Was Antoine Walker ever good?

[nickagneta]

Udonis Haslem is a role player and never has been more than that. Antoine Walker has always been a good all around player. You cant compare the two players other than they both play PF.

No one in their right basketball mind can question whether Toine was ever "good". He was very talented player in this league for quite a while and his career was ruined because he was the first piece of a rebuilding franchise. He never had a veteran to take him under his wing. Toine was forced to grow up too quick and it hurt him in the long run.

It could also be argued that he never grew up as a player or a professional and that's why he fell in love with inefficiently shooting 3's, never working on his game or conditioning in the off season, and ignoring what some coaches told him to do on the court.

As for the "he was playing so many minutes he had to recover in the off season" remark your do realize that out of the 8 seasons Antoine played here he only average over 36.9 MPG in half those seasons. Here are his MPG averages for the seasons he was here in consecutive order:

36.2, 39.9, 36.9, 36.6, 41.9, 42, 41.5, 34.5.

As a comparison and maybe this isn't fair but Larry Bird every single off season of his career came back into camp having worked on something new and bettered his game every year. His MPG averages in consecutive order his first 8 years:

36, 39.5, 38, 37.7, 38.3, 39.5, 38, 40.6.

Not really all that different. but in those eight seasons Bird also averaged playing 16 playoff games per year and averaged over 40 MPG in every single playoff season he was in. Yet somehow he didn't have to recover from the beating he took because a week after the season ended he was working on perfecting his free throws one season and extending his range another season, and perfecting his left hand shots in the lane another and developing a new post move another year. he got better every year because he was mature and driven and professional.

So Larry averaged having longer seasons, shorter off seasons and yet didn't have to rest because of the beatings he took in a possibly more physical league. But he came back better every year.

What exactly was Walker's excuse again?

Hey I never tried to say Antoine was better than Larry Legend

Oh I know you didn't and even admitted that Larry was maybe a bad example of comparison but I hope you get the general jist of things.

[LarBrd33]

Udonis Haslem is a role player and never has been more than that. Antoine Walker has always been a good all around player. You cant compare the two players other than they both play PF.

No one in their right basketball mind can question whether Toine was ever "good". He was very talented player in this league for quite a while and his career was ruined because he was the first piece of a rebuilding franchise. He never had a veteran to take him under his wing. Toine was forced to grow up too quick and it hurt him in the long run.

Walker was a good player for his time, but wouldn't survive in today's NBA.  The game is too quick, the defenses are too complex, the players are too strong and athletic.  I'm afraid to say that as good as he was, he just wouldn't fit in against today's far superior talent. 

[Toine43]

All you need to know to answer this question (can't believe no one has posted this yet).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MI3sj3XKrQ&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2D19TpKQJ4&feature=related

[PSquared]

Udonis Haslem is a role player and never has been more than that. Antoine Walker has always been a good all around player. You cant compare the two players other than they both play PF.

No one in their right basketball mind can question whether Toine was ever "good". He was very talented player in this league for quite a while and his career was ruined because he was the first piece of a rebuilding franchise. He never had a veteran to take him under his wing. Toine was forced to grow up too quick and it hurt him in the long run.

Walker was a good player for his time, but wouldn't survive in today's NBA.  The game is too quick, the defenses are too complex, the players are too strong and athletic.  I'm afraid to say that as good as he was, he just wouldn't fit in against today's far superior talent. 

So "3-Time Allstar" Walker(and not the shell of himself we are seeing these days) wouldn't be successful these days 'cause of those reasons and not 'cause teams wouldn't let him be the man or anything LOGICAL like that?    Nice thinking there, larry.  

[LarBrd33]

Udonis Haslem is a role player and never has been more than that. Antoine Walker has always been a good all around player. You cant compare the two players other than they both play PF.

No one in their right basketball mind can question whether Toine was ever "good". He was very talented player in this league for quite a while and his career was ruined because he was the first piece of a rebuilding franchise. He never had a veteran to take him under his wing. Toine was forced to grow up too quick and it hurt him in the long run.

