Four years later, Tony Allen still hasn't developed

[cordobes]

Ainge allowed Tony Allen to walk away last season, he didn't exercise the qualifying offer. The problem was that he miscalculated the Posey situation and then it was too late to find a substitute - Tony Allen was indeed the best player available.

[housecall]

I haven't seen the rehab. argument lately on TA problems...when will the mental catch up to the physical because he is one of the dumbest NBA player's i have ever witness.He has D-league written all over his face.I know thats not a possiblity or is it?While he's down there send us a BIG that has developed.

[guava_wrench]

I am finally down on TA. He looks worse every week. He offense is anemic, and his defense is in decline with repeated dumb fouls. I'm still hoping to see him get his game back on track, but it isn't looking good at the moment.

[CoachBo]

Tony has some merit - at about 10 mpg as a defensive specialist.

Beyond that ... he is what he is: a wildly mentally inconsistent player.

[CoachBo]

Ainge allowed Tony Allen to walk away last season, he didn't exercise the qualifying offer. The problem was that he miscalculated the Posey situation and then it was too late to find a substitute - Tony Allen was indeed the best player available.

TP

And there, in a nutshell, is the predicament we find ourselves in today. And a vivid illustration of the dropoff from Posey.

Ainge made a lot of mistakes this summer. This is one of them.

[D Dub]

I completely disagree with all the heat that Tony Allen is taking on this thread.  Last year what was everyone complaining about?  The lack of a slasher off the bench, someone who could create for themselves.

Guess what?  Tony Allen has filled that void and he is doing a pretty good job there I think.  Not only that, but he is one of the leagues best defenders.

TA will make some big plays for us come playoff time when we all know that quick guards who can get to the rim and create contact have HUGE advantages.

I don't discount Posey's contribution last year, it was necessary for us to have his battle tested leadership down the stretch, but now ALL our guys are battle tested.  On the floor, his 3pt shooting is easily replaced by shuffling the rotation a bit, and TA and Pierce can more than handle the responsibility to guard the elite wings of the league.  Wanna go small?  Put PP at the 4 and KG at the 5, done.

Would I have like Posey back?  Of course, but I live in the real world where money doesnt grow on trees and understand that we just could not afford him.  Be happy that Wyc is paying luxery tax on our Big 3, how can you expect him to pay a declining bench player the coin the NO ponied up when he has so much $ committed to our starting 5?  I guess its just the nature of this town to find something to complain about...

Mark my words, Tony Allen WILL come up big in the playoffs for us.   

[guava_wrench]

I completely disagree with all the heat that Tony Allen is taking on this thread.  Last year what was everyone complaining about?  The lack of a slasher off the bench, someone who could create for themselves.

Guess what?  Tony Allen has filled that void and he is doing a pretty good job there I think.  Not only that, but he is one of the leagues best defenders.

TA will make some big plays for us come playoff time when we all know that quick guards who can get to the rim and create contact have HUGE advantages.

I don't discount Posey's contribution last year, it was necessary for us to have his battle tested leadership down the stretch, but now ALL our guys are battle tested.  On the floor, his 3pt shooting is easily replaced by shuffling the rotation a bit, and TA and Pierce can more than handle the responsibility to guard the elite wings of the league.  Wanna go small?  Put PP at the 4 and KG at the 5, done.

Would I have like Posey back?  Of course, but I live in the real world where money doesnt grow on trees and understand that we just could not afford him.  Be happy that Wyc is paying luxery tax on our Big 3, how can you expect him to pay a declining bench player the coin the NO ponied up when he has so much $ committed to our starting 5?  I guess its just the nature of this town to find something to complain about...

Mark my words, Tony Allen WILL come up big in the playoffs for us.   

We don't know whether or not TA will be effective in the playoffs. The best we can do is look at what he is doing now and expect similar.

TA is regularly getting swallowed up by defenders on penetration and still throws the ball at the rim, hoping it drops. TA's had many great defensive games earlier in the season, so I will attribute is subpar defense as of late to a bad stretch. He seems like he is constantly running into the guy he is defending as of late. His turnovers have equaled his field goals as of late. He is also still prone to leaving the ball behind when dribbling. His jumper is also still very bad, which clogs the middle when he is in with Rondo.

TA continues to have a decent shooting percentage for a guard, in the high 40s. Perhaps his bad plays are so bad they stick in our memory more than they should.

