Lebron vs Kobe

[BrickJames]

I think it's Kobe, and I don't think it's that close.

Fixed.

[Roy Hobbs]

I think it's Kobe, and I don't think it's that close.

Fixed.

As I said, besides scoring, finishing, rebounding, passing, defense, leadership, and team success, I think it's Kobe all the way.

[BrickJames]

I think it's Kobe, and I don't think it's that close.

Fixed.

As I said, besides scoring, finishing, rebounding, passing, defense, leadership, and team success, I think it's Kobe all the way.

Agree to disagree.  LeBron gets credit for how "smart" he is.  I guarantee you if I had his body, and the treatment from the refs he gets, I'd average 85 points a game.  No joke.  He takes the worst shots for no good reason.

It also ticks me off how LeBron cries bloody murder every time he gets hit or falls to the floor.  Total LeBaby.

Last, LeBron is not really a good passer.  He's good at passing to wide open people, but he hardly creates the angle.  The angle creates itself due to his mesmerizm of the opposing defense - everyone just sits around and watches him dribble 20 seconds off the shot clock and someone sneaks back door for an easy layup...or he posts up and kicks out to a 3 point shooter with about 15 feet of room to shoot the ball.  That is not skill in my opinion. 

So, shooting, clutchness, defense (help-side blocks, no matter how "emphatic", don't really impress me as defense, just athleticism), BBIQ, and TEAM SUCCESS (3 rings and 5 finals appearance VS getting sweeped in the finals), definitely Kobe.

And as maestro said I can't stand either of these guys but Kobe's simply better.  LeBron is just a freak of nature (no way that's natural either, I'm sorry).

[KG Living Legend]

Just need to add one thing to the debate.  When Lebron checked pierce the other day. Pierce could do nothing. We are the big two when Bron is on Pierce.

Kobe can't do that in L.A., Boston or Mars.

Lebron is the best one on one defender in the NBA, and he doesn't suck at help D either.

[Tr1boy]

James is ahead of kobe . They are two great players and both have their weaknesses and pluses vs each other. Yet you can't put kobe in every team in the league and expect that team could even make the playoffs. With lebron put him in the lowly clippers or grizzlies lineup and they would be considered easily a playoff contender.

Not since jordan have i seen a player as dominant as james on both ends of the court

[Steve Weinman]

I think it's Kobe, and I don't think it's that close.

Fixed.

As I said, besides scoring, finishing, rebounding, passing, defense, leadership, and team success, I think it's Kobe all the way.

help-side blocks, no matter how "emphatic", don't really impress me as defense

Brick, you know I love ya, but I think you're stretching it a bit here.  Regarding the defense issue above, what'd you think of the job LeBron did on Paul on Friday?  That's the type of player he has been on his way to becoming all season.  I think we're only going to see that sort of defensive effort from him on a more consistent basis going forward.

As for clutchness, Kobe's certainly been around longer and has a great sample size...but I might throw LeBron a bone for taking his team to a Finals practically all by his lonesome and then nearly leading the Cavs to an upset over the Celts a season ago.  Has Kobe ever come up with a more clutch single-game effort in as big a spot as what LBJ did in Game 5 of the 2007 ECFs?

As for the passing claim, I'm really not sure what to tell you.  He routinely creates easy buckets for his teammates, and he does it with far more regularity than Kobe does...what more do you want from him in this regard?

-sw

[Roy Hobbs]

In terms of "clutchness", Lebron has led the entire NBA in "clutch" scoring the past two seasons.  This season, he's also third in "clutch" rebounding, and sixth in "clutch" assists.

Importantly for this conversation, Lebron outscores, outshoots, out-rebounds, out-assists, out-steals, and out-blocks Kobe in such situations, and he's done so two years running.  Lebron elevates his game in crunch time like no other player in the NBA.

Links: 2009 / 2008 / 2008 "super clutch"

[BrickJames]

Steve,
 I've said it before: I think Pierce is hurt.  He didn't do much against LA, either (although wasn't it in LA that he got more hurt - when did he hurt his other knee most recently?)  Anyways, LeBron is a good defender, but Kobe has been all-defense several times and some people's claim that the comparison between Kobe and LeBron "is not close" is a fallacy, in my own opinion.

