Author Topic: antoine walker as a laker?  (Read 14987 times)

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Re: antoine walker as a laker?
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2008, 04:53:21 PM »

Offline fatherscott

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I think this discussion is missing the point. Just because Fisher or Farmar isn't exactly like a pass-first PG (like Rondo) or a dead-eye shooter (like House), doesn't make them not good (nice sentence, Scott). And no, neither is as good as Rondo, but they're good fits for what they do. With the triangle, you don't need a true PG -- how many did MJ play with? They've got a good-dribbling forward (Odom), dominant big men, Kobe, a bunch of shooters, and PGs who won't make mistakes (well, Farmar won't make enough in his 12 minutes).

Anyway, Toine isn't even a 12th man on their team.
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Re: antoine walker as a laker?
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2008, 04:56:52 PM »

Offline crownsy

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I don't think the Lakers are "ridiculously deep."  IMHO they lack depth at the pg position and are too "Kobe centric" on offense.

The Lakers are good, but they've played 10 out of 15 games at home and their only impressive road win was against New Orleans, which was without Tyson Chandler.


you dont like farmer at the point witht he 10-12 backup minutes availble? They've got a good starter in fisher and a very good backup in farmer, what do they need starbury clamering about taking farmer's minutes for?

as to being to Kobe centric on offense, thats by design, so i doubt there going to aquire a PG with huge chemistry issues and then hand over some of the offense to him just to please us. I agree with you, but thats like saying the cavs are to lebron centric. Its true, but its by design of thier team.



  I don't think Fisher is a good starter at all, and he hasn't been for a while.

Add to that Farmar's inability to play any semblence of defense, and I think its fair to say that pg is the Laker's weakest position.



I mean, if we take the glasses off for a second, which im as guilty of wearing as anyone, we have a bigger problem at PG then they do. Id rather have farmer as my backup PG than house playing out of position or pruitt who hasen't proved anything yet, never mind that they have played kobe at one guard spot for 2-4 minute stretchs this year with sasha at the other to get sasha a few more minutes, and thats actually worked out great for them with ariza at the 3.


  We only have a bigger problem at pg than them if you consider Fisher to be as good or better than Rondo.

no, not really, thats why i only mentioned the backups.

i said at backup PG, not starter. to me, purley as a PG, Farmer/kobe..well.... they use kobe as the PG with sasha in a alot now, but thats not fair for comparision, lets call it sasha/farmer , is better than house (who i lvoe but is a 2)/pruitt (who we have no idea what were going to get).



And the Lakers have a major hole at their staring PG which sort of balances it out in my mind.  Unless you don't think Rondo will blow by Fisher like he's standing still?

i think they will do what they did last year and have kobe guard rajon so thats not an issue for them. Hopefully this year he will take the flipping jump shot when kobe cheats off him to double, which outside of game 6 he didn't last year.
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Re: antoine walker as a laker?
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2008, 05:11:36 PM »

Offline Mideon

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1. Antoine Walker will never be a contributing player on a good team again. The guy has been toast for 4 years now...stick a fork in him.

2. Not sure how the Fisher/Farmar issue came up, but I think some people are grossly undervaluing Jordan Farmar. Solid contributor off the bench, PER of 15+ the past 2 years (similar to Rondo in that capacity), and his #'s only look low due to not playing many minutes. Rondo is obviously better than any point guard on the Lakers...but if Fisher/Farmar are the "weakest link" on a team, you're in pretty good shape. And, as has been stated earlier, the Lakers have no need for a "pure" PG anyway, and Fisher/Farmar each fit in nicely for them in different ways.

The only move I could see LA making might be to ship off Odom's expiring contract for someone who could slide into the starting small forward spot ahead of Vlad Rad. Maybe someone like Marion, VC, or G. Wallace. Most likely they'll stand pat though, and they certainly won't go after the likes of Cyber-Toine.

Re: antoine walker as a laker?
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2008, 05:20:29 PM »

Offline ManUp

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There is no way House is better than Farmar.

