Author Topic: Mark Teixeira Signs With Yankees for $170 Million  (Read 33792 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Mark Teixeira Signs With Yankees for $170 Million
« Reply #45 on: December 23, 2008, 07:20:08 PM »

Offline winsomme

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6058
  • Tommy Points: 255
The Yankees are ruining baseball? Funny, they've been doing the same thing since 1919 and baseball is alive and well.

I'm a Billy Beane fan, and Oakland wins 90 games every year with a payroll that is way less than what the inept Orioles spend.  At least when the Yankees and Red Sox overspend, they win a few games.


Yawn.  Yeah I was expecting to read one of those.  While my post may have sounded like sour grapes, you missed my point, especially since I said that i was aware the Orioles have bigger problems to solve before being frustrated with this one.

IMO the Yankees ruining baseball is sour grapes...and believe me, i am feeling some sour grapes right now.

i just finished watching PTI guys debate this and i am right there with them....when a franchise pours that many of their resources into making their team better, it is hard to complain.

i am much more upset about franchises like KC and (sorry say it) the Orioles. The Orioles have such a rabid fan base and have been putting out a really sad product for so long now. and KC is maddening. I mean we do know that there IS revenue sharing in MLB. and teams like KC either aren't spending the money well or aren't spending it at all.

The Indians, the Twins and now the Rays have shown that you can put together really good teams with relatively small payrolls, so i just think that complaining about the Yankees ruining baseball is a copout....

i hate the Yankees as much as the next Sox fan, but i think they are great for baseball.

i gotta ask you Greg, who really is ruining the experience for you more....the Yankees or the Orioles themselves? I mean if you were a Rays fan, would you really be saying the same thing that you are saying now about the game itself?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 07:29:38 PM by winsomme »

Re: Mark Teixeira Signs With Yankees for $170 Million
« Reply #46 on: December 23, 2008, 07:24:44 PM »

Offline NoraG1

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1350
  • Tommy Points: 108


Anyone else annoyed that they just committed over 400 million to 3 players, but they are still asking the taxpayers for additional money for their stadium.

I love how they got $400 million to play in a city that's so close to bankruptcy. 38 new taxes are being put into motion, I wonder if the taxpayers would like that money back now

Looks like the economic situation has affected everyone but the Yankees.

Re: Mark Teixeira Signs With Yankees for $170 Million
« Reply #47 on: December 23, 2008, 07:59:46 PM »

Online Vermont Green

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11224
  • Tommy Points: 860
Wow, totally not expecting that!!

How is this for a conspiracy theory.  Boras made sure Tex ended up with the Yankmees because that had a side deal that if Boras delivered Tex, the Yankees would give Manny 3 years.

No doubt this hurts the Sox but it is over paying by anyone's standard but the Yankees.

Re: Mark Teixeira Signs With Yankees for $170 Million
« Reply #48 on: December 23, 2008, 08:23:00 PM »

Offline Jesus Shuttlesworth #20

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 233
  • Tommy Points: 28
Thats great, now the Sox can give Manny the 6 years, 200 million he deserves!

Re: Mark Teixeira Signs With Yankees for $170 Million
« Reply #49 on: December 23, 2008, 08:48:58 PM »

Offline greg683x

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4097
  • Tommy Points: 585
The Yankees are ruining baseball? Funny, they've been doing the same thing since 1919 and baseball is alive and well.

I'm a Billy Beane fan, and Oakland wins 90 games every year with a payroll that is way less than what the inept Orioles spend.  At least when the Yankees and Red Sox overspend, they win a few games.




Yawn.  Yeah I was expecting to read one of those.  While my post may have sounded like sour grapes, you missed my point, especially since I said that i was aware the Orioles have bigger problems to solve before being frustrated with this one.

IMO the Yankees ruining baseball is sour grapes...and believe me, i am feeling some sour grapes right now.

i just finished watching PTI guys debate this and i am right there with them....when a franchise pours that many of their resources into making their team better, it is hard to complain.

i am much more upset about franchises like KC and (sorry say it) the Orioles. The Orioles have such a rabid fan base and have been putting out a really sad product for so long now. and KC is maddening. I mean we do know that there IS revenue sharing in MLB. and teams like KC either aren't spending the money well or aren't spending it at all.

