Author Topic: Bulls (12-13) at Celtics (24-2) 12/18  (Read 35700 times)

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Re: Bulls (12-13) at Celtics (24-2) 12/18
« Reply #60 on: December 19, 2008, 08:41:11 PM »

Offline Cman

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Maybe Doc has a plan. Let it happen now in the early part of the season, try to get that 2nd unit to improve as a unit. Maybe by the playoffs they will be a viable unit and able to honestly spell the starters.

Yes, I think this is the reasoning -- he wants to get them to learn how to play well together. 

I like that he is finding ways to work Gabe Pruitt into the mix. 

What the hell has happened to the bench... they're a mess on both offense and defense. And I think individually they've all actually taken a step back... other than TA, who in my opinion was never particularly good.

Good call. They started draining threes after our bench made them feel better than they actually are

didn't mean to quote myself... WHOOPS!

lol but yeah, I totally agree that the starters should be mixed in with the bench. Otherwise they really lack a go-to offensive guy.


Nice triple quote  ;)
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Re: Bulls (12-13) at Celtics (24-2) 12/18
« Reply #61 on: December 19, 2008, 08:41:49 PM »

Offline PickNRoll

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At least we don't have to listen to Tanguay tonight.

Re: Bulls (12-13) at Celtics (24-2) 12/18
« Reply #62 on: December 19, 2008, 08:42:08 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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the 2nd unit is troubled, i think its official..the freaking bulls 2nd unit it better

i don't know about that. We seem to be one of the few teams that really tries to have 2 separate units. the bulls' "second unit" is really a hodge podge. Also, the bulls are young and unfocused in terms of talent. So while our starters might be a 95 out of a hundred and our bench a 70 or so, the bulls are more like 85 starters and 80 bench, know what i mean?

Exactly, a 70 bench isnt gonna get it done, you add Posey and it instantly makes it nearly an 80....we miss him, but we arent getting him back, we do need to add something though or we arent getting to far unless we plan on playing the starters freaking 48 minutes a game, which isnt happening any time soon
Our bench wasn't very good at time last year as well. Posey alone does not explain their poor play lately.

Re: Bulls (12-13) at Celtics (24-2) 12/18
« Reply #63 on: December 19, 2008, 08:45:09 PM »

Offline ma11l

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the 2nd unit is troubled, i think its official..the freaking bulls 2nd unit it better

i don't know about that. We seem to be one of the few teams that really tries to have 2 separate units. the bulls' "second unit" is really a hodge podge. Also, the bulls are young and unfocused in terms of talent. So while our starters might be a 95 out of a hundred and our bench a 70 or so, the bulls are more like 85 starters and 80 bench, know what i mean?

Exactly, a 70 bench isnt gonna get it done, you add Posey and it instantly makes it nearly an 80....we miss him, but we arent getting him back, we do need to add something though or we arent getting to far unless we plan on playing the starters freaking 48 minutes a game, which isnt happening any time soon
Our bench wasn't very good at time last year as well. Posey alone does not explain their poor play lately.


I agree.  This is not all because we don't have Posey.  Posey would've struggled if he was out there with four other bench players as well.  He was at his best at the end of the game, when he was in the game with most of the starters.  This 5 in 5 out youth league stuff just isn't working.
"Take this down," said O'Neal. "My name is Shaquille O'Neal and Paul Pierce is the (expletive) truth. Quote me on that and don't take nothing out. I knew he could play, but I didn't know he could play like this. Paul Pierce is the truth."

Re: Bulls (12-13) at Celtics (24-2) 12/18
« Reply #64 on: December 19, 2008, 08:46:17 PM »

Offline blueygreen

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Exactly, a 70 bench isnt gonna get it done, you add Posey and it instantly makes it nearly an 80....we miss him, but we arent getting him back, we do need to add something though or we arent getting to far unless we plan on playing the starters freaking 48 minutes a game, which isnt happening any time soon

Posey wouldn't be changing this bench that much. He was at his most useful here when he was playing with the starters and hustling and making defensive plays. With Posey on the team the bench still had no offensive playmaker outside of TA (though I think Posey is more capable than others and perhaps even he himself gives credit for).

Re: Bulls (12-13) at Celtics (24-2) 12/18
« Reply #65 on: December 19, 2008, 08:46:32 PM »

Offline Celtic

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Girlfriend's friend's birthday so I am about to miss the second half, never fear guys, 17 in a row is a lock. Thank god I can watch the score on my phone.

