My son says "Kobe's a nice guy".

[Roy Hobbs]

there's a woman in Colorado who disagrees.

and there's evidence and a Justice system who says that woman is a liar.  Sorry, I'll stand by the facts and the law in this one.

How so?  Kobe issued an apology, stipulated to probable cause, and paid a cash settlement.  How is that "the law" saying that the "woman is a liar"?

You can believe whatever side you want in that case, but the court didn't reach any adjudication on the merits.  It's essentially a "he said, she said", where "he" apologized and paid some amount of hush money.

(As for the legal system, it's not exactly infallible.  The guilty people aren't always convicted, as I'm sure many people watching the O.J. trial would agree.)

[BballTim]

If I was your son I would have punched him in his face.

  Punching someone in the face is not cool.

  Go with the head butt.

[TatteredOnMySleeve]

Kobe could be the nicest guy on the face of the planet and I still wouldnt like him...

[BrickJames]

there's a woman in Colorado who disagrees.

and there's evidence and a Justice system who says that woman is a liar.  Sorry, I'll stand by the facts and the law in this one.

How so?  Kobe issued an apology, stipulated to probable cause, and paid a cash settlement.  How is that "the law" saying that the "woman is a liar"?

You can believe whatever side you want in that case, but the court didn't reach any adjudication on the merits.  It's essentially a "he said, she said", where "he" apologized and paid some amount of hush money.

(As for the legal system, it's not exactly infallible.  The guilty people aren't always convicted, as I'm sure many people watching the O.J. trial would agree.)

As someone who professes to be a lawyer, I'm surprised you are not a staunch supporter of "innocent until proven guilty".

Quite frankly, I'm sick of all the "rapist" nonsense.  There are plenty of verbal accounts of the type of woman this girl was, and even precedent of her pulling this kind of shenanigans in the past.  Girl who called wolf?  It is ridiculous to hold Kobe accountable for something that he didn't do.

Sure, he admitted his stupidity for putting himself into that situation - no doubt some sort of sexual altercation ensued - but, rape?  C'mon now.


Here's a first hand account of a superstar being human and a nice guy and people basically respond with trollish responses.


edit: my mistake - that case was settled in court as you note - my "liar" rhetoric is way off base.  still, my general point is valid.

[FLCeltsFan]

Haha regardless of any animosity we have towards Kobe, we would still be psyched to see him at the gym.

No, honestly, I can say that I wouldn't be.  The loathing I have for Kobe goes well beyond the fact that he plays for a rival team.

My sentiments exactly.  TP for expressing it so eloquently!

[SShorefan 4.0]

there's a woman in Colorado who disagrees.

and there's evidence and a Justice system who says that woman is a liar.  Sorry, I'll stand by the facts and the law in this one.

How so?  Kobe issued an apology, stipulated to probable cause, and paid a cash settlement.  How is that "the law" saying that the "woman is a liar"?

You can believe whatever side you want in that case, but the court didn't reach any adjudication on the merits.  It's essentially a "he said, she said", where "he" apologized and paid some amount of hush money.

(As for the legal system, it's not exactly infallible.  The guilty people aren't always convicted, as I'm sure many people watching the O.J. trial would agree.)

As someone who professes to be a lawyer, I'm surprised you are not a staunch supporter of "innocent until proven guilty".

Quite frankly, I'm sick of all the "rapist" nonsense.  There are plenty of verbal accounts of the type of woman this girl was, and even precedent of her pulling this kind of shenanigans in the past.  Girl who called wolf?  It is ridiculous to hold Kobe accountable for something that he didn't do.

Sure, he admitted his stupidity for putting himself into that situation - no doubt some sort of sexual altercation ensued - but, rape?  C'mon now.


Here's a first hand account of a superstar being human and a nice guy and people basically respond with trollish responses.


edit: my mistake - that case was settled in court as you note - my "liar" rhetoric is way off base.  still, my general point is valid.

[Roy Hobbs]

there's a woman in Colorado who disagrees.

and there's evidence and a Justice system who says that woman is a liar.  Sorry, I'll stand by the facts and the law in this one.

How so?  Kobe issued an apology, stipulated to probable cause, and paid a cash settlement.  How is that "the law" saying that the "woman is a liar"?

You can believe whatever side you want in that case, but the court didn't reach any adjudication on the merits.  It's essentially a "he said, she said", where "he" apologized and paid some amount of hush money.

(As for the legal system, it's not exactly infallible.  The guilty people aren't always convicted, as I'm sure many people watching the O.J. trial would agree.)

As someone who professes to be a lawyer, I'm surprised you are not a staunch supporter of "innocent until proven guilty".

Quite frankly, I'm sick of all the "rapist" nonsense.  There are plenty of verbal accounts of the type of woman this girl was, and even precedent of her pulling this kind of shenanigans in the past.  Girl who called wolf?  It is ridiculous to hold Kobe accountable for something that he didn't do.

Sure, he admitted his stupidity for putting himself into that situation - no doubt some sort of sexual altercation ensued - but, rape?  C'mon now.