Walker was a good player for his time, but wouldn't survive in today's NBA.  The game is too quick, the defenses are too complex, the players are too strong and athletic.  I'm afraid to say that as good as he was, he just wouldn't fit in against today's far superior talent. 

So "3-Time Allstar" Walker(and not the shell of himself we are seeing these days) wouldn't be successful these days 'cause of those reasons and not 'cause teams wouldn't let him be the man or anything LOGICAL like that?    Nice thinking there, larry.  

Sure he was a "3-Time Allstar" when he played, but times have changed.  In Walker's heyday he was playing with guys like Alton Lister and Frank Brickowski... and going up against inferior competition like Mark West and Fred Roberts.   Bottom line... I'd like to see a Steve Scheffler defend a Dwight Howard if you get my drift.  Different time, different era, different league.  It's too big, strong and athletic now.  The game is too complex.  The defenses are too evolved.  It's not your older brother's NBA anymore.  Walker wouldn't stand a chance.   It's not even the same game anymore... all sorts of rule changes.  Like Rule 2 Section IV on block/charge clarification... or Rule 13 Section I on instant replay additions.   

Times have changed.  We can honor Antoine for being a solid player for his generation, but lets not get ridiculous... Walker would be outclassed by today's players.

[Redz]

Udonis Haslem is a role player and never has been more than that. Antoine Walker has always been a good all around player. You cant compare the two players other than they both play PF.

No one in their right basketball mind can question whether Toine was ever "good". He was very talented player in this league for quite a while and his career was ruined because he was the first piece of a rebuilding franchise. He never had a veteran to take him under his wing. Toine was forced to grow up too quick and it hurt him in the long run.

Walker was a good player for his time, but wouldn't survive in today's NBA.  The game is too quick, the defenses are too complex, the players are too strong and athletic.  I'm afraid to say that as good as he was, he just wouldn't fit in against today's far superior talent. 

So "3-Time Allstar" Walker(and not the shell of himself we are seeing these days) wouldn't be successful these days 'cause of those reasons and not 'cause teams wouldn't let him be the man or anything LOGICAL like that?    Nice thinking there, larry.  

Sure he was a "3-Time Allstar" when he played, but times have changed.  In Walker's heyday he was playing with guys like Alton Lister and Frank Brickowski... and going up against inferior competition like Mark West and Fred Roberts.   Bottom line... I'd like to see a Steve Scheffler defend a Dwight Howard if you get my drift.  Different time, different era, different league.  It's too big, strong and athletic now.  The game is too complex.  The defenses are too evolved.  It's not your older brother's NBA anymore.  Walker wouldn't stand a chance.   It's not even the same game anymore... all sorts of rule changes.  Like Rule 2 Section IV on block/charge clarification... or Rule 13 Section I on instant replay additions.   

Times have changed.  We can honor Antoine for being a solid player for his generation, but lets not get ridiculous... Walker would be outclassed by today's players.

You make it sound like he was shooting into peach baskets or something. 

[LarBrd33]

Udonis Haslem is a role player and never has been more than that. Antoine Walker has always been a good all around player. You cant compare the two players other than they both play PF.

No one in their right basketball mind can question whether Toine was ever "good". He was very talented player in this league for quite a while and his career was ruined because he was the first piece of a rebuilding franchise. He never had a veteran to take him under his wing. Toine was forced to grow up too quick and it hurt him in the long run.

Walker was a good player for his time, but wouldn't survive in today's NBA.  The game is too quick, the defenses are too complex, the players are too strong and athletic.  I'm afraid to say that as good as he was, he just wouldn't fit in against today's far superior talent. 

So "3-Time Allstar" Walker(and not the shell of himself we are seeing these days) wouldn't be successful these days 'cause of those reasons and not 'cause teams wouldn't let him be the man or anything LOGICAL like that?    Nice thinking there, larry.  