The Indians, the Twins and now the Rays have shown that you can put together really good teams with relatively small payrolls, so i just think that complaining about the Yankees ruining baseball is a copout....

i hate the Yankees as much as the next Sox fan, but i think they are great for baseball.

i gotta ask you Greg, who really is ruining the experience for you more....the Yankees or the Orioles themselves? I mean if you were a Rays fan, would you really be saying the same thing that you are saying now about the game itself?

You made a lot of good points in your post and I gave you a Tommy Point.

The Orioles have made me miserable for years now, I wont deny that, but I still have been a fan of the sport.  My point here isnt that the Yankees prevent other teams from being good, obviously like you said, the Rays and Marlins are a couple of examples of teams that have become elite teams through their farm systems.  Im not argueing that its impossible to become a good team in baseball because of the Yankees.  My complaint is when the young players on the Devil Rays start becoming free agents and the Yankees completely rape them doubling the offer the Rays are willing to give them.

So I guess to be more clear, Im not saying the Yankees prevent other teams from becoming good, they prevent other teams from remaining good for a longer period of time, while the Yankees themselves always remain on the upper ranks of baseball because theyre willing to throw out 400 million in contracts.

I guess you could say I'm kind of splitting hairs, but I still think it does more harm for the sport.  Am I feeling sour grapes?  Of course.  But I still think I have a valid point, and there should be a slary cap in baseball.
Greg

Re: Mark Teixeira Signs With Yankees for $170 Million
« Reply #50 on: December 23, 2008, 09:36:57 PM »

Offline winsomme

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6058
  • Tommy Points: 255
The Yankees are ruining baseball? Funny, they've been doing the same thing since 1919 and baseball is alive and well.

I'm a Billy Beane fan, and Oakland wins 90 games every year with a payroll that is way less than what the inept Orioles spend.  At least when the Yankees and Red Sox overspend, they win a few games.




Yawn.  Yeah I was expecting to read one of those.  While my post may have sounded like sour grapes, you missed my point, especially since I said that i was aware the Orioles have bigger problems to solve before being frustrated with this one.

IMO the Yankees ruining baseball is sour grapes...and believe me, i am feeling some sour grapes right now.

i just finished watching PTI guys debate this and i am right there with them....when a franchise pours that many of their resources into making their team better, it is hard to complain.

i am much more upset about franchises like KC and (sorry say it) the Orioles. The Orioles have such a rabid fan base and have been putting out a really sad product for so long now. and KC is maddening. I mean we do know that there IS revenue sharing in MLB. and teams like KC either aren't spending the money well or aren't spending it at all.

The Indians, the Twins and now the Rays have shown that you can put together really good teams with relatively small payrolls, so i just think that complaining about the Yankees ruining baseball is a copout....

i hate the Yankees as much as the next Sox fan, but i think they are great for baseball.

i gotta ask you Greg, who really is ruining the experience for you more....the Yankees or the Orioles themselves? I mean if you were a Rays fan, would you really be saying the same thing that you are saying now about the game itself?

You made a lot of good points in your post and I gave you a Tommy Point.

The Orioles have made me miserable for years now, I wont deny that, but I still have been a fan of the sport.  My point here isnt that the Yankees prevent other teams from being good, obviously like you said, the Rays and Marlins are a couple of examples of teams that have become elite teams through their farm systems.  Im not argueing that its impossible to become a good team in baseball because of the Yankees.  My complaint is when the young players on the Devil Rays start becoming free agents and the Yankees completely rape them doubling the offer the Rays are willing to give them.

So I guess to be more clear, Im not saying the Yankees prevent other teams from becoming good, they prevent other teams from remaining good for a longer period of time, while the Yankees themselves always remain on the upper ranks of baseball because theyre willing to throw out 400 million in contracts.