  For clutchness, LeBron's performance in that game 7 was great: but did he win the game?  What mean clutch shots (not games) has LeBrick made in his career?  Not just buzzer beaters, but game sealers?  I'm not sure it's very many.  Kobe is also a much better free-throw shooter, but LeBron is improving.  I'd rather have Kobe as my go-to guy at the end of a game than LeBron, especially because Kobe is less reliant on officiating in terms of getting off a quality shot.  LeBron's bulldozing drives to the basket and/or crab dribbles are always subject to interpretation.

  I just hate his game, because he should be a lot better than he is.  He has the tools, but it's almost like watching Antoine on steroids (literally?) in terms of the decision making on the floor.  I don't like Kobe much either, but I respect his game as he is without question the closest thing to Jordan since Jordan.  I have said before you swap those two players (but Kobe in Jordan's time and Jordan here now), they are the exact same player in terms of skill and ability.

  What more can LeBron do?  How about walk on water?

  Now if you'll excuse me, I need to take three large steps across the room and hop into bed.

[BrickJames]

In terms of "clutchness", Lebron has led the entire NBA in "clutch" scoring the past two seasons.  This season, he's also third in "clutch" rebounding, and sixth in "clutch" assists.

Importantly for this conversation, Lebron outscores, outshoots, out-rebounds, out-assists, out-steals, and out-blocks Kobe in such situations, and he's done so two years running.  Lebron elevates his game in crunch time like no other player in the NBA.

Links: 2009 / 2008 / 2008 "super clutch"

Clutch statistics?  5 minutes left?  Now I've seen it all.

Edit: Posey's like 90th on that list.  I guess he's not clutch then. 

[Roy Hobbs]

In terms of "clutchness", Lebron has led the entire NBA in "clutch" scoring the past two seasons.  This season, he's also third in "clutch" rebounding, and sixth in "clutch" assists.

Importantly for this conversation, Lebron outscores, outshoots, out-rebounds, out-assists, out-steals, and out-blocks Kobe in such situations, and he's done so two years running.  Lebron elevates his game in crunch time like no other player in the NBA.

Links: 2009 / 2008 / 2008 "super clutch"

Clutch statistics?  5 minutes left?  Now I've seen it all.

Those statistics directly contradict your statement that "I'd rather have Kobe as my go-to guy at the end of a game than LeBron..."  I'm assuming that's why you're disregarding them.

[BrickJames]

In terms of "clutchness", Lebron has led the entire NBA in "clutch" scoring the past two seasons.  This season, he's also third in "clutch" rebounding, and sixth in "clutch" assists.

Importantly for this conversation, Lebron outscores, outshoots, out-rebounds, out-assists, out-steals, and out-blocks Kobe in such situations, and he's done so two years running.  Lebron elevates his game in crunch time like no other player in the NBA.

Links: 2009 / 2008 / 2008 "super clutch"

Clutch statistics?  5 minutes left?  Now I've seen it all.

Those statistics directly contradict your statement that "I'd rather have Kobe as my go-to guy at the end of a game than LeBron..."  I'm assuming that's why you're disregarding them.

If you read my last three posts you might actually see my argument.

Actually, you're right - that's exactly why.     You win.  Praise be to Bron.

[MMacOH]

Guaranteed Brick would think that Lebron is the best in the NBA if he was on the Celtics and not the Cavs

[ManUp]

I think it's Lebron, and I don't think it's that close.

I've been saying this since last year when the argument came up with friends. It was pretty obvious last year, and it's even more obvious this year. Sure Kobe is more skilled, and has a more complete game, but Lebron's production is just better in almost every statistical category. Lebron's less talented teams have been just as successful as Kobe's.

[KCattheStripe]

Kobe isn't even the best two guard in the NBA, why is this the discussion?

[crownsy]

Kobe isn't even the best two guard in the NBA, why is this the discussion?

really? who's the better 2?