Sure he was a "3-Time Allstar" when he played, but times have changed.  In Walker's heyday he was playing with guys like Alton Lister and Frank Brickowski... and going up against inferior competition like Mark West and Fred Roberts.   Bottom line... I'd like to see a Steve Scheffler defend a Dwight Howard if you get my drift.  Different time, different era, different league.  It's too big, strong and athletic now.  The game is too complex.  The defenses are too evolved.  It's not your older brother's NBA anymore.  Walker wouldn't stand a chance.   It's not even the same game anymore... all sorts of rule changes.  Like Rule 2 Section IV on block/charge clarification... or Rule 13 Section I on instant replay additions.   

Times have changed.  We can honor Antoine for being a solid player for his generation, but lets not get ridiculous... Walker would be outclassed by today's players.

You make it sound like he was shooting into peach baskets or something. 

It was back in the old days when Bush was still president and the iPhone hadn't been invented yet.

[Redz]

Udonis Haslem is a role player and never has been more than that. Antoine Walker has always been a good all around player. You cant compare the two players other than they both play PF.

No one in their right basketball mind can question whether Toine was ever "good". He was very talented player in this league for quite a while and his career was ruined because he was the first piece of a rebuilding franchise. He never had a veteran to take him under his wing. Toine was forced to grow up too quick and it hurt him in the long run.

Walker was a good player for his time, but wouldn't survive in today's NBA.  The game is too quick, the defenses are too complex, the players are too strong and athletic.  I'm afraid to say that as good as he was, he just wouldn't fit in against today's far superior talent. 

So "3-Time Allstar" Walker(and not the shell of himself we are seeing these days) wouldn't be successful these days 'cause of those reasons and not 'cause teams wouldn't let him be the man or anything LOGICAL like that?    Nice thinking there, larry.  

Sure he was a "3-Time Allstar" when he played, but times have changed.  In Walker's heyday he was playing with guys like Alton Lister and Frank Brickowski... and going up against inferior competition like Mark West and Fred Roberts.   Bottom line... I'd like to see a Steve Scheffler defend a Dwight Howard if you get my drift.  Different time, different era, different league.  It's too big, strong and athletic now.  The game is too complex.  The defenses are too evolved.  It's not your older brother's NBA anymore.  Walker wouldn't stand a chance.   It's not even the same game anymore... all sorts of rule changes.  Like Rule 2 Section IV on block/charge clarification... or Rule 13 Section I on instant replay additions.   

Times have changed.  We can honor Antoine for being a solid player for his generation, but lets not get ridiculous... Walker would be outclassed by today's players.

You make it sound like he was shooting into peach baskets or something. 

It was back in the old days when Bush was still president and the iPhone hadn't been invented yet.

Scary, huh

[Roy Hobbs]

Udonis Haslem is a role player and never has been more than that. Antoine Walker has always been a good all around player. You cant compare the two players other than they both play PF.

No one in their right basketball mind can question whether Toine was ever "good". He was very talented player in this league for quite a while and his career was ruined because he was the first piece of a rebuilding franchise. He never had a veteran to take him under his wing. Toine was forced to grow up too quick and it hurt him in the long run.

Walker was a good player for his time, but wouldn't survive in today's NBA.  The game is too quick, the defenses are too complex, the players are too strong and athletic.  I'm afraid to say that as good as he was, he just wouldn't fit in against today's far superior talent. 

So "3-Time Allstar" Walker(and not the shell of himself we are seeing these days) wouldn't be successful these days 'cause of those reasons and not 'cause teams wouldn't let him be the man or anything LOGICAL like that?    Nice thinking there, larry.  

Sure he was a "3-Time Allstar" when he played, but times have changed.  In Walker's heyday he was playing with guys like Alton Lister and Frank Brickowski... and going up against inferior competition like Mark West and Fred Roberts.   Bottom line... I'd like to see a Steve Scheffler defend a Dwight Howard if you get my drift.  Different time, different era, different league.  It's too big, strong and athletic now.  The game is too complex.  The defenses are too evolved.  It's not your older brother's NBA anymore.  Walker wouldn't stand a chance.   It's not even the same game anymore... all sorts of rule changes.  Like Rule 2 Section IV on block/charge clarification... or Rule 13 Section I on instant replay additions.   

