KG's taunting

[crownsy]

how is KG any different than sheed?  what he curses a lot more, so it's more acceptable?

because sheed calls out officials and doesnt indiscriminately yell at other players or talk to himself?

my guess is garnett has some sort of diagnosed malady - like a lesser form of tourettes or something

Tourettes?  Maybe.  

You raise an interesting point about how KG's taunting is different than Rasheed.  I think it's in how they come across and are unconsciously perceived.  Rasheed's actions always seem self-justifying, crying out that the fault belongs to others and that he is not to blame.  KG's tirades, however, always seem self-directed.  He appears to be in his own world on the court.  Even his taunting seems directed at motivating himself and his team rather than at knocking down the other (as odd as that sounds).  And his language and profanity seem generally self-critical rather than self-justifying.

That may be a flimsy distinction, but over the course of a long career, I think referees and other players feel the difference and it influences their perceptions.  KG comes across as nuts and self-critical, not as belligerent and self-jutifying like Rasheed.

I'm guess I'm more interested in the phenomenon than in judging it or how it's being handled.  Do we now have the "KG rules" in the NBA?

I wouldn't call them "KG rules" since a ton of players get the benifit of the doubt at every turn.

I'd call it more of a "favored player status"

And, its stupid. but, it's a fact of life.

[BrickJames]

Rasheed's anger is always directed at officials, that's why he gets t'd up.  He almost never messes with other players, which seems kind of wimpy to me.  KG's emotion is usually directed at opposing players.

simply not true sir.  rasheed talks lots of trash to players.  he only gets whistled for questioning the (corrupt) refeering.  thats why you know about it.

[Roy Hobbs]

When exactly has Calderon whined or acted like he wasn't a man? You just made that up, right?

Watch the video, which is still on the front page.  Calderon is clearly yelling about it.

[Cman]

I wouldn't call them "KG rules" since a ton of players get the benifit of the doubt at every turn.

I'd call it more of a "favored player status"

And, its stupid. but, it's a fact of life.

It is indeed a fact of life.  Thank goodness Danny Ainge realizes this.  I recall a few years ago he said a team needs a superstar to win a championship.  He didn't elaborate why, but it is clear that one reason is you need a player that will get away with stuff and get calls from refs when needed.  Like it or not, it is just a fact of life in the NBA at this point.  If someone doesn't like it, they are free to stop buying tickets, watching games, etc and tuning in to college ball instead (I am sure we all have friends who do exactly this).  

[guava_wrench]

NO it's not fair, and yes he should have been T'd up, but the way he was acting (and playing) the other night was entertaining as all hell. 

Because of previously mentioned rules against taunting things like the Dikembe no-no finger wave, and the Chris Webber throat slash are not seen around the league any more.  The NBA wants vanilla - let the play do the talking (well, that and the cheerleaders and the jumbotron and the loudmouth MC).

I'm not sure why the NBA lets KG get away with it, but as long as they do, more power to KG and the Celts.

I think the justification for the taunting rules is not to make the league vanilla, but to have less fighting.

[cordobes]

When exactly has Calderon whined or acted like he wasn't a man? You just made that up, right?

Watch the video, which is still on the front page.  Calderon is clearly yelling about it.

Yeah, he was barking back at KG after the play, because he got an assist to a Kapono 3pt shot that went in. So, the guy stands up and he's whining and not acting like a man?

[BrickJames]

When exactly has Calderon whined or acted like he wasn't a man? You just made that up, right?

Watch the video, which is still on the front page.  Calderon is clearly yelling about it.

Yeah, he was barking back at KG after the play, because he got an assist to a Kapono 3pt shot that went in. So, the guy stands up and he's whining and not acting like a man?

Yeah seriously - KG taunts Calderon the length of the court for actually trying to block a shot, then Calderon makes a nice play and yells back at KG so that makes him a girl?  Homerism at its best...

[drza44]

Rasheed's anger is always directed at officials, that's why he gets t'd up.  He almost never messes with other players, which seems kind of wimpy to me.  KG's emotion is usually directed at opposing players.

Bingo.  There is actually very little to compare between KG and Sheed.  Sheed, for years, actively and constantly went after the refs in extremely confrontational ways.  These weren't just "who me?!?" or "bad call!", they were chase-the-ref-down-and-loom-over-him-screaming tirades.  And they were definitely meant to intimidate the refs.  I'm not saying Sheed is a bad person for doing this, as it's his on-court persona and in many cases he probably has a point.  But he's earned a short fuse from the refs for this, similar to how Artest has done (legitimate threat of violence) and Rodman did back in the day (with a barrage of antics).

KG's never done anything remotely like this.  He screams at himself all game, and gets into at worst verbal confrontations with opponents.  Talking a lot of trash to your opponents isn't in the same stratosphere as what some others have done to get themselves on thin ice with the refs.

[GroverTheClover]

The fact that KG did not get T-ed up shows how much the refs in this league play favorites. Don't get me wrong, his taunting fired up the team and the crowd, but the refs SHOULD enforce the rules uniformly. I have no problem with trash talking rules are rules.

[Birdbrain]

You don't have to look very hard to see the difference between KG and Sheed.  One is completely worthless human being the other curses a lot.....

[crownsy]

When exactly has Calderon whined or acted like he wasn't a man? You just made that up, right?

Watch the video, which is still on the front page.  Calderon is clearly yelling about it.

Yeah, he was barking back at KG after the play, because he got an assist to a Kapono 3pt shot that went in. So, the guy stands up and he's whining and not acting like a man?

Yeah seriously - KG taunts Calderon the length of the court for actually trying to block a shot, then Calderon makes a nice play and yells back at KG so that makes him a girl?  Homerism at its best...

i think roy is reffering to the part where he starts yelling to the ref and pointing at KG, clearly asking for the T, right ater the full court pressure and before the pass for the three.

[jambr380]

KG was taunting, but not like Dikembe taunted. Dikembe would wave his finger after he blocked a shot, acting like more of a "man" than the other player (btw, it took the league a while to finally start calling technicals on him for doing this- KG just did it this once). KG was just being crazy, playing intense defense during a big part of the game. For the refs to "T" KG up there would have taken away from the competitive spirit of the game.

As for officials favoring KG- all star players get some star treatment. Reggie Miller used to up fake and get a foul on his jumpshot evertime- same with Paul when he goes into the lane. Then you have guys like Kobe and AI who travel everytime they take the ball to the hoop. And we can talk about the "3 second call" if you want.

This was a great player being competitive- that's how I see it.

[TheRev72]

I think KG's language and taunting have to be analyzed somewhat differently than just as "star treatment."  Most of the star treatement referred to in this thread involves foul calls or rules (travelling, etc.) that are part of the play of the game.  KG's behavior is of a categorically different variety - it does not involve the play or foul calls.  It is "extracurricular" activity that he seems able to get away with when other players aren't - even star players.  He seemingly has become a category unto himself with regard to the rules for language and taunting.  I find that interesting. 

[LarBrd33]

I kind of felt like Mutumbo's finger waiving was slightly different.  Mutumbo would block a shot and wave his finger in the player's face.   Obviously the league told him that was no longer appropriate and he now waves his finger toward the audience instead as a "celebration" instead of a taunt.

Here's my question... if Mutumbo instead decided to wave his finger BEFORE a shot... is that taunting or trash talking/challenging?  Is there a difference or is it the same?  I kinda feel like it's different.  

If Mutumbo rejects a guy and then waves a finger it's like saying, "not in my house, little man!".  = Taunting

But if he waves it before the shot it's like saying, "Bring it on, little man".   = trash talking (in my opinion)

I saw KG's antics as more trash talking than taunting.   He does this kind of stuff pretty frequently and it definitely grates on fans of opposing teams.  When KG gets down on the ground and starts crawling on his knees it drives my anti-Boston friend crazy.  He see's it as immature trash talking.  But we know this is just KG getting amped up and his insane-o way of saying "BRING IT ON!"...   I forget the player, but earlier in the game KG challenged some guard to score on him.  He was running his mouth, got in a stance and essentially dared the guard to score.  The guard caught KG flatfooted and converted a layup in KG's face.   It was basically the same thing with Calderon.  KG was basically daring the Raptors to score.   Is that taunting or trash talking?  Not sure.    

I just want to say one last thing on this.  If we had a microphone on the court the game would have be televised on HBO.  These guys talk some foul stuff during a game.  Anyone who has had courtside seats can hear the kind of stuff some of these guys say to each other.  Superstars like Jordan and Bird were well known for their "trash talk".   I use to go to Sonic games and listening to Gary Payton in his prime was hilariously filthy.  KG is one of those players who never shuts up.  If you watch it on TV you see his lips moving, but you aren't hearing the crap he's saying.  The refs hear it and they ignore it.  It's part of the game.  I think maybe the refs decided to lump the Calderon antics into the same thing.  The only difference was that he was waving his fingers/hands in Calderon's face.   I figure the league will tell KG, "don't do that again", but I can't fault them for letting the guys play in a crucial point of the game.

BTW one of my most vivid memories of Payton in his prime came in a game when Seattle was playing Sacramento and a rookie Jason Williams.   The Glove was up in Williams face, going off and doing everything in his power to dare the kid to score.  Running his mouth, running his mouth... and then Williams completely burned a flatfooted Payton and Payton just stood there like, "what?... the nerve".   It was awesome.  Same thing happened to KG earlier in the game.  It's not like it always works out. 

[moiso]

I don't think Caleron was whining, just asking for a call that should have been made.  No different from yelling out 3 seconds when a player wants that call.