Author Topic: Raptors/Celtics: worth the gamble??????  (Read 9350 times)

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Raptors/Celtics: worth the gamble??????
« on: January 10, 2009, 11:49:42 AM »

Offline csfansince60s

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This works on the trade checker:

Boston trades:   Ray
                 Scal
                 BBD
Toronto trades:  JO
                 Bargnani

Why for us:     Big man and shooting problems solved, Bargnani's future looking brighter
Why NOT for us: Gamble on JO's health may be too much to swallow,no 2010 cap relief

Why for Toronto: Out from under JO's contract. Giving up Bargnani may cause them pause, but in 2010, they can resign Bosh and still be a player in the market

Is this too much of a gamble for us? Does Toronto even consider this? Flame away, guys. This is my first trade proposal, so be gentle.



Re: Raptors/Celtics: worth the gamble??????
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2009, 01:24:44 PM »

Offline cordobes

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I don't like this trade for us at all, but Toronto wouldn't even consider this.

JO contract ends in 2010, btw.

Re: Raptors/Celtics: worth the gamble??????
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2009, 02:21:56 PM »

Offline Change

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This works on the trade checker:

Boston trades:   Ray
                 Scal
                 BBD
Toronto trades:  JO
                 Bargnani

Why for us:     Big man and shooting problems solved, Bargnani's future looking brighter
Why NOT for us: Gamble on JO's health may be too much to swallow,no 2010 cap relief

Why for Toronto: Out from under JO's contract. Giving up Bargnani may cause them pause, but in 2010, they can resign Bosh and still be a player in the market

Is this too much of a gamble for us? Does Toronto even consider this? Flame away, guys. This is my first trade proposal, so be gentle.



Nice try, Tor would trade TO but not Bargnani. They still believe that he can become a solid player. He's showing improvement lately.

Re: Raptors/Celtics: worth the gamble??????
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2009, 02:27:45 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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As mentioned by others, I see no incentive for Toronto to make that trade.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

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Re: Raptors/Celtics: worth the gamble??????
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2009, 02:31:33 PM »

Offline Jon

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People need to calm down.  I'm very upset about what's going on, but let's face it, a lot of that unhappiness is stemming from the fact that we thought this team might challenge the Bulls for the best record of all time, and that's not going to happen. 

They're sputtering, but there's still plenty of time.  Rondo's in a funk, but there's plenty of time for him to get out of it.  Sure, they're backing off him a little, but he's still fast enough to get to the rim.  Someone just needs to tell him to put it off the backboard and not off the rim. 

They can try to make a trade, but it shouldn't involve the Big Three.  They'll never get fair value.  I doubt that will happen though.  All we have are two undersized power forwards, a point guard who can't make plays, and an athletic shooting guard with a basketball IQ of about 5.  That isn't going to get us anything.  Instead, I'd like to see them try Cassell, Giddens, and Walker and see what they can do while we wait to see if anyone of value gets waived.  If that doesn't happen, and we're still sputtering in a month, I'd consider bringing back Antoine Walker.  Say what you want about him, but he's better than anyone one our bench and he can't make the team any worse than it is now. 

Still, don't panic.  They will be a top 2 team in the East by the end of the year and they will contend.  They shouldn't make a panic move.  Almost all teams go through slumps at some point. 

Re: Raptors/Celtics: worth the gamble??????
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2009, 02:33:05 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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This works on the trade checker:

Boston trades:   Ray
                 Scal
                 BBD
Toronto trades:  JO
                 Bargnani

Why for us:     Big man and shooting problems solved, Bargnani's future looking brighter
Why NOT for us: Gamble on JO's health may be too much to swallow,no 2010 cap relief

Why for Toronto: Out from under JO's contract. Giving up Bargnani may cause them pause, but in 2010, they can resign Bosh and still be a player in the market

Is this too much of a gamble for us? Does Toronto even consider this? Flame away, guys. This is my first trade proposal, so be gentle.



Nice try, Tor would trade TO but not Bargnani. They still believe that he can become a solid player. He's showing improvement lately.


How about Kapono in place of Bargnani, then?

Re: Raptors/Celtics: worth the gamble??????
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2009, 03:14:32 PM »

Offline Finkelskyhook

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As mentioned by others, I see no incentive for Toronto to make that trade.

I see all kinds of incentives for Toronto.  They get rid of a half-wit malcontent who plays only when he feels like it who has nothing left in the tank even when he does play.  They'd get a great shooting SG who is a model citizen and still has a little left in the tank.

I have no idea why any team would want O'Neal.  So I have no idea why we'd do it.

Re: Raptors/Celtics: worth the gamble??????
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2009, 05:14:10 PM »

Offline Rondo_is_better

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As mentioned by others, I see no incentive for Toronto to make that trade.

I see all kinds of incentives for Toronto.  They get rid of a half-wit malcontent who plays only when he feels like it who has nothing left in the tank even when he does play.  They'd get a great shooting SG who is a model citizen and still has a little left in the tank.