Times have changed.  We can honor Antoine for being a solid player for his generation, but lets not get ridiculous... Walker would be outclassed by today's players.

You make it sound like he was shooting into peach baskets or something. 

Some of those bricks could have done serious damage to a peach basket.

[LarBrd33]

Udonis Haslem is a role player and never has been more than that. Antoine Walker has always been a good all around player. You cant compare the two players other than they both play PF.

No one in their right basketball mind can question whether Toine was ever "good". He was very talented player in this league for quite a while and his career was ruined because he was the first piece of a rebuilding franchise. He never had a veteran to take him under his wing. Toine was forced to grow up too quick and it hurt him in the long run.

Walker was a good player for his time, but wouldn't survive in today's NBA.  The game is too quick, the defenses are too complex, the players are too strong and athletic.  I'm afraid to say that as good as he was, he just wouldn't fit in against today's far superior talent. 

So "3-Time Allstar" Walker(and not the shell of himself we are seeing these days) wouldn't be successful these days 'cause of those reasons and not 'cause teams wouldn't let him be the man or anything LOGICAL like that?    Nice thinking there, larry.  

Sure he was a "3-Time Allstar" when he played, but times have changed.  In Walker's heyday he was playing with guys like Alton Lister and Frank Brickowski... and going up against inferior competition like Mark West and Fred Roberts.   Bottom line... I'd like to see a Steve Scheffler defend a Dwight Howard if you get my drift.  Different time, different era, different league.  It's too big, strong and athletic now.  The game is too complex.  The defenses are too evolved.  It's not your older brother's NBA anymore.  Walker wouldn't stand a chance.   It's not even the same game anymore... all sorts of rule changes.  Like Rule 2 Section IV on block/charge clarification... or Rule 13 Section I on instant replay additions.   

Times have changed.  We can honor Antoine for being a solid player for his generation, but lets not get ridiculous... Walker would be outclassed by today's players.

You make it sound like he was shooting into peach baskets or something. 

It was back in the old days when Bush was still president and the iPhone hadn't been invented yet.

Scary, huh

TRL was still on the air back then...

[Chris]

Udonis Haslem is a role player and never has been more than that. Antoine Walker has always been a good all around player. You cant compare the two players other than they both play PF.

No one in their right basketball mind can question whether Toine was ever "good". He was very talented player in this league for quite a while and his career was ruined because he was the first piece of a rebuilding franchise. He never had a veteran to take him under his wing. Toine was forced to grow up too quick and it hurt him in the long run.

Walker was a good player for his time, but wouldn't survive in today's NBA.  The game is too quick, the defenses are too complex, the players are too strong and athletic.  I'm afraid to say that as good as he was, he just wouldn't fit in against today's far superior talent. 

So "3-Time Allstar" Walker(and not the shell of himself we are seeing these days) wouldn't be successful these days 'cause of those reasons and not 'cause teams wouldn't let him be the man or anything LOGICAL like that?    Nice thinking there, larry.  

Sure he was a "3-Time Allstar" when he played, but times have changed.  In Walker's heyday he was playing with guys like Alton Lister and Frank Brickowski... and going up against inferior competition like Mark West and Fred Roberts.   Bottom line... I'd like to see a Steve Scheffler defend a Dwight Howard if you get my drift.  Different time, different era, different league.  It's too big, strong and athletic now.  The game is too complex.  The defenses are too evolved.  It's not your older brother's NBA anymore.  Walker wouldn't stand a chance.   It's not even the same game anymore... all sorts of rule changes.  Like Rule 2 Section IV on block/charge clarification... or Rule 13 Section I on instant replay additions.   

Times have changed.  We can honor Antoine for being a solid player for his generation, but lets not get ridiculous... Walker would be outclassed by today's players.

You make it sound like he was shooting into peach baskets or something. 

No kidding.  In 2000-2001 and 2001-2002, when Walker was really in his prime, and had two of his best overall seasons, he was going up against guys like Garnett, McDyess, Brand, Dirk, Duncan, Jamison, Webber, Rasheed, and J. Oneal all in their primes.  I don't know, but I think that is pretty comparable competition and athleticism to what is out there now.

[Redz]

A very productive rookie class though:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1997_debut.html

[LarBrd33]

Udonis Haslem is a role player and never has been more than that. Antoine Walker has always been a good all around player. You cant compare the two players other than they both play PF.

No one in their right basketball mind can question whether Toine was ever "good". He was very talented player in this league for quite a while and his career was ruined because he was the first piece of a rebuilding franchise. He never had a veteran to take him under his wing. Toine was forced to grow up too quick and it hurt him in the long run.

Walker was a good player for his time, but wouldn't survive in today's NBA.  The game is too quick, the defenses are too complex, the players are too strong and athletic.  I'm afraid to say that as good as he was, he just wouldn't fit in against today's far superior talent. 

So "3-Time Allstar" Walker(and not the shell of himself we are seeing these days) wouldn't be successful these days 'cause of those reasons and not 'cause teams wouldn't let him be the man or anything LOGICAL like that?    Nice thinking there, larry.  

Sure he was a "3-Time Allstar" when he played, but times have changed.  In Walker's heyday he was playing with guys like Alton Lister and Frank Brickowski... and going up against inferior competition like Mark West and Fred Roberts.   Bottom line... I'd like to see a Steve Scheffler defend a Dwight Howard if you get my drift.  Different time, different era, different league.  It's too big, strong and athletic now.  The game is too complex.  The defenses are too evolved.  It's not your older brother's NBA anymore.  Walker wouldn't stand a chance.   It's not even the same game anymore... all sorts of rule changes.  Like Rule 2 Section IV on block/charge clarification... or Rule 13 Section I on instant replay additions.   

Times have changed.  We can honor Antoine for being a solid player for his generation, but lets not get ridiculous... Walker would be outclassed by today's players.

You make it sound like he was shooting into peach baskets or something. 

No kidding.  In 2000-2001 and 2001-2002, when Walker was really in his prime, and had two of his best overall seasons, he was going up against guys like Garnett, McDyess, Brand, Dirk, Duncan, Jamison, Webber, Rasheed, and J. Oneal all in their primes.  I don't know, but I think that is pretty comparable competition and athleticism to what is out there now.

Webber?  Are you talking about the guy on NBA TV post game shows?   Times have changed.  This isn't your older brother's NBA anymore.

[Chris]

Udonis Haslem is a role player and never has been more than that. Antoine Walker has always been a good all around player. You cant compare the two players other than they both play PF.

No one in their right basketball mind can question whether Toine was ever "good". He was very talented player in this league for quite a while and his career was ruined because he was the first piece of a rebuilding franchise. He never had a veteran to take him under his wing. Toine was forced to grow up too quick and it hurt him in the long run.

Walker was a good player for his time, but wouldn't survive in today's NBA.  The game is too quick, the defenses are too complex, the players are too strong and athletic.  I'm afraid to say that as good as he was, he just wouldn't fit in against today's far superior talent. 

So "3-Time Allstar" Walker(and not the shell of himself we are seeing these days) wouldn't be successful these days 'cause of those reasons and not 'cause teams wouldn't let him be the man or anything LOGICAL like that?    Nice thinking there, larry.  

Sure he was a "3-Time Allstar" when he played, but times have changed.  In Walker's heyday he was playing with guys like Alton Lister and Frank Brickowski... and going up against inferior competition like Mark West and Fred Roberts.   Bottom line... I'd like to see a Steve Scheffler defend a Dwight Howard if you get my drift.  Different time, different era, different league.  It's too big, strong and athletic now.  The game is too complex.  The defenses are too evolved.  It's not your older brother's NBA anymore.  Walker wouldn't stand a chance.   It's not even the same game anymore... all sorts of rule changes.  Like Rule 2 Section IV on block/charge clarification... or Rule 13 Section I on instant replay additions.   

Times have changed.  We can honor Antoine for being a solid player for his generation, but lets not get ridiculous... Walker would be outclassed by today's players.

You make it sound like he was shooting into peach baskets or something. 

No kidding.  In 2000-2001 and 2001-2002, when Walker was really in his prime, and had two of his best overall seasons, he was going up against guys like Garnett, McDyess, Brand, Dirk, Duncan, Jamison, Webber, Rasheed, and J. Oneal all in their primes.  I don't know, but I think that is pretty comparable competition and athleticism to what is out there now.

Webber?  Are you talking about the guy on NBA TV post game shows?   Times have changed.  This isn't your older brother's NBA anymore.

I am talking about the guy who was one of the best players in NBA history, who averaged 27pts, 11rbs, 4ast in 2000-2001.  I take him in his prime over just about any big man playing right now.

[LarBrd33]

Udonis Haslem is a role player and never has been more than that. Antoine Walker has always been a good all around player. You cant compare the two players other than they both play PF.

No one in their right basketball mind can question whether Toine was ever "good". He was very talented player in this league for quite a while and his career was ruined because he was the first piece of a rebuilding franchise. He never had a veteran to take him under his wing. Toine was forced to grow up too quick and it hurt him in the long run.

Walker was a good player for his time, but wouldn't survive in today's NBA.  The game is too quick, the defenses are too complex, the players are too strong and athletic.  I'm afraid to say that as good as he was, he just wouldn't fit in against today's far superior talent. 

So "3-Time Allstar" Walker(and not the shell of himself we are seeing these days) wouldn't be successful these days 'cause of those reasons and not 'cause teams wouldn't let him be the man or anything LOGICAL like that?    Nice thinking there, larry.  

Sure he was a "3-Time Allstar" when he played, but times have changed.  In Walker's heyday he was playing with guys like Alton Lister and Frank Brickowski... and going up against inferior competition like Mark West and Fred Roberts.   Bottom line... I'd like to see a Steve Scheffler defend a Dwight Howard if you get my drift.  Different time, different era, different league.  It's too big, strong and athletic now.  The game is too complex.  The defenses are too evolved.  It's not your older brother's NBA anymore.  Walker wouldn't stand a chance.   It's not even the same game anymore... all sorts of rule changes.  Like Rule 2 Section IV on block/charge clarification... or Rule 13 Section I on instant replay additions.   

Times have changed.  We can honor Antoine for being a solid player for his generation, but lets not get ridiculous... Walker would be outclassed by today's players.

You make it sound like he was shooting into peach baskets or something. 

No kidding.  In 2000-2001 and 2001-2002, when Walker was really in his prime, and had two of his best overall seasons, he was going up against guys like Garnett, McDyess, Brand, Dirk, Duncan, Jamison, Webber, Rasheed, and J. Oneal all in their primes.  I don't know, but I think that is pretty comparable competition and athleticism to what is out there now.

Webber?  Are you talking about the guy on NBA TV post game shows?   Times have changed.  This isn't your older brother's NBA anymore.

I am talking about the guy who was one of the best players in NBA history, who averaged 27pts, 11rbs, 4ast in 2000-2001.  I take him in his prime over just about any big man playing right now.

Hogwash.  Chris Webber couldn't survive in today's NBA.  He tried last year and averaged 3.9 points and 3.6 rebounds.  And I bet if you asked him he'd say, "The game is just too big, strong, athletic and fast for me these days.  I can't survive in today's NBA.  I was a good player for my generation, but... this isn't your older brother's NBA anymore".   Just like Walker the game passed them by.