Author Topic: Sam Cassell  (Read 4329 times)

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Sam Cassell
« on: December 31, 2008, 07:37:08 PM »

Offline BrickJames

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If there's one thing we've learned about Danny Ainge, it's that there's always a method to his madness.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but he is an active, creative GM who always has plans A, B, C and D charted out.

That said, and given the recent uproar about the quality of our bench, where has Cassell been?  Why would Ainge sign him to a roster spot if he isn't playing?

All along, I thought that we were saving him for the playoffs, giving some of our young talent a chance to earn a rotation spot or be showcased for a trade.  With the number of (obvious) trade targets fitting our team diminishing, can we expect to see Sam any time soon?  Do we even want to?

I'm left in the dark as to why we have a quality veteran scoring guard on the bench when we are in the need of just that on the floor.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2009, 02:44:53 AM by BrickJames »
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Re: Sam Cassell
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2008, 07:56:09 PM »

Offline billysan

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While I wouldnt mind seeing a little 'Sam' in games, I cant help but wonder if he is being saved for the end of the year. He is definitely capable of better playmaking than House and better shooting than Rondo, but not much defense left in those legs as I recall.

I we really are in need of a back up PG, why not give J Will a look? Better yet, send Eddie, Powe and Giddens to the Clippers for Jason Hart, Brian Skinner and J Will's contract rights as filler. 8)
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Re: Sam Cassell
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2008, 08:03:53 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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I said this earlier today:  I think we will see Cassell become the first PG off the bench after the all-star game so he is in game shape and has worked out the chemistry kinks with the team by the time the playoffs roll around. 


And I also think this will give the Celtics the good Cassell, with provides them a true scorer off the bench. 

Re: Sam Cassell
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2008, 08:36:50 PM »

Offline Redz

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I'm ready for some Sam
Yup

Re: Sam Cassell
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2008, 09:13:38 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Sam over eddie house is a very intriguing option to me currently.

Re: Sam Cassell
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2008, 09:14:30 PM »

Offline TradeProposalDude

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I wonder if the pre game pickup games with Scal are keeping him in prime shape. LOL.

If we're counting on Cassell to be the savior for the 2nd unit, it looks to me like a red flag that we need to make a move (or two) to improve the bench, fast.

Re: Sam Cassell
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2008, 09:57:40 PM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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Kind of funny that with as many bad things that are happening out there House is the one getting the blame. TA is playing bad, BBD worse. Sure House isn't hitting his shots like he usually does the past week or so, but thinking Sam is going to solve our bench problems is ridiculous. The guy will get lit up defensively. That isn't even a debate. He is shoot first, second, and third option. He runs most of the clock out before giving the ball up. He isn't quick enough to get the ball in the middle anymore.

What we need is a PG that can penetrate. This will allow us to kick out to House, get the ball down to our bigs. Blake's performance last night was exactly the type of player we need out there. Gabe can shoot like Blake, but can he get into the paint?! We may just need a fast pg. I can't believe I am saying this, but maybe Starbury wouldn't be the end of the world?! I am almost to the point that I'd rather have him than Sam. (I can't believe I just wrote that!)

Re: Sam Cassell
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2008, 10:57:42 PM »

Offline LB3533

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I thought Sam wasn't playing because we were going to give Pruitt some run, but that hasn't happened much either.

Re: Sam Cassell
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2008, 11:06:05 PM »

Offline BrickJames

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Kind of funny that with as many bad things that are happening out there House is the one getting the blame. TA is playing bad,
Whose blaming Eddie for anything?  Last I checked, Eddie and TA play the same position and have the same role.  Combo guard off the bench.  That said, it is awfully surprising that TA hasn't been living up to his expectations...

BBD worse.
That is up for dispute, but again you're spot on.  I'd like to see more Scal, too (our only veteran frontcourt presence on the bench).  However, he certainly doesn't fill the scoring/offense stabilization role.

Sure House isn't hitting his shots like he usually does the past week or so, but thinking Sam is going to solve our bench problems is ridiculous.
"Usually", eh?  41% in the regular season, 30% in the playoffs last year (41/35 career) is hardly usual, in my humble opinion.  Let's not get into the shot selection/(lack of) clutchness discussion in this thread, there are countless others.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/eddie_house/career_stats.html

The guy will get lit up defensively.

More than TA, who is one of the most overrated defenders of all time?  (Steals != Defense, and I don't care what formula Hollinger or someone else has concocted that says TA is an elite defender - he simply is not).

