Patrick O'bryant

[jgod213]

What I don't understand is why the only time we should be evaluating his performance was when he was playing with three Hall of Famers in meaningless exhibition games in early September. Why exactly is that they only time we are supposed to judge his ability, heart, talent and conditioning in. He was playing against players who weren't at their season playing peak and with players that could make just about anyone that played with them look extraordinarily better than they actually are. I find the concept of only judging POB during just this time period odd, and extremely biased in favor of POB.

The coaches and talent evaluators and scouts take that bias out of the equation and judge the kid based on his entire history and all his playing time, not just when he played his best. We can not judge Tony Allen and what to expect out of him based solely on 20 games he played before injuring himself in 2007. His entire career must be judged to adequately determine his true ability. As this year has shown, Tony is no that player from that 20 games. His ability lies somewhere between those 20 games and the clueless kid he was when he came into the league.

Same goes for POB. Problem with that is except for those 2 or 3 exhibition games, O'Bryant has never really showed anything whether at Golden Sate, college or here. Reports are Nellie expected him to dominate the NBDL and he didn't even come close to that.

I just think it not exactly the best gauge of POB's total package to ignore 99% of what he has shown and concentrate on the 2% that was those 2-3 exhibition games he played with 3 HoF players and against weak competition.

Ah, it's an Internet phenomenon. If you threw in with Danny without any prior knowledge of the trail Paddy's left in college and at Golden State, then you're naturally going to want to skew the statistics.

I don't necessarily disagree that on his face, Paddy was worth taking a chance on. But clearly, Ainge didn't do his homework on this one - didn't talk to the people who saw nonentities like Paul Miller dominate Paddy in the Missouri Valley, etc. If he had, he would have recognized this deal for the monsterous longshot that it was.

And remains.

Statements like these i find to be quite ridiculus and actually a little funny.

You honestly think that Danny Ainge - excuse me - executive of the year Danny Ainge, whose job it is to compile scouting information and assess talent at naueseum, just went on some type of gut feeling when he inked POB?  "Screw watching tape on the kid, he's 7 feet tall and he sounds Irish, let's grab this guy."

Obviously Danny saw something in this kid that he really liked (after what i would assume to be hours upon hours of research and conversation).  The problem seems to be the kid doesn't play with a big man's vigor/attitude/swagger (i.e. Mr. Perkins).  I think it's reasonable to assume that, if POB can't get that out of Boston while practicing with 2 of the league's most intesnse big men, along with a couple of fighters in Leon and Baby, then he aint ever gonna get it.

Perhaps he won't pan out this year, and if that's the case we will need to look into a big man for the stretch run, but i have no problem with having a big man project on the roster.  Remember what Perk looked/played like for his first several seasons? I'm hoping that after they get this kid in the weight room and on the track for a while he'll develope physically in a similar way to Perk.

[xmuscularghandix]

What I don't understand is why the only time we should be evaluating his performance was when he was playing with three Hall of Famers in meaningless exhibition games in early September. Why exactly is that they only time we are supposed to judge his ability, heart, talent and conditioning in. He was playing against players who weren't at their season playing peak and with players that could make just about anyone that played with them look extraordinarily better than they actually are. I find the concept of only judging POB during just this time period odd, and extremely biased in favor of POB.

The coaches and talent evaluators and scouts take that bias out of the equation and judge the kid based on his entire history and all his playing time, not just when he played his best. We can not judge Tony Allen and what to expect out of him based solely on 20 games he played before injuring himself in 2007. His entire career must be judged to adequately determine his true ability. As this year has shown, Tony is no that player from that 20 games. His ability lies somewhere between those 20 games and the clueless kid he was when he came into the league.

Same goes for POB. Problem with that is except for those 2 or 3 exhibition games, O'Bryant has never really showed anything whether at Golden Sate, college or here. Reports are Nellie expected him to dominate the NBDL and he didn't even come close to that.

I just think it not exactly the best gauge of POB's total package to ignore 99% of what he has shown and concentrate on the 2% that was those 2-3 exhibition games he played with 3 HoF players and against weak competition.

Ah, it's an Internet phenomenon. If you threw in with Danny without any prior knowledge of the trail Paddy's left in college and at Golden State, then you're naturally going to want to skew the statistics.