I think TA might seem worse than he is due to how awkward and goofy he looks at times.

[EJPLAYA]

I completely disagree with all the heat that Tony Allen is taking on this thread.  Last year what was everyone complaining about?  The lack of a slasher off the bench, someone who could create for themselves.

Guess what?  Tony Allen has filled that void and he is doing a pretty good job there I think.  Not only that, but he is one of the leagues best defenders.

TA will make some big plays for us come playoff time when we all know that quick guards who can get to the rim and create contact have HUGE advantages.

I don't discount Posey's contribution last year, it was necessary for us to have his battle tested leadership down the stretch, but now ALL our guys are battle tested.  On the floor, his 3pt shooting is easily replaced by shuffling the rotation a bit, and TA and Pierce can more than handle the responsibility to guard the elite wings of the league.  Wanna go small?  Put PP at the 4 and KG at the 5, done.

Would I have like Posey back?  Of course, but I live in the real world where money doesnt grow on trees and understand that we just could not afford him.  Be happy that Wyc is paying luxery tax on our Big 3, how can you expect him to pay a declining bench player the coin the NO ponied up when he has so much $ committed to our starting 5?  I guess its just the nature of this town to find something to complain about...

Mark my words, Tony Allen WILL come up big in the playoffs for us.   

He WILL come up big for us in the playoffs. In about 1/3rd of the games. The others he will cost us and if we win it will be in spite of his stupid mistakes. 

Also, his defense is slipping. Much like his offensive game, it was based mostly on athleticism. As that is getting worse, so is his productiveness.

[SalmonAndMashedPotatoes]

It seems y'all (or most y'all) want to take team deficiencies and reduce/simplify them to player deficiencies.  But this is a team game and it's not that simple.  In the team game, only holistic solutions solve team-wide problems.  So, as is typically the case, a poster has framed a team deficiency (2nd team inefficiency on offense) as a player deficiency (TA has not developed in 4 years), missing the real issue: why is the 2nd team so [dang]ed inconsistent?  It's a simple answer really, and we all know it: they don't have a point guard.  And point guard is the most important position when it comes to attaining offensive consistency.  Last year, we overcame this inconsistency via veteran leadership at other positions (Posey and PJ Brown, with a little Cassell thrown in there).  This season, we don't have the luxury.  Our two options are simple: build up the point guard position from within (either play Pruitt, with Ed at 2 and TA at 3; or use Rondo as 1st team/2nd team bridge and up his minutes to around 36 or so per night) or increase our veteran leadership from without (signing a PJ Brown-type, or swinging a trade).

Now, admittedly, TA has had some poor games recently, mainly because of high turnovers, but this is not because he hasn't developed in 4 years, it's that, once again, he is being asked by Doc to play out of position.  The thing is, Eddie House, while bringing veteran leadership, great spirit, and sometimes great shooting, can't play point guard at all.  He doesn't dribble well, initiate the offense well, or have much of a clue about calling the right play and good-to-mediocre defensive teams can absolutely shut down our 2nd team offense by applying just a modicum of ball pressure.  That's why House was benched in the playoffs in favor of Cassell and that's why a non-point guard, sometime shaky handle TA is playing defacto point guard right now on our inconsistent 2nd team.  It's because, like it or not, on out of position TA is superior to House at point guard.  This is a big problem and it won't be magically resolved by ridding the team of TA; on the contrary, it'll just make matters worse.  TA is doing his best playing out of position.  When he makes a ton of turnovers, the thought in everyone's minds shouldn't be, "why hasn't TA improved in 4 years," but instead, "why don't we have a real point guard on the second team?" 

Going forward, we're going to either need to see what Pruitt can give us, see if Rondo can take on more minutes and still be effective with the 2nd team, or see if we can add a quality veteran at the backup center position.  All these threads bashing TA--and there's been a lot in the last 2 weeks--keep misframing the issue.  In reality, we lack suitable point guard play and/or veteran leadership on the 2nd team and resolving that issue should be both the focus of the Cs heading forward and also the focus of the message board community.  I know a lot of lot of you didn't care for the TA signing (or the offseason in general), but heaping all the blame on one guy is missing the point and blurring the issue, and it only leads to terrible threads and a lack of communication.

[Finkelskyhook]

Tony has neither the handle nor the basketball IQ to be a PG at any level.  That experiment needs to be put to pasture for good.  He should be backing up at 2 and 3.  Playing the point has helped Tony improve his handle from horrible to adaquate.  But Tony should never have a play run where he is required to take more than 2 dribbles at a time.

To say Tony hasn't developed is ridiculous.  He may not have developed into Jordan or Nash.  But Tony has drastically improved his handle, ability to finish at the rim, and defense.  There's a reason Rivers has him in defensively at the end of games.  He makes boneheaded plays.  But he makes many more good plays.

Tony is a critical member of a championship team.  He shouldn't be playing the point. But he should be playing.
 

[Scribbles]

Tony Allen is what he is.  He's a good, not great, but good defensive player and he's a slasher, who can hit the mid range jump shot.  His ball handling, passing, bball iq, and outside shooting are still bad, but that's not his game.  He's a good role player to have off the bench, but by now I would have thought people would realize he's never going to be more than a role player off the bench to a spot starter on a bad team or due to injuries. 

I agree that him playing PG has to end because he just can't do it.  He's better left playing to his strength's instead of forcing him out of them. 

[gkiteisscal]

I agree with Salmon, TA's play is part of a larger problem.  On the offensive side the C's do not have someone that initiates the offense.  E$ plays off the ball, imo BBD should not be allowed to touch the ball, Powe is a good player but not good enough to handle the double teams, Scal is Scal and that leaves TA.  He has yet again been forced to play out of position.  I think it is time to give Gabe some run and see if more consistant offensive play follows as players can settle into the roles that they are good at.  If Gabe plays then he takes either E$'s or TA's mins as they cannot play the 1/2/3 and have the bench succeed.  So DA may need to bring in a wing. A shooter if TA plays a defender if E$ plays.  But this player becomes your 10th man and lets be honest if Doc is using 10 man rotations in the playoffs he should be fired immediatly.
 
On the defensive side, yes TA has stunk recently, but he is still an explosive defensive player and does come up with some nice steals.  The problem is that he does not match up well against elite wings and a number of playoff teams have elite wings.  Good news is not many defenders do, that is why they are elite wings.  This problem can be mitigated some by the addition of a weakside shot blocker.  LA did not respect the benches interior D and Kobe got to the rim with ease.  BBD is a nice one-on-one defender b/c he is wide, but he is not a shotblocker or a shot alterer b/c he is wide. 

My final point is that there are numerous flaws in every bench players game, that is why they are bench players.  Therefore, talking about individual play is an exercise in futility.  The conclusion exists before the anaylsis begins.  Therefore, anaylsis should focus on how to make the bench more cohesive.  IMO, bringing in a weakside shot blocker and a having pg initiate the offense does this. 

[ssspence]

Ainge allowed Tony Allen to walk away last season, he didn't exercise the qualifying offer. The problem was that he miscalculated the Posey situation and then it was too late to find a substitute - Tony Allen was indeed the best player available.

TP

And there, in a nutshell, is the predicament we find ourselves in today. And a vivid illustration of the dropoff from Posey.

Ainge made a lot of mistakes this summer. This is one of them.

Aside from the Posey debate (and IMO not signing Birdman), what mistakes did Ainge make this summer?

[CoachBo]

Resigning Allen as a sixth man, a role he may never be mentally capable of playing.

Leaving Perkins all but alone at the 5 with the horrid signing of O'Blount. Right now, this one is in a dead heat with the Posey penny-pinching as Danny's biggest mistake.

Making no moves to address the lack of outside shooting on the bench.

Taking Giddens ahead of Walker.

[ssspence]

Resigning Allen as a sixth man, a role he may never be mentally capable of playing.

Leaving Perkins all but alone at the 5 with the horrid signing of O'Blount.

Making no moves to address the lack of outside shooting on the bench.

Taking Giddens ahead of Walker.

Making Allen the sixth man is Doc's doing, not Danny's. TA at 2.5 a year is hardly a poor signing.

I agree on the 5, tho the options sucked. I felt Andersen would have been a good fit.

The bench is the same as last year, minus Posey. Who would you have signed for shooting?

Who knows if either can play, but they have both of the juniors, so who cares if he took Giddens first? Remember that Danny signed Walker to a deal for next to nothing, with option year after option year. He'll make less than $1mil in 4 years if Danny wants. Hardly seems like a mistake. Not taking Jordan or Mhah a Boute -- different story.