I guess you could say I'm kind of splitting hairs, but I still think it does more harm for the sport.  Am I feeling sour grapes?  Of course.  But I still think I have a valid point, and there should be a slary cap in baseball.


i hear what you are saying, but i have to say that a hard cap has its problems too....

the NFL seems to be the crown glory for sports fans with the salary structure and resulting parity, but i have to say, there is a lot of mediocre football being played out there and it hasn't stopped there from being completely lame franchises...

i think the idea of the luxury tax is a solid one and then spreading that money amongst the rest of the "poorer" franchises to build up their systems....i think that is what is happening with some smaller payroll teams like the Rays and the Twins....they take that money from the luxury tax and invest it effectively back in their franchise...

maybe they could make the penalties stiffer the higher the payrolls go. that way the only teams getting the stiffest tax would be the team WAY over the soft cap (ie the Yankees), but also force the receiving teams to invest the money back in the franchise and have a minimun investment from the team owners so you don't just have certain owners just pocketing the money..

the small teams do lose out on resigning some players here and there, but that doesn't always work out for the big fish that is getting them (eg  Giambi) and if the compensatory picks are used well, the teams losing the FAs can replenish pretty quickly...

no system is perfect....and  i guess i love the villain component of the Yankees. the team we love to hate.


Re: Mark Teixeira Signs With Yankees for $170 Million
« Reply #51 on: December 24, 2008, 12:20:26 AM »

Offline Mean Gerald Green

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1249
  • Tommy Points: 212
  • Cool Runnings
Quote
Anyone else annoyed that they just committed over 400 million to 3 players, but they are still asking the taxpayers for additional money for their stadium

I know most of you are red sox fans, so excuse me if I sound over dramatic here, but this offseason has pushed me over the edge in regards to baseball.  I'm a Baltimore Orioles fan, and trust I'm very aware that we have bigger problems to solve before thinking about being competative with the Sox and Yankees again, but seriously the spending of the higher market teams has gotten out of hand IMO.  Baseball needs to do something to be able limit teams, namely the Yankees, from stealing every free agent on the market that they decide theyre interested in.  Every sport does something to at least make it difficult for teams who obviously think money is no object, except for baseball.

It's completely ruined the sport for me.  At least with the Red Sox they have a foundation of players they build around, the Yankees are just disgusting with me, and I guess the one only saving grace is it always backfires on them, but I still think it ruins the sport for the other 30 or so teams who actually could have benefited from these free agents had they had any kind of remote chance of signing them.  I just cant get into the sport anymore and I think Im done with it until things change (or if Angelos sold the team to Cal Ripken), and Im sure all of you are saying, thats easy for you to say, youre an O's fan, but either way....

Just my 2 cents.

Your two cents deserves one tommy point. Couldn't agree with you more.

Can you imagine being a Royals or Pirates fan? I mean you have no chance...ever. Just give up. I like being a fan of a big market team but this is disgusting. The Yankees have spent almost a half a billion dollars for 3 players. Hank Steinbrenner needs to be contained.

Re: Mark Teixeira Signs With Yankees for $170 Million
« Reply #52 on: December 25, 2008, 01:05:10 AM »

Offline Brickowski

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4207
  • Tommy Points: 423
Why is this any different that it has always been?  People said the same thing when the Yankees were winning championships from 1920-1978. They could afford Ruth, Gerhig, DiMaggio, Berra, Mantle, Reggie Jackson etc. etc. and other teams couldn't.

MLB has had teams far more futile than today's Pirates or Kansas City Royals.  Take the St. Louis Browns, who won exactly one pennant in their entire history, in 1944 when all the good players were off fighting WWII.  The rest of the time they finished last. Or the Boston Braves,  or the Washington Senators, who were so bad for so many years that Shirley Povich, the famous sportswriter quipped "Ah Washington, first in peace, first in war and last in the American League."   Or how about the Kansas City A's, who were basically a Yankees farm team, trading all of their good players to NY (e.g. Roger Maris)in exchange for fading veterans like Hank Bauer and Bob Cerv? People have been screaming "break up the Yankees" for decades.