I don't necessarily disagree that on his face, Paddy was worth taking a chance on. But clearly, Ainge didn't do his homework on this one - didn't talk to the people who saw nonentities like Paul Miller dominate Paddy in the Missouri Valley, etc. If he had, he would have recognized this deal for the monsterous longshot that it was.

And remains.

Statements like these i find to be quite ridiculus and actually a little funny.

You honestly think that Danny Ainge - excuse me - executive of the year Danny Ainge, whose job it is to compile scouting information and assess talent at naueseum, just went on some type of gut feeling when he inked POB?  "Screw watching tape on the kid, he's 7 feet tall and he sounds Irish, let's grab this guy."

Obviously Danny saw something in this kid that he really liked (after what i would assume to be hours upon hours of research and conversation).  The problem seems to be the kid doesn't play with a big man's vigor/attitude/swagger (i.e. Mr. Perkins).  I think it's reasonable to assume that, if POB can't get that out of Boston while practicing with 2 of the league's most intesnse big men, along with a couple of fighters in Leon and Baby, then he aint ever gonna get it.

Perhaps he won't pan out this year, and if that's the case we will need to look into a big man for the stretch run, but i have no problem with having a big man project on the roster.  Remember what Perk looked/played like for his first several seasons? I'm hoping that after they get this kid in the weight room and on the track for a while he'll develope physically in a similar way to Perk.

TP

[albert]

What I don't understand is why the only time we should be evaluating his performance was when he was playing with three Hall of Famers in meaningless exhibition games in early September. Why exactly is that they only time we are supposed to judge his ability, heart, talent and conditioning in. He was playing against players who weren't at their season playing peak and with players that could make just about anyone that played with them look extraordinarily better than they actually are. I find the concept of only judging POB during just this time period odd, and extremely biased in favor of POB.

The coaches and talent evaluators and scouts take that bias out of the equation and judge the kid based on his entire history and all his playing time, not just when he played his best. We can not judge Tony Allen and what to expect out of him based solely on 20 games he played before injuring himself in 2007. His entire career must be judged to adequately determine his true ability. As this year has shown, Tony is no that player from that 20 games. His ability lies somewhere between those 20 games and the clueless kid he was when he came into the league.

Same goes for POB. Problem with that is except for those 2 or 3 exhibition games, O'Bryant has never really showed anything whether at Golden Sate, college or here. Reports are Nellie expected him to dominate the NBDL and he didn't even come close to that.

I just think it not exactly the best gauge of POB's total package to ignore 99% of what he has shown and concentrate on the 2% that was those 2-3 exhibition games he played with 3 HoF players and against weak competition.

Ah, it's an Internet phenomenon. If you threw in with Danny without any prior knowledge of the trail Paddy's left in college and at Golden State, then you're naturally going to want to skew the statistics.

I don't necessarily disagree that on his face, Paddy was worth taking a chance on. But clearly, Ainge didn't do his homework on this one - didn't talk to the people who saw nonentities like Paul Miller dominate Paddy in the Missouri Valley, etc. If he had, he would have recognized this deal for the monsterous longshot that it was.

And remains.

Statements like these i find to be quite ridiculus and actually a little funny.

You honestly think that Danny Ainge - excuse me - executive of the year Danny Ainge, whose job it is to compile scouting information and assess talent at naueseum, just went on some type of gut feeling when he inked POB?  "Screw watching tape on the kid, he's 7 feet tall and he sounds Irish, let's grab this guy."

Obviously Danny saw something in this kid that he really liked (after what i would assume to be hours upon hours of research and conversation).  The problem seems to be the kid doesn't play with a big man's vigor/attitude/swagger (i.e. Mr. Perkins).  I think it's reasonable to assume that, if POB can't get that out of Boston while practicing with 2 of the league's most intesnse big men, along with a couple of fighters in Leon and Baby, then he aint ever gonna get it.

Perhaps he won't pan out this year, and if that's the case we will need to look into a big man for the stretch run, but i have no problem with having a big man project on the roster.  Remember what Perk looked/played like for his first several seasons? I'm hoping that after they get this kid in the weight room and on the track for a while he'll develope physically in a similar way to Perk.

Exactly.

