Dunleavy is Right (Wade palming)

[Finkelskyhook]

Either way, I think the point of this thread wasnt that Dwayne Wade is the ONLY player to have broken a rule and not get called, but its that he does it blatantly and it never gets called.

The only player?      I know the messiah is 6-9 and arguably the most athletic player in NBA history.  But it seems physically impossible to start 4 feet behind the three-point line and dunk without a dribble.  Probably because it is. 

Pierce, Nash, Iverson, Garnett, and Carter (among others) get away with traveling practically every time they touch the ball.  The exhasperated looks on their faces in that ridiculously rare occurence when the officials remember the rulebook occasionally applies to them is hilarious.

The fact is that Wade is one of the league's Annointed Young Stars and there is a different set of rules for him.

That is a sad commentary on what the NBA has become since Jordan.  That's why I think today's officials are better than those generations back.  They need to apply different rules to different players.

[cordobes]

The way the first step and the carrying are called in the NBA (and the US) is different from the way it's called in the rest of the world. American players struggle a lot with this when they start playing FIBA ball. This was the reason why the Spaniards were so infuriated after the Olympics finals, refs were calling the 1st step a la NBA.

IMO, that officiating orientation is contrary to the spirit of the game, because it gives such an huge advantage to the attacker. However, coaches and players know the way the game is called and it's been that way for a long, long time. Some players benefit more from it because they can do some stuff in a way that looks natural. If Scalabrine tries to imitate Wade's spin, he'll be called every time, not because he's a scrub and Wade a superstar, but because he'll look extremely awkward executing it.

[Finkelskyhook]

The way the first step and the carrying are called in the NBA (and the US) is different from the way it's called in the rest of the world. American players struggle a lot with this when they start playing FIBA ball. This was the reason why the Spaniards were so infuriated after the Olympics finals, refs were calling the 1st step a la NBA.

NBA elite players struggle in anything other than their own league because the rules don't apply to them in the NBA, period.

[housecall]

I have noticed for years the NBA refs allowing palming for certain players,usually the stars of a team .If you think thats a problem,check out some the Bigs around the league when they use the "Up and Under"move around the basket,some have added a few extra steps to it. 

[guava_wrench]

A lot of people also wrongly think that certain legit moves are travels, especially if a player holding the ball fakes, pivots, then lifts his pivot foot to go under a player and shoots after seemingly taking a step, but never replanting the pivot foot. Crowds wrongly go nuts about that one all the time, thinking the player took two steps.

Another important point. Anyone who says player A gets away with traveling almost every time they touch the ball is so over the top and caught up in hyperbole, that reality has been left behind.

Regarding the Ray Allen J against the bobcats, I think it is a travel. He caught the ball, planted his right foot, lifted his right foot while planting his left, and then planted his right foot again. It was like a 3 step layup. If he had planted both feet together, it would be different.

Thing is, that is NOT an example of a star getting special treatment. That is just a quick play and so borderline that officials don't really see the details clear enough.

The important point of the Wade comment is that there are a few instances of players using violations to their advantage regularly. Rip's fouling while running around on offense, KG's feet shuffling in the post, Wade's carries are all plays that the league needs to look out for. You would think they could crack down on Wade the way they are cracking down on KG since both are obvious violations, unlike the hard to see Rip fouls. The more those violations aren't called, the bolder the player gets to repeat the violation.

I really don't care about the extra steps on fast breaks. I would rather more false negatives than more false positives, because false positives stop play unnecessarily. I do not see Lebron getting special treatment. I just see him being so fast and with such long strides, you can't tell what really happened without instant replay. Lebron finishes at a speed no ones else does, and fortunately, he misses a lot of shots a foot or two from the rim due to that speed. You can't make conclusions based on distanced covered with Lebron. You have to really count steps and watch the ball. That can be tough when the the defenses regularly batter Lebron and the refs need to be alert for the contact (while also watching the other 9 players on the floor).

[guava_wrench]

I have noticed for years the NBA refs allowing palming for certain players,usually the stars of a team .If you think thats a problem,check out some the Bigs around the league when they use the "Up and Under"move around the basket,some have added a few extra steps to it. 

I think what you are talking about is the legal move I mention in my post. That is just a pivot and a step, without re-planting the pivot foot. Not a travel. Just an excellent move.

[housecall]

I have noticed for years the NBA refs allowing palming for certain players,usually the stars of a team .If you think thats a problem,check out some the Bigs around the league when they use the "Up and Under"move around the basket,some have added a few extra steps to it. 