Here's a first hand account of a superstar being human and a nice guy and people basically respond with trollish responses.

There's a difference between legally innocent and morally innocent.  Just because somebody isn't prosecuted, or in the case of O.J. is acquitted, doesn't mean that somebody has to believe they're truly innocent.  Also, I hate to shatter any allusions, but not all attorneys think our current legal system is perfect.  Just like I don't have to accept that somebody who is "proven guilty" is truly guilty, I don't have to accept that somebody not so proven is innocent.

Based upon your two responses thus far, it's pretty clear to me that you didn't follow the case at all.  I'm not going to sit here and argue with somebody who only heard bits and pieces through the media. 

Also, regardless of whether Kobe in fact is a rapist, I took SSF4.0's comment to say that the alleged victim wouldn't find Kobe to be a nice guy.  Based upon all that ensued, I think that's a fairly accurate statement.  I'm sure Kobe's wife wasn't thinking he was an overly moral guy, either, even when taking Kobe's story at face value.

[Hoyo de Monterrey]

time for little agneta to go the way of old yeller 

[BrickJames]

Neither your responses are worthy of a real reply from me either.  Seeya.

[NoraG1]

Fact is if you have enough money you can get away with anything. Ask OJ.

[SShorefan 4.0]

Neither your responses are worthy of a real reply from me either.  Seeya.

Brick,

I will lay the cards on the table.  I had a female friend of mine who was raped.  Raped.  She filed a report and it became a he said / she said and the legal system said there wasn't enough to go on (she had waited two days before filing so there was no "physical evidence").

To take your argument, legally the attack never happened.  But the ongoing fear happened, the change in personality happened, the shame happened, the continual crying happened, the doubt happened and the need for help happened.  And think, none of this was in the public spotlight.

Regarding my initial post, I made no reference to rape, but I am now.  I believe Kobe is a rapist just as I know the guy who raped my friend is a rapist.  Kobe is not a nice guy, Kobe is a smooth talking bully and I have no place for him. 

Defend Kobe on a legality stand point if you'd like, but on a morality standpoint he's the lowest of the low and no diamond ring will make me change my mind.

[Edgar]

this is all Kobe can get from me

[BrickJames]

My condolences to your friend.  I'm sure that was a terrible experience that is with her to this day.

That said, I have a very close friend in college who was accused of rape.  Accused.  He was banging this girl on the regular, and then, something better came along, she started getting a little crazy, and he dropped her like a bad habit.  She couldn't handle the reality of the fact that he didn't want to spend the rest of his life with her, so she flipped out and started making things up, spreading rumors around a not-very-large campus.  She couldn't have him, so she started doing anything in her power to make him regret his expression of free will.  While it wasn't the national media, news spread quickly and definitely blemished this guy's reputation.  It wasn't based in fact and quite frankly was a pretty low thing to do.

I'm sure you see where I'm going.  Kobe is called a "rapist" because some white trash kook decided to flip out when she realized her one night stand was going to end that night.  She knew she could play the victim and extort a worldwide superstar for some loot.  To this day, people looking for an excuse to hate on an extremely talented individual grab for straws and ascribe labels (on the interwebs) that could be interpreted as libel should they be in any real (i.e. print) media.

That's all I'm saying.

No statistical arguments to fabricate an anti-Kobe argument in this case, so people resort to saying I "clearly" don't know what I'm talking about.

I'm really done with this thread now.  Thanks for reading.

Neither your responses are worthy of a real reply from me either.  Seeya.

Brick,

I will lay the cards on the table.  I had a female friend of mine who was raped.  Raped.  She filed a report and it became a he said / she said and the legal system said there wasn't enough to go on (she had waited two days before filing so there was no "physical evidence").

To take your argument, legally the attack never happened.  But the ongoing fear happened, the change in personality happened, the shame happened, the continual crying happened, the doubt happened and the need for help happened.  And think, none of this was in the public spotlight.

Regarding my initial post, I made no reference to rape, but I am now.  I believe Kobe is a rapist just as I know the guy who raped my friend is a rapist.  Kobe is not a nice guy, Kobe is a smooth talking bully and I have no place for him. 

Defend Kobe on a legality stand point if you'd like, but on a morality standpoint he's the lowest of the low and no diamond ring will make me change my mind.

[Redz]

Wow, this sure shifted from a fun story to a heavy debate in no time.

[SShorefan 4.0]

I'm sure you see where I'm going.  Kobe is called a "rapist" because some white trash kook decided to flip out when she realized her one night stand was going to end that night.  She knew she could play the victim and extort a worldwide superstar for some loot.  To this day, people looking for an excuse to hate on an extremely talented individual grab for straws and ascribe labels (on the interwebs) that could be interpreted as libel should they be in any real (i.e. print) media.

Honestly, I am disgusted and repulsed. 

You truly have no idea about the facts about this case for if you did there is no sane way you'd use the verbiage you use. 

The "Blame the victim" anger you are showing is disturbing.