Re: Bulls (12-13) at Celtics (24-2) 12/18
« Reply #66 on: December 19, 2008, 08:48:16 PM »

Offline Binky-King

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The only thing I'm glad to see in the second unit is Pruitt. Tony & Baby have been absolutely terrible...and Eddie has regressed as a back up.

I know Doc wants to rest his guys but the bench shouldn't be in there by themselves, Rondo or Pierce needs to be in to guide them.

Re: Bulls (12-13) at Celtics (24-2) 12/18
« Reply #67 on: December 19, 2008, 08:50:38 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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TA was terrible? everytime they got eddie matched on somebody they just shot right over him. they picked powe like 3 times and got easy buckets every time. not to mention that our starters are only playing D for 20 seconds then not even pretending to run out on open three's.

Re: Bulls (12-13) at Celtics (24-2) 12/18
« Reply #68 on: December 19, 2008, 08:53:25 PM »

Offline ACF

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12 assists for Rondo already!

Re: Bulls (12-13) at Celtics (24-2) 12/18
« Reply #69 on: December 19, 2008, 08:53:40 PM »

Offline Spinmove00

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This comeback is all Doc's fault.  I'm all in favor of using the bench and getting the starters some valuable rest.  But when the leads starts dwindling down and things are starting to get out of control, Doc needs to know when its time to adjust the game plan and start subbing the starters back in.  He also needs to recognize when a player is hot.  The way Rondo and Perk played in the first half, they should have come back in the game alot earlier.  That's the reason Rondo wont make the all star team, Doc wont play him extended minutes when he has it going, so his stats look bad compared to some of the other guards who play 35-42 mins a night.

Re: Bulls (12-13) at Celtics (24-2) 12/18
« Reply #70 on: December 19, 2008, 08:54:40 PM »

Offline PickNRoll

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Eddie is the same player he's always been - A spot-up shooter, nothing more.  John Stockton couldn't create offense for that 2nd unit.  We have to keep a starter on the floor.

Re: Bulls (12-13) at Celtics (24-2) 12/18
« Reply #71 on: December 19, 2008, 09:00:32 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Exactly, a 70 bench isnt gonna get it done, you add Posey and it instantly makes it nearly an 80....we miss him, but we arent getting him back, we do need to add something though or we arent getting to far unless we plan on playing the starters freaking 48 minutes a game, which isnt happening any time soon

Posey wouldn't be changing this bench that much. He was at his most useful here when he was playing with the starters and hustling and making defensive plays. With Posey on the team the bench still had no offensive playmaker outside of TA (though I think Posey is more capable than others and perhaps even he himself gives credit for).



My point was twofold:

1. As Roy said, when you are playing 4-5 bench players at the same time, there will be a large dropoff between starters and bench. True for most teams.

2. My main point was that in order to be an elite team, you have to consolidate your talent into fewer players, such as what the Celts did when they dealt a lot of talented players for KG and Ray. That raised the level of their starters from a 80 to a 95, while dropping their bench from 75 to 70. When teams build an elite starting unit, because of salary structure, the really have to sacrifice their bench. Teams like the Bulls that are young, deep and rebuilding generally have surprisingly good benches because their entire rosters are comprised of 8-10 young, athletic, above average players, and because there is little separation of talent between all those players, the bench isn't going to be much worse than the starters.

In practical terms tonight, our starters are way better than theirs, but our bench is worse than any combo of 5 of their young, high draft picks. 

Really, you could throw any of 10 different Bulls starting lineups out there, and all would probably be equally competitive.

Re: Bulls (12-13) at Celtics (24-2) 12/18
« Reply #72 on: December 19, 2008, 09:07:58 PM »

Offline TatteredOnMySleeve

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The Bulls are actually playing tough tonight, lol something we havent really seen since this team was put together, luckily our offense if clicking tonight, at least the first unit anyways
When you got it going, you got it going. I just keep my focus down the stretch. That's when I want the ball. I'm just not afraid to fail."-PaulPierce

Re: Bulls (12-13) at Celtics (24-2) 12/18
« Reply #73 on: December 19, 2008, 09:08:14 PM »

Offline ILoveWalta

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When the 1st unit is playing this well, you can let the 2nd unit give up a few points....not that I like seeing the 2nd unit give up a lead.

Just.....Wow, the 1st unit is dominant!

Re: Bulls (12-13) at Celtics (24-2) 12/18
« Reply #74 on: December 19, 2008, 09:08:33 PM »

Offline Cman

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ok, Doc, let's see you mix some of the bench in there to give the starters some rest for the 4th quarter.
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