[albert]

So applying this rubric to Pat would mean that again, it's part of the coaching staff's fault. As I said before, he's fast enough when he gets going. The reason why he isn't getting time IMO is not because he's not trying hard enough but because the staff might have evaluated him somewhat incorrectly. Example #1: raw speed. He's faster and more athletic than Perk, but needs to work on his first step. Therefore, he needs to work on his explosiveness... are they saying this to him? Maybe not. Example #2: Defensive awareness. We already know he can block shots, but the problems I saw in the preseason games was that he didn't know where to go on either offense or defense.. the run-and-gun mentality basically carried over. Is this a problem because he doesn't know the sets well enough or because he doesn't want to listen? I'd like to think the former. So let him work on the sets in practice, do everything you can to familiarize him with them. Is the staff doing this? Maybe, maybe not. I'm inclined to think they're not.

So, in summary, it's not "yes or no" but "case-by-case."

That's an extraordinary claim that would require extraordinary proof. Can we attribute the lack of success for any player who didn't succeed in the NBA to the lack of good coaching? The idea that the coaching staff is not teaching him the sets well enough is bizarre. What I saw was a guy who has a very common problem: he can't simultaneously keep the awareness of his man and of the ball. That has nothing to do with the sets, he'd have the same problem in every scheme.

During the Summer it was said over and over that he busted in the Warriors because of Don Nelson. If the same happens here is because of Doc? What if he goes to Europe and doesn't do very well either?

Sorry cordorobes I thought this thread was done but alas it is yet resurrected. I don't think it's too bizarre that the staff might not have taught him the sets well enough. The problem has cropped up with Pruitt too, and clearly you saw that it took time for the team to adapt last year even when they went to Europe to do it. I don't remember how far into the season it was, but KG was saying something about doing the D-sets "on his woman" which even after 12 years in the league at that point overwhelmingly suggests that the D and maybe even O schemes are fundamentally different than what he's been used to over his career.

So that point in mind it would be hard for pretty much anyone to get used to the sets, nevermind the rookies. Which is why I say that Baby and Powe lucked out last year because there were effectively only 12 guys on the roster, 1 of whom (Pollard) wasn't even able to play with the team for near 80% of the season. Well how do you think that would impact someone's playing time with the 1st or 2nd team?

So the whole problem like I was saying isn't this-or-that but a little bit of everything. He might not have the BBIQ to pick it up, but then again that's a pretty tall order for someone to just pick it up like that after being effectively shut out in his last team. Second thing, as far as his ability to be aware of his man goes, you might be right, but it might be the case that that could be remedied with a change in his defensive philosophy (i.e. integrate him more into the sets). I'd also lean towards him having a high BBIQ just for the fact that he's shown flashes of being a good outlet passer.

[NextCeltic34]

Just cut him. If he isn't going to play then he just wasting space on this team. We don't have the time to try and work with this kid. He will at best be an average backup center in this league. We need someone who could actually help this team try and win another championship. His 2nd year isn't guaranteed anyway so it's all good. I rather have Pollard over him.

[xmuscularghandix]

the celtics are treating him like a rookie, he has alot of potential. but we dont NEED him, powe perk and baby are playing good, along with KG thats 4 guys that we have in their at center for different points. if he's not ready he's not ready, who's to say that in the event of an injury he couldn't play really good. he's got to be better than pollard.

[rondilla]

I started a thread in the trades forum which touched upon this matter. In a perfectly Green world we would still have Al. Unfortunately, that is not the case. Sometimes I wonder if we would ahve been even better off if we got Garnett while keeping Al here, and filled Ray's spot with a solid vet 2 guard. It worked out fine anyways, so I'm not crying.

That being said, I would like to see O'Bryant out there. I think that he showed four things in the pre-season which made a positive impression:

1. He has athleticism. I was surprised by this. He's the kind of guy who can go track down an alleyoop pass thrown near the hoop and hammer it down. He's just a bit light in the pants at this point of his career.

2. He showed that he has a brain. I really liked his passing skills and overall court vision. He's a smart player, just raw at this time. You can train a smart player to be more disciplined and savvy. It is really hard to teach a dumb guy to play smart basketball.

3. He is very long. He is a true 7 footer with really long arms. You can't teach height.

4. He is a good offensive rebounder. Just seems to have a knack with regards to that.

What I didn't like was his unrefined post game. He really isn't much of a scorer beyond alley-oops and putbacks, though he showed that he can hit his free throws and the occasional jumper, which are good things.