Quote
House is a better shooter, and regularly hits his shot in the clutch.
Farmar is better at everything else. 
Quote
He is a much better defender, its not even close really.
 The glasses are obviously still on. Chasing people of the line doesn't make you a good defender, and that's the one thing house does well. House can't defend anyone who actually goes at him.
Quote
And whether he is out of position or not; he has claimed a championship ring playing backup pg.
House barely played during the play-offs. When he did play it wasn't as a true backup pg because he wasn't trusted to handle the ball. Cassel, Ray, and PP were the pg's when on the floor with House.
 
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If I remember correctly, Farmer played like a deer in the headlights in the Finals causing Phil to severely cut his minutes. 
There wasn't a Laker who didn't look like that during the finals.
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Eddie takes a lot of heat for being a better shooter than dribbler, but we should all recognize that he is playing backup pg and he is doing a pretty good job there.
Let's be honest. House has been nothing more than passable as a back up point.






Re: antoine walker as a laker?
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2008, 05:28:13 PM »

Offline The Walker Wiggle

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I'm surprised anybody here likes Radmanovic's game. He's possibly the worst starting SF in the league. Now I don't see Walker playing the 3 at this point in his career, but if their are minutes for Luke Walton and Josh Powell on that team, there could be minutes for Antoine.

I'd like the signing for the Lakers, but I'd like it more if they could first deal Odom for a starting SF.

As for Marbury, he could thrive in L.A., Jackson has his faults but he's a great player handler, has had plenty of experience with off the court distractions, and he doesn't ask his point guards to be traditional play makers.

P.S. House is the better offensive player and solid defensively. Farmar is one of the better young defensive point guards, but not reliable on the other end. Neither has the court vision of a starting point guard so any comparison there seems moot.

Re: antoine walker as a laker?
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2008, 06:28:05 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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I'm surprised anybody here likes Radmanovic's game. He's possibly the worst starting SF in the league. Now I don't see Walker playing the 3 at this point in his career, but if their are minutes for Luke Walton and Josh Powell on that team, there could be minutes for Antoine.

I'd like the signing for the Lakers, but I'd like it more if they could first deal Odom for a starting SF.

As for Marbury, he could thrive in L.A., Jackson has his faults but he's a great player handler, has had plenty of experience with off the court distractions, and he doesn't ask his point guards to be traditional play makers.

P.S. House is the better offensive player and solid defensively. Farmar is one of the better young defensive point guards, but not reliable on the other end. Neither has the court vision of a starting point guard so any comparison there seems moot.
You completely miss the point of starting Radmanovic. He is a great outside shooter. When you have Bynum and Gasol starting, that is great for balance. Like Perk, you don't have to be great to start on a great team. You just have to fill a needed role.

Farmar last year was a much stronger finisher than Rondo, but Rondo looks great finishing this year. Fisher has looked solid in every game I've watched due to his reliability when given open jumpers.

I'm not sure how this thread moved to evaluating the Lakers. The Lakers are looking great this year. Trying to criticize individual players is nonsense, just like when people criticize Perk for his limitations. The Lakers have been dominant. I understand why some fans want to rationalize this away, but I'm fine accepting how good they are. They will be a tougher match this year, and last year was far from easy.

Re: antoine walker as a laker?
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2008, 06:52:59 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I don't think the Lakers are "ridiculously deep."  IMHO they lack depth at the pg position and are too "Kobe centric" on offense.

The Lakers are good, but they've played 10 out of 15 games at home and their only impressive road win was against New Orleans, which was without Tyson Chandler.


you dont like farmer at the point witht he 10-12 backup minutes availble? They've got a good starter in fisher and a very good backup in farmer, what do they need starbury clamering about taking farmer's minutes for?

as to being to Kobe centric on offense, thats by design, so i doubt there going to aquire a PG with huge chemistry issues and then hand over some of the offense to him just to please us. I agree with you, but thats like saying the cavs are to lebron centric. Its true, but its by design of thier team.



  I don't think Fisher is a good starter at all, and he hasn't been for a while.

Add to that Farmar's inability to play any semblence of defense, and I think its fair to say that pg is the Laker's weakest position.



I mean, if we take the glasses off for a second, which im as guilty of wearing as anyone, we have a bigger problem at PG then they do. Id rather have farmer as my backup PG than house playing out of position or pruitt who hasen't proved anything yet, never mind that they have played kobe at one guard spot for 2-4 minute stretchs this year with sasha at the other to get sasha a few more minutes, and thats actually worked out great for them with ariza at the 3.