And before Marvin Miller and Curt Flood stepped in to unionize the players and challenge the reserve clause, there was no free agency and no draft.  When a player signed with a team he belonged to that team for life unless traded, and the teams with the most money and the best scouts got the best players.

The situation is far more hopeful for bad teams today. In fact we've seen a number of astute small market teams do well consistently, and several of these teams have won championships.

So this notion that the Steinbrenners are "ruining baseball" or "need to be contained" is just the same old sour grapes.

 

 
« Last Edit: December 25, 2008, 01:10:12 AM by Brickowski »

Re: Mark Teixeira Signs With Yankees for $170 Million
« Reply #53 on: December 28, 2008, 09:22:54 PM »

Offline Mean Gerald Green

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1249
  • Tommy Points: 212
  • Cool Runnings
Why is this any different that it has always been?  People said the same thing when the Yankees were winning championships from 1920-1978. They could afford Ruth, Gerhig, DiMaggio, Berra, Mantle, Reggie Jackson etc. etc. and other teams couldn't.

MLB has had teams far more futile than today's Pirates or Kansas City Royals.  Take the St. Louis Browns, who won exactly one pennant in their entire history, in 1944 when all the good players were off fighting WWII.  The rest of the time they finished last. Or the Boston Braves,  or the Washington Senators, who were so bad for so many years that Shirley Povich, the famous sportswriter quipped "Ah Washington, first in peace, first in war and last in the American League."   Or how about the Kansas City A's, who were basically a Yankees farm team, trading all of their good players to NY (e.g. Roger Maris)in exchange for fading veterans like Hank Bauer and Bob Cerv? People have been screaming "break up the Yankees" for decades.

And before Marvin Miller and Curt Flood stepped in to unionize the players and challenge the reserve clause, there was no free agency and no draft.  When a player signed with a team he belonged to that team for life unless traded, and the teams with the most money and the best scouts got the best players.

The situation is far more hopeful for bad teams today. In fact we've seen a number of astute small market teams do well consistently, and several of these teams have won championships.

So this notion that the Steinbrenners are "ruining baseball" or "need to be contained" is just the same old sour grapes.

 

 

Just because things are better than they were during the Great Depression and World War II doesn't mean everything is fine. Not every team can produce prospects, sometimes guys just don't work out.

It's demoralizing to be a fan of a team like the Pirates or Royals, knowing that your team won't be able to compete with the Yankees for the next 4-5 years. Not every team can just spend a half a billion dollars on 3 of the top 4 free agents if their prospects don't work out.

Re: Mark Teixeira Signs With Yankees for $170 Million
« Reply #54 on: December 28, 2008, 10:19:25 PM »

Offline Brickowski

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4207
  • Tommy Points: 423
Maybe the Pirates, Royals and some of the other small market teams should spend some of the luxury tax money they get from the Yankees (over 27 million last year) on better players instead of lining the pockets of the their owners.

Re: Mark Teixeira Signs With Yankees for $170 Million
« Reply #55 on: December 29, 2008, 04:35:27 AM »

Offline Mean Gerald Green

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1249
  • Tommy Points: 212
  • Cool Runnings
Maybe the Pirates, Royals and some of the other small market teams should spend some of the luxury tax money they get from the Yankees (over 27 million last year) on better players instead of lining the pockets of the their owners.

Luxury tax money is not redistributed.

Revenue sharing is and some teams do use the money on raising their payroll. The system is set up so owners only have to spend that money on baseball operations (scouting, ballpark improvements, etc...) and not necessarily on player salaries.

The system is flawed and needs to be adjusted, but it's a step in the right direction. Large market teams will always generate overwhelming amounts of revenue, allowing them to spend at will. A team located in Kansas City or Pittsburgh is not in a situation to accrue resources anywhere close to that of New York, Boston, LA, etc.

Re: Mark Teixeira Signs With Yankees for $170 Million
« Reply #56 on: December 29, 2008, 09:00:02 AM »

Offline Brickowski

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4207
  • Tommy Points: 423
If Pittsburgh can't support a competitive team, then either move the team or shut it down.  Why should franchises in NY, LA and the other big markets be forced to reduce their quality to the lowest common denominator?