The thing about the post game issue is that you never really know when it will click with a guy. Look at Leon Powe last season. He was simply awful in the low post, apart from put backs, early on. He was aggresive, but just didn't have good footwork or awareness. Then it just "clicked", and he was fine from then on. He is actually our best low post scorer now. Could the same sort of thing happen with O'Bryant? You don't know until you give him a shot.

We have Clifford Ray, and that is HUGE. I can't overstate his importance to this team. He can turn a 3/10 big into a 7/10 one. Perk, Leon and BBD owe a lot to Cliff's tutelage. None of them would anywhere near as good as they are if Cliff wasn't around. I think that O'Bryant has plenty of tools for Cliff to work with. More than the others, to be honest. Could Cliff turn POB into a solid player? Pretty good chance, IMO.

I'm more than willing to give this kid a shot. I also think that we aren't going to resign both BBD and Leon, so why not deal BBD to get us the big three that we need. My vote is to pry Julian Wright away from the Hornets.

[Chris]

Just cut him. If he isn't going to play then he just wasting space on this team. We don't have the time to try and work with this kid. He will at best be an average backup center in this league. We need someone who could actually help this team try and win another championship. His 2nd year isn't guaranteed anyway so it's all good. I rather have Pollard over him.

I have a feeling he will be first on the cutting block if they have a need for another roster spot.  Until then, there is no need to let him go.  Give him a chance to develop a little, and keep him as an extra body in practice.  He can keep the roster spot warm for someone better.

[Cman]

I also think that we aren't going to resign both BBD and Leon, so why not deal BBD to get us the big three that we need. My vote is to pry Julian Wright away from the Hornets.

Very interesting idea.  Wright would give the Cs the length at the 3 that is sorely needed.

[rondilla]

I also think that we aren't going to resign both BBD and Leon, so why not deal BBD to get us the big three that we need. My vote is to pry Julian Wright away from the Hornets.

Very interesting idea.  Wright would give the Cs the length at the 3 that is sorely needed.

Doing so would be a smart move for us. I think that the kid would be a good fit here. Can shoot the ball, has length and athleticism, is defensively oriented, came out of a good college program, and is on a rookie deal. I think that Pierce would make him his protege, too.

[dark_lord]

my biggest concern with POB is that he is very soft.  even some agile, athletic big men (like a camby) have some toughness.  POB hasnt played much in green, but in the games i saw him in GS, he always looked like the softest man on the court.  i like my big men to be tough.

[bucknersrevenge]

I also think that we aren't going to resign both BBD and Leon, so why not deal BBD to get us the big three that we need. My vote is to pry Julian Wright away from the Hornets.

Very interesting idea.  Wright would give the Cs the length at the 3 that is sorely needed.

Not that I don't like Wright as a young player but when I think about this team and where it's at right now(15-2) and the groove they're in length at the 3 is not something I feel that has been sorely missed at all. I'd say length up front has been missing too but Big Baby has been tremendous of late. I'm sorry but our supposed "length issues" have been far overrated around here. The number of teams with the requisite length to even bother us defensively(maybe...) is a small one. Outside of the Lakers and maybe the Clippers(who still aren't a good team anyway) I'm hard-pressed to really come up with any.

And despite the loss of many people's binky James Posey our team defense thus far has been every bit as good as it was last year. Our bench scoring has been even better than last year because it is far more vaersatile than it was last year. It's not merely dependant on 3-pt shooting anymore. And shockingly enough we still have PLENTY of perimeter shooting.

[xmuscularghandix]

too bad we can't send him down so he can for the utah flash's BIG THREE!

[Tr1boy]

though he only played like 4 mins he looked good. He was hustling even contesting three point shots most big man would just hope it misses.

He made a nice basket, nice pass to rondo for the missed dunk, set screens etc.

The pacers with foster, hibbert and rasho had too much height for powe and davis combo.

[Binky-King]

The thing about the post game issue is that you never really know when it will click with a guy. Look at Leon Powe last season. He was simply awful in the low post, apart from put backs, early on. He was aggresive, but just didn't have good footwork or awareness. Then it just "clicked", and he was fine from then on. He is actually our best low post scorer now. Could the same sort of thing happen with O'Bryant? You don't know until you give him a shot.

It didn't just click, Leon has always been a low post scorer. What happened is the coaches started trusting him enough to run sets for him during the game.

The greatest thing Pat has going for him is his length, he's pretty [dang] raw in every other area. I don't see the mentality or the skill set in him to be a good defensive rebounder or shot blocker.