  We only have a bigger problem at pg than them if you consider Fisher to be as good or better than Rondo.

no, not really, thats why i only mentioned the backups.

i said at backup PG, not starter. to me, purley as a PG, Farmer/kobe..well.... they use kobe as the PG with sasha in a alot now, but thats not fair for comparision, lets call it sasha/farmer , is better than house (who i lvoe but is a 2)/pruitt (who we have no idea what were going to get).



And the Lakers have a major hole at their staring PG which sort of balances it out in my mind.  Unless you don't think Rondo will blow by Fisher like he's standing still?

i think they will do what they did last year and have kobe guard rajon so thats not an issue for them. Hopefully this year he will take the flipping jump shot when kobe cheats off him to double, which outside of game 6 he didn't last year.


  That worked great when Rondo's ankle was slowing him down.

Re: antoine walker as a laker?
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2008, 11:13:29 PM »

Offline The Walker Wiggle

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You completely miss the point of starting Radmanovic. He is a great outside shooter. When you have Bynum and Gasol starting, that is great for balance. Like Perk, you don't have to be great to start on a great team. You just have to fill a needed role.

Farmar last year was a much stronger finisher than Rondo, but Rondo looks great finishing this year. Fisher has looked solid in every game I've watched due to his reliability when given open jumpers.

I'm not sure how this thread moved to evaluating the Lakers. The Lakers are looking great this year. Trying to criticize individual players is nonsense, just like when people criticize Perk for his limitations. The Lakers have been dominant. I understand why some fans want to rationalize this away, but I'm fine accepting how good they are. They will be a tougher match this year, and last year was far from easy.

I don't think I miss the point; I understand the Lakers need for spacing, but I stand by my claim that Radmanovic is among the worst starting small forwards in the league, if not the worst. Has no post game to speak of; is a poor rebounder and defender despite his height, length and agility; questionable decision making and inconsistent effort; not a play maker and only a mediocre ball handler at the 3. I'm not even sure he's more than a good - as opposed to "great" - outside shooter, 1.5 3PM per at 40%. If Odom could succeed at the position or Ariza could knock down the outside shot, no doubt they would be first and second on the depth chart.

And that's nothing to do with not giving the Lakers their due, the team in much improved from last season's Western Conference winning squad, and will be tough all year. (Though they did lay down in a Game Six disgrace, and in doing so showed less heart than the Celtics' EC opponents. We may not be able to agree about Antoine Walker around here but we can all agree on that.)

Re: antoine walker as a laker?
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2008, 12:27:41 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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There's a reason Ariza plays more MPG than Radmanovic.

Re: antoine walker as a laker?
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2008, 03:27:32 AM »

Offline LB3533

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Why doesn't Phil just start Lamar if RadMAN is so bad?

Re: antoine walker as a laker?
« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2008, 04:42:10 AM »

Offline Who

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Radmanovic has been the Lakers second (to Bynum) most dependable defensive player in the starting lineup so far this season. He's been a very good player for the Lakers.

It'll be interesting if he can keep it up, I've never seen anything close to this from him before, not with Seattle/Clippers/Lakers/National team.

Re: antoine walker as a laker?
« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2008, 06:06:25 AM »

Offline ridler2013

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Why doesn't Phil just start Lamar if RadMAN is so bad?

Maybe Phil is just so p---ed with Lamar holding back his game and I think that he is... Or he don't want Lamar to be tired and save him for the clutch time just like what Kobe is doing in the first half...

Re: antoine walker as a laker?
« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2008, 06:55:05 AM »

Offline kenmaine

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Question-
If I go away for say, three years, will I still see posts about Antoine when I come back?
I actually was thinking about him during last night's game- isn't he only a year older than PP?
I'd love to see the Lakers take him and Marbury, and throw in Eddy Curry.

Re: antoine walker as a laker?
« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2008, 07:33:56 PM »

Offline cornbreadsmart

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i have to admit. i'm just absolutely dreaming of antoine being a laker. beating him in the finals wearing that uni would be amazing.

Re: antoine walker as a laker?
« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2008, 08:00:33 PM »

Offline Redz

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Question-
If I go away for say, three years, will I still see posts about Antoine when I come back?


antoine in 3 years:
Yup