I think what you are talking about is the legal move I mention in my post. That is just a pivot and a step, without re-planting the pivot foot. Not a travel. Just an excellent move.

I hadn't read your post before i posted,but i agree with you.

[cornbreadsmart]

i've been whining about wade carrying for years. i too think he is the only player they don't enforce the rule on and he has had a HUGE unfair advantage because of it. i think the guy is a star any way you cut it but i also think the nba has MADE him better than he is. that whole finals was embarassing as an  nba apologist.ha

[BrickJames]

It seems unanimous that this travelling/palming is going on, not just with Wade but with almost all stars and even non-stars on star teams (a la TA).

So, that begs the questions: where do you draw the line?  And why do we as PAYING FANS put up with it?  In light of the Donaghy scandal and the FACT that there is A LOT of money at stake in NBA gambling, that games are thrown multiple times on a nightly basis, why is this officiating practice acknowledged and yet still acceptable?

Someone fill me in.

[crownsy]

I don't see Tony Allen getting away with much of anything. Even Pierce is getting called when he shuffles his feet before dribbling.

If you want to see a great crossover without palming the ball, watch Ray Allen. Just about everything Ray does is fundamentally sound.

Ray has his own personal traveling move, too. He occasionally travels when he catches and shoots. He takes an extra step when he's caught the ball and still looks like he's floating in the air. It's something I don't think the refs have ever thought about calling before, so in that way it's different from what people are talking about with Wade, AI, and KG.

Check out this mix at 45 seconds (Bobcats game winner) for a slow motion example of this.

While Wade and AI's violations are more frequent (and way more annoying), you've gotta admit that Ray does break the rules here, and technically gets an unfair advantage (better balance) in the process.

The fact that I remembered seeing Ray do this before, and that I was then was able to find the violation quickly on youtube, does show that this isn't something Ray has done only a couple of times.

I gotta admit......I dont see it.  It looks like Ray catches the ball in the air and then lands with both feet, then goes right back up.  Maybe I'm missing it.

Either way, I think the point of this thread wasnt that Dwayne Wade is the ONLY player to have broken a rule and not get called, but its that he does it blatantly and it never gets called.  Refs dont have the luxury of watching a slow motion replay like we do on youtube.  In regards to small stuff like that, it never bothers me, because as much as we benefit from it, in the long run itll balance out, someone else will get away with it against us some other time, in some other game.  What makes me mad, and I'm sure the guy who started this thread as well, is that, again, Wade blatantly does it, and it never gets called, and its a continuous advantage he has over defenders instead of a one time extra step that was too fast for an official to notice.

No, what I said about Ray definitely isn't the point of this thread. But I have noticed it watching in fast motion, too, and I think that in the youtube video it's pretty clear. Upon catching the basketball, a player is allowed either two steps or a jump stop. Ray has a firm grasp on the ball and then takes three steps. The first step is hardly notcieable because as I said it looks like he's kind of floating in the air. In fact, that subtle initial step is probably the only reason he appears to stay in the air for so long after catching the ball.

I admit that this really doesn't matter at all. Now that I've made the point though, I can't resist doing my best to back it up.

I don't see it either, mabey im missing the part where he levitates 

But as others have said, the point of this thread was that wade is so blatant about it, gets called out on it once or twice, and acts all miffed. No ones arguing other guys don't travel.

[IowaGuy]

The Ray Allen J is not a travel people.  He catches the ball in the air and comes down with his right foot hitting the ground first, then his left.  After which he moves his right foot again using his left foot as his pivot foot.  There is nothing wrong with that play, in fact it is text book pivot work.  When coming down from catching the ball the first foot to hit the floor does not automatically make that your pivot foot. 

[2short]

It would be truly interesting to see how today's stars would adjust if today's Stern-driven star-protectionist officials were replaced with officials of the pre-Jordan era.

Yes, MJ carried the ball all the time, rules were changed wwf style.
Great example is his game winning shot over cleveland, he carried the ball and pushed off.

[Brickowski]

It would be truly interesting to see how today's stars would adjust if today's Stern-driven star-protectionist officials were replaced with officials of the pre-Jordan era.

Yes, MJ carried the ball all the time, rules were changed wwf style.
Great example is his game winning shot over cleveland, he carried the ball and pushed off.

When Stern looks at the league's officiating problems he first ought to take a long look in the mirror.  The function of the officials should be quality control, not marketing.  That changed in the Jordan era and it was bad for the league in the long run.