More than Eddie House?  Who hustles his arse off (gotta love him for that) but can hardly guard a chair?

More than an obviously hurt PP? (let's not deny it people - the Truth is Paul Pierce's knees are DONE - just watch how he shoots threes now...)

If all three of the above players can function reasonably efficient in a well devised and coached team defensive scheme, what makes you think Sam can't?  How are Sam's gambles on D any different than Rondos?  His speed?  Your unwarranted dislike for him?  Show me some stats that Sam is any worse in our defense than any of our other guard options off the bench.

That isn't even a debate. He is shoot first, second, and third option.
Perhaps a little bit hyperbolic, but isn't that what we need?  If there's anything Sam has proven over the years, it's that he knows how to create his shot, take his shot, and make it when it counts.


He runs most of the clock out before giving the ball up. He isn't quick enough to get the ball in the middle anymore.
Now, you're grasping for straws really.  When was he ever quick?  He doesn't run the clock out - you may be thinking of when he gets the ball with 5-7 seconds left on the shot clock and instead of passing it, he shoots.  Sam will put an end to the "hot potato" mentality we've been seeing in the second unit that often leads to a poor shot.

What we need is a PG that can penetrate. This will allow us to kick out to House, get the ball down to our bigs. Blake's performance last night was exactly the type of player we need out there. Gabe can shoot like Blake, but can he get into the paint?! We may just need a fast pg. I can't believe I am saying this, but maybe Starbury wouldn't be the end of the world?! I am almost to the point that I'd rather have him than Sam. (I can't believe I just wrote that!)

And there's where I'd agree with you.  Marbury and Cassell as two bench guard options would be ideal, given all the price/luxtax restrictions, at least to me.
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Re: Sam Cassell
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2008, 11:07:13 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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I wonder if we don't move Eddie out of the point responsibilities, if he doesn't become more effective as just a shooter from the 2.

I'm open to other alternatives, but Sam's here and he's worth a look.

Meanwhile, I'd say Tony is living up to expectations.
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Re: Sam Cassell
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2009, 03:43:09 PM »

Offline BrickJames

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So it's settled then, Bring on Sam!
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Re: Sam Cassell
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2009, 04:00:19 PM »

Offline tb727

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More than an obviously hurt PP? (let's not deny it people - the Truth is Paul Pierce's knees are DONE - just watch how he shoots threes now...)

How did you come to this conclusion?
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Re: Sam Cassell
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2009, 04:15:22 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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If there's one thing we've learned about Danny Ainge, it's that there's always a method to his madness.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but he is an active, creative GM who always has plans A, B, C and D charted out.

That said, and given the recent uproar about the quality of our bench, where has Cassell been?  Why would Ainge sign him to a roster spot if he isn't playing?

All along, I thought that we were saving him for the playoffs, giving some of our young talent a chance to earn a rotation spot or be showcased for a trade.  With the number of (obvious) trade targets fitting our team diminishing, can we expect to see Sam any time soon?  Do we even want to?

I'm left in the dark as to why we have a quality veteran scoring guard on the bench when we are in the need of just that on the floor.

Obvious answer to this question. Cassell wasn't signed to play in December. He was signed to activate toward the end of the season, particularly if PG is a problem.

Cassell is old and brittle. No need to wear him out this early.

Re: Sam Cassell
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2009, 04:18:37 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I can't say that I have any idea of what the "master plan" is for Sam but I sure don't think he is any kind of an answer for what ails the second unit.  What I have seen is Pruitt play well enough to confirm that he can be a fine 3rd PG and that we don't need Cassell.  I think Sam is just insurance and a possible trade chip.  I am glad he is not one of the active 12 players.

The thing about Eddie is that he defends PG's pretty well in my opinion but he is not effective offensively if he has to handle the ball.  He likes to catch and shoot, period.  Having Ray or Tony handling the ball is not the answer either.  Maybe they need to get Pruitt on the court with Eddie.  Pruitt could cover the opposing SG and Eddie could cover the opposing PG but on Offense, we let Pruitt handle the ball.  Then let Tony play with the first unit to rest PP or RA and work BBD and Leon with the scrubs+Pierce.  It is a minor adjustment but may be just enough to squeeze out a little more from the second unit.

Re: Sam Cassell
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2009, 06:22:04 PM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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Kind of funny that with as many bad things that are happening out there House is the one getting the blame. TA is playing bad,
Whose blaming Eddie for anything?  Last I checked, Eddie and TA play the same position and have the same role.  Combo guard off the bench.  That said, it is awfully surprising that TA hasn't been living up to his expectations...

BBD worse.
That is up for dispute, but again you're spot on.  I'd like to see more Scal, too (our only veteran frontcourt presence on the bench).  However, he certainly doesn't fill the scoring/offense stabilization role.

Sure House isn't hitting his shots like he usually does the past week or so, but thinking Sam is going to solve our bench problems is ridiculous.
"Usually", eh?  41% in the regular season, 30% in the playoffs last year (41/35 career) is hardly usual, in my humble opinion.  Let's not get into the shot selection/(lack of) clutchness discussion in this thread, there are countless others.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/eddie_house/career_stats.html

The guy will get lit up defensively.

More than TA, who is one of the most overrated defenders of all time?  (Steals != Defense, and I don't care what formula Hollinger or someone else has concocted that says TA is an elite defender - he simply is not).

More than Eddie House?  Who hustles his arse off (gotta love him for that) but can hardly guard a chair?

More than an obviously hurt PP? (let's not deny it people - the Truth is Paul Pierce's knees are DONE - just watch how he shoots threes now...)

If all three of the above players can function reasonably efficient in a well devised and coached team defensive scheme, what makes you think Sam can't?  How are Sam's gambles on D any different than Rondos?  His speed?  Your unwarranted dislike for him?  Show me some stats that Sam is any worse in our defense than any of our other guard options off the bench.

That isn't even a debate. He is shoot first, second, and third option.
Perhaps a little bit hyperbolic, but isn't that what we need?  If there's anything Sam has proven over the years, it's that he knows how to create his shot, take his shot, and make it when it counts.


He runs most of the clock out before giving the ball up. He isn't quick enough to get the ball in the middle anymore.
Now, you're grasping for straws really.  When was he ever quick?  He doesn't run the clock out - you may be thinking of when he gets the ball with 5-7 seconds left on the shot clock and instead of passing it, he shoots.  Sam will put an end to the "hot potato" mentality we've been seeing in the second unit that often leads to a poor shot.

What we need is a PG that can penetrate. This will allow us to kick out to House, get the ball down to our bigs. Blake's performance last night was exactly the type of player we need out there. Gabe can shoot like Blake, but can he get into the paint?! We may just need a fast pg. I can't believe I am saying this, but maybe Starbury wouldn't be the end of the world?! I am almost to the point that I'd rather have him than Sam. (I can't believe I just wrote that!)

And there's where I'd agree with you.  Marbury and Cassell as two bench guard options would be ideal, given all the price/luxtax restrictions, at least to me.
I think that the thread overall is blaming House for not being able to live up to his PG duties. I would agree that he isn't the ideal PG, but not the biggest problem we have on the second unit. I think what you don't give House credit for on D is his ball denial. He does a great job of keeping the ball away from his man. I think his D is solid. Nothing spectacular, but solid.

Scal may not fill the offensive stabilization role, but he is a very solid defender and good at keeping offense flowing. He can also knock down the open 3. Seems to be doing a little better job at rebounding this year two, but I don't know if the stats back that up.

House is a streak shooter. It is what it is, but he has hit a lot of big buckets in big moments and will continue to do so. I agree like someone before here if he was only playing the 2 that % would pick up big time. Especially if he had a good penetrating guard to kick it out to him square up. He is no where near as good coming off the dribble. (unless he is on fire) 35% from 3 is a very solid career average by the way. Ray is one of the great shooters of all time and is only 4.5% higher.

I agree that TA isn't as good a defender as everyone on here seems to think. He is fundamentally flawed in the way he defends, but has the athleticism to cover it most of the time. If he could learn how to actually play defense correctly he would indeed live up to his legend.

No we don't need Sam who can't penetrate to come in and jack up shots. Keep in mind that he shot under 40% in the regular season for us and playoffs, so if you are going to be upset at House shooting just over 40%, Sam isn't an improvement. We don't need the guy. Gabe is an overall better player at this stage and should be used instead. He does indeed run the clock out because he comes up slowly with the dribble, searches and searches for a shot until he either launches it up or gives it up and asks for it right back, or gives it up with 3-4 seconds left on the clock and someone else takes a bad shot. Sam is not the answer. He is done.