I have no idea why any team would want O'Neal.  So I have no idea why we'd do it.

I think this is just an awful trade for the C's. Totally lopsided in favor of the Raptors, which you don't often on Celtics Blog. JO is beyond done, Bargnani is a bust who can shoot threes, and we're giving up Ray Allen, who is a 7 time all-star.

Just because Ray is struggling right now doesn't mean we should ship him out. His shot will come back, just give it time. Please, no more trades involving a member of the big three. Not this season.
Grab a few boards, keep the TO's under 14, close out on shooters and we'll win.

Re: Raptors/Celtics: worth the gamble??????
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2009, 05:31:07 PM »

Offline Gomesfan

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I don't like this trade for us at all, but Toronto wouldn't even consider this.

JO contract ends in 2010, btw.

Doesn't Ray's expire into 2010 also?
L.A. Clippers
Derrick Rose Blake Griffin 4.11 5.3 5.15 6.11 7.15 8.11 9.15 10.11 11.15 12.11 13.15

Re: Raptors/Celtics: worth the gamble??????
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2009, 06:35:41 PM »

Offline BUTerrier

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I think this is just an awful trade for the C's. Totally lopsided in favor of the Raptors, which you don't often on Celtics Blog. JO is beyond done, Bargnani is a bust who can shoot threes, and we're giving up Ray Allen, who is a 7 time all-star.

First of all, I don't think JO is by any means a malcontent. He didn't like Indiana; that doesn't make him a malcontent. If you want to go by that standard, KG is a malcontent because he just wasn't satisfied with his contract and made noise about getting out of Minnesota. Short of the fight at the Palace, there really isn't a lot of difference in KG and JO's attitudes.

Second, if you're going to go noting that Allen is a 7-time All-Star (and, by the way, get the number right; Allen is an EIGHT-time All-Star) you should probably also note that JO is a 6-time All-Star. Plus, All-Star selections mean absolutely nothing in the discussion of value; if they did, then we'd be arguing that Dikembe Mutombo (an 8-time All Star) is currently better than LeBron James (merely a 4-time All-Star; and, yes, that "merely" is said tongue-in-cheek).

Truth be told, the problem isn't in the statistics or the skills. It's that we'd really have nowhere to put JO. I'm not saying Perk is an All-Star talent or an all-time great, but he's certainly strong enough at Center that we don't need to replace him with anyone but a no-question superstar (Amare, Howard . . .you get the picture.) JO isn't so much better than Perk that it would make sense to replace him. So do we move KG to the 3 like they did in the All-Star game a while back?

I'm not saying I don't respect the trade proposal, but I think it'd be best served to think about how we'd actually use them.

Re: Raptors/Celtics: worth the gamble??????
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2009, 06:36:21 PM »

Offline cordobes

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I don't like this trade for us at all, but Toronto wouldn't even consider this.

JO contract ends in 2010, btw.

Doesn't Ray's expire into 2010 also?

Sure. But the OP pointed as a negative to us that "2010 cap relief". And as a positive to Toronto "in 2010, they can resign Bosh and still be a player in the market". So, he was very probably under the impression that O'Neal's contract was longer.

Re: Raptors/Celtics: worth the gamble??????
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2009, 07:04:59 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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I don't like this trade for us at all, but Toronto wouldn't even consider this.

JO contract ends in 2010, btw.

Doesn't Ray's expire into 2010 also?

Sure. But the OP pointed as a negative to us that "2010 cap relief". And as a positive to
Toronto "in 2010, they can resign Bosh and still be a player in the market". So, he was very probably under the impression that O'Neal's contract was longer.


Thanks for the clarification, Cordobes, you are correct in that I thought that JO's k was up in '11 not '10, and that this would be a negative for us and a positive for them. However, I was thinking more to JO being oft injured, hence the contract being burdensome and something they may want to get out from under. I am not devaluing Ray here, but rather thinking they would give us Barganani as well as JO because of the risk implicit in assuming the contract of a relatively frequently injured player (JO).

Great conversation, all....thanks

Re: Raptors/Celtics: worth the gamble??????
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2009, 09:57:03 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Your plan to fix a shooting problem is to trade Ray Allen? 



 ::)

Re: Raptors/Celtics: worth the gamble??????
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2009, 10:21:39 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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Your plan to fix a shooting problem is to trade Ray Allen? 



 ::)

can't both Bargnani and JO shoot, Bargnani 3s and midrange and JO midrange and post?

Re: Raptors/Celtics: worth the gamble??????
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2009, 10:25:54 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Your plan to fix a shooting problem is to trade Ray Allen? 



 ::)

can't both Bargnani and JO shoot, Bargnani 3s and midrange and JO midrange and post?


And the Celtics would have to replace Ray Allen, one of the all time great outside shooters in the NBA, with Tony Allen, who has no outside shot.  That's not fixing a shooting problem.  That is making it worse. 


Celtics need an extra shooter off the bench without giving up a starter.