Even with a salary cap, parity is a sometime thing, and teams with more resources will always have the advantage in any system that allows free agency. 

Re: Mark Teixeira Signs With Yankees for $170 Million
« Reply #57 on: December 29, 2008, 09:22:48 AM »

Offline crownsy

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8469
  • Tommy Points: 157
If Pittsburgh can't support a competitive team, then either move the team or shut it down.  Why should franchises in NY, LA and the other big markets be forced to reduce their quality to the lowest common denominator?

Even with a salary cap, parity is a sometime thing, and teams with more resources will always have the advantage in any system that allows free agency. 

Im not sure overpaying = quality.

The yankees certainly have the highest payroll because they can, but i don't think it has anything to do with quality.

« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 09:37:51 AM by crownsy »
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Mark Teixeira Signs With Yankees for $170 Million
« Reply #58 on: December 29, 2008, 09:54:07 AM »

Offline winsomme

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6058
  • Tommy Points: 255
Maybe the Pirates, Royals and some of the other small market teams should spend some of the luxury tax money they get from the Yankees (over 27 million last year) on better players instead of lining the pockets of the their owners.

Luxury tax money is not redistributed.

Revenue sharing is and some teams do use the money on raising their payroll. The system is set up so owners only have to spend that money on baseball operations (scouting, ballpark improvements, etc...) and not necessarily on player salaries.

The system is flawed and needs to be adjusted, but it's a step in the right direction. Large market teams will always generate overwhelming amounts of revenue, allowing them to spend at will. A team located in Kansas City or Pittsburgh is not in a situation to accrue resources anywhere close to that of New York, Boston, LA, etc.

Mean, can you give a reference for luxury tax dollars not being spread around....

if that is the case, then that right there would be one more step in the right direction...

i'm not in favor of a hard cap. i like the Yankees being able to make big splashes...it makes the rivalry more fun to me.

but with higher penalties the more you go over the soft cap, spreading that money to the smaller market teams and making sure they invest the money into the club...i think you can have a nice circular effect...

then it really is up to those smaller market teams to run their franchise well. if they run it well, then not only will they be getting the shared revenue, but they will also see a big uptick at the  gate....especially with teams like KC and Pittsburgh. those are great sports cities, but their teams have just been so bad for so long that people just don't turn out.

Re: Mark Teixeira Signs With Yankees for $170 Million
« Reply #59 on: December 29, 2008, 09:57:10 AM »

Offline crownsy

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8469
  • Tommy Points: 157
Maybe the Pirates, Royals and some of the other small market teams should spend some of the luxury tax money they get from the Yankees (over 27 million last year) on better players instead of lining the pockets of the their owners.

Luxury tax money is not redistributed.

Revenue sharing is and some teams do use the money on raising their payroll. The system is set up so owners only have to spend that money on baseball operations (scouting, ballpark improvements, etc...) and not necessarily on player salaries.

The system is flawed and needs to be adjusted, but it's a step in the right direction. Large market teams will always generate overwhelming amounts of revenue, allowing them to spend at will. A team located in Kansas City or Pittsburgh is not in a situation to accrue resources anywhere close to that of New York, Boston, LA, etc.

Mean, can you give a reference for luxury tax dollars not being spread around....

if that is the case, then that right there would be one more step in the right direction...

i'm not in favor of a hard cap. i like the Yankees being able to make big splashes...it makes the rivalry more fun to me.

but with higher penalties the more you go over the soft cap, spreading that money to the smaller market teams and making sure they invest the money into the club...i think you can have a nice circular effect...

then it really is up to those smaller market teams to run their franchise well. if they run it well, then not only will they be getting the shared revenue, but they will also see a big uptick at the  gate....especially with teams like KC and Pittsburgh. those are great sports cities, but their teams have just been so bad for so long that people just don't turn out.

I don't have a referance (though im sure one can be found) but he's right, luxary tax is just money that you pay to the MLB, its not redisturbted to the other clubs.

Revenue sharing is, but not luxary tax.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion