:58 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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 One losing season doesn't mean failure if it is part of a larger goal.
What is the larger goal? I would think that the larger goal is winning a championship because I don't think there are any teams that try build a team so they can lose in the championship. It is not necessarily championship or bust every year but the ultimate goal is a championship so that should be what the judgements of better franchise are made on.

Yes, the larger goal is a winning a championship. All I am saying is that determining which franchise is most successful isn't so black and white. Championships certainly carry the most weight, but you need to factor in the other losing seasons.

Consider two teams A and B that have played 10 seasons:
-Team A has won 5 championships, but missed the playoffs during the other 5 seasons.
-Team B has won 3 championships, made the Finals 4 other
times and never missed the playoffs.

Which team is more successful over those 10 seasons? I don't know the answer, but I don't think it is as easy as saying that Team A has more championships, therefore Team A is the better team. That is all I am saying.


Team A is, especially if it won most of its championships over Team B.

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Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Which is the Greatest NBA Franchise?
« Reply #58 on: February 24, 2009, 06:04:56 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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really is there any question? the fact the lakers claim titles from minnesota is a joke...boston then everyone else

Re: Lakers vs. Celtics: Which is the Greatest NBA Franchise?
« Reply #59 on: February 24, 2009, 06:49:58 PM »

Offline MattG12

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Is this a joke?  ???