turnovers

[TerreHaute]

This doesn't seem to get talked about much, but to me this is problem #1 with this team. According to the Christmas Day announcers, we are 29th in the league in least turnovers. This is awful for a championship caliber team. It cannot be blamed solely on the bench. Our starters are equally responsible.

Any team that want to win championships, cannot simply give the other team free possessions while taking away their ability to score. That is a sign of a bad team, not a good one. In my opinion, we would have won each of our last two games by double digit margins if the turnovers are cut down to 10-12 per game. That would have given us 5-7 extra possessions against the Lakers, which would have put us ahead by at least 6 points with 4 minutes left instead of tied. This cushion usually leads to victory.

Lastly, this is a coaching issue as much as a player issue. There needs to a consequence for sloppy play, even at the professional level.

What do you guys think?

[Andy Jick]

yeah, i heard that stat as well and it shocked me (i'm not the type that pores over nba statistics like some of the guys here that are all over that stuff).

any weakness becomes magnified in the playoffs.  what's worse, we are NOT a running team, and you expect some turnovers when you run. 

anybody know who the biggest culprit(s) is/are?

[Rondo_is_better]

yeah, i heard that stat as well and it shocked me (i'm not the type that pores over nba statistics like some of the guys here that are all over that stuff).

any weakness becomes magnified in the playoffs.  what's worse, we are NOT a running team, and you expect some turnovers when you run. 

anybody know who the biggest culprit(s) is/are?

the past few games its been Rondo. As much as I love the guy, he had 7 TO's versus Golden State and 5 against the Lakers.

[EJPLAYA]

yeah, i heard that stat as well and it shocked me (i'm not the type that pores over nba statistics like some of the guys here that are all over that stuff).

any weakness becomes magnified in the playoffs.  what's worse, we are NOT a running team, and you expect some turnovers when you run. 

anybody know who the biggest culprit(s) is/are?

PP is the biggest. He commits almost 3 a game this year which is right at his career average. I thought this would go down with this squad of stars since he didn't have to force things.

I think one of our biggest issues with this number is the huge amount of OFFENSIVE fouls we commit. Not only does this give the ball away, it sometimes gets us into foul trouble. PP, Perk, Powe, BBD, KG and others all are extra bad.

TP to someone who can provide a stat link for number of offensive fouls committed. 

[celticmaestro]

#1 problem is the bench.

#2 is turnovers. It's a combination of things, offensive fouls, offensive 3 second calls and careless play; whether it be dribbling or bad passing. A huge culprit has to be both Perkins and Pierce, particularly Paul lately.

[billysan]

We seemed to have a high turnover rate last year as well. I think our high shooting percentage and defense were enough to compensate so we got away with some sloppiness. I dont think we will have that luxury this year. The offensive fouls resulting in turnovers certainly have increased IMO.

[MVP]

yeah, i heard that stat as well and it shocked me (i'm not the type that pores over nba statistics like some of the guys here that are all over that stuff).

any weakness becomes magnified in the playoffs.  what's worse, we are NOT a running team, and you expect some turnovers when you run. 

anybody know who the biggest culprit(s) is/are?

the past few games its been Rondo. As much as I love the guy, he had 7 TO's versus Golden State and 5 against the Lakers.

Rondo had 2 TOs against LA. I don't think he is the problem. I think it has to do more with our bigs being turnover prone...whether it be by throwing away the ball, setting illegal screens, traveling or 3 second violations. Guys like Pierce and TA are also turnover prone. This was one of our biggest problems last year as well.

[Norcalceltic]

Last Year The C's were one of the worst Teams in turnovers also. I think it was during the Atlanta series where Doc told the guys during a timeout that he wasn't worried about the turnovers, as long as they played defense. A Championship Team should not be that bad taking care of the Ball. Hopefully by playoff time they correct it.

[LB3533]

Some of the turnovers are ridiculous "offensive fouls (screen/picks version" and the "travels" called on Perk and mainly KG.

If the league lets Lebron and D-Wade take a billion steps, you can let KG or Perk get away with half or a sliding foot.

[CelticsWhat35]

I agree that it's a problem, although the team showed last year that you can still win when your team commits turnovers, as long as your there on the defensive end not letting the opponenet capitalize on those turnovers.

But although there are many suspect turnovers that the team commits (i.e. traveling, 3 seconds, etc.), there are also several times when the team is just careless with the ball, and commits unforced turnovers.  Those are the worst, because you're essentially just gifting the opposition the ball without them doing anything for it.

It would be nice to pick up another veteran for the stretch run and into the playoffs, but if we don't it's not the end of the world.  When Doc Rivers was saying during the 19-game winning streak that the team still had things they need to work on and improve, that wasn't just coach-speak.  It was true.  And if the team improves in these areas, they won't need any help outside of the players that are alraedy on their roster.

[TerreHaute]

#1 problem is the bench.

#2 is turnovers. It's a combination of things, offensive fouls, offensive 3 second calls and careless play; whether it be dribbling or bad passing. A huge culprit has to be both Perkins and Pierce, particularly Paul lately.

Here's why I disagree: if the starters lower their turnovers by just 3 a game, they get three more possessions and take three away from our opponent. If our starters can gain 6 possessions a game, that is at least a 6-8 point swing per game and our bench becomes a much smaller problem.

[Jaycelt]

yeah, i heard that stat as well and it shocked me (i'm not the type that pores over nba statistics like some of the guys here that are all over that stuff).

any weakness becomes magnified in the playoffs.  what's worse, we are NOT a running team, and you expect some turnovers when you run. 

anybody know who the biggest culprit(s) is/are?

PP is the biggest. He commits almost 3 a game this year which is right at his career average. I thought this would go down with this squad of stars since he didn't have to force things.

I think one of our biggest issues with this number is the huge amount of OFFENSIVE fouls we commit. Not only does this give the ball away, it sometimes gets us into foul trouble. PP, Perk, Powe, BBD, KG and others all are extra bad.

TP to someone who can provide a stat link for number of offensive fouls committed. 

If you take assist numbers into consideration Pierce isn't even in the top five.  Both Ray and KG have a worse assist to turnover ratio. In fact, PP is third only to Rondo and House in as/to.

http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2009/Celtics.htm

I've also mentioned many times that although coaches don't like turnovers they much prefer players to be aggressive than not.  Aggressive players commit turnovers (see Kobe, Lebron, Dwade etc).


And yes, we do lead the league in offensive turnovers per possession according to Knickerblogger.
http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2009/o_oe.htm

(Edit- I think I misinterpreted that last statistical link)

[LB3533]

I also don't think the pace that our team plays warrants us to be one of the top turnover teams in the league.

[EJPLAYA]

I also don't think the pace that our team plays warrants us to be one of the top turnover teams in the league.

Well said. A run and gun team you'd expect it from. A half court offense with veteran all-stars not so much...

[Andy Jick]

funny...i said that in the 2nd post but nobody noticed...