Come on Fearless Leader!!

[crownsy]

I'm not really concerned with his shooting woes. He'll come out of that. He is a great scorer. I just don't think that you can say he is doing a great job defensively because he is getting torched out there. He is rebounding fine. He even seems to be passing fine. He just isn't intense on the defensive end and that's what makes this team great. KG brings the defensive intensity no matter what. If his shot is falling then it's a bonus. I've watched every game PP has played for years, and this isn't the same intense PP we saw last year.

come on, how is he getting tourched defensivly EJ, thats just not true.

He's played well against everyone except granger, who had just a heck of a game, no one was stopping him that night, and prince who he couldn't gaurd due to foul trouble, 2 of which were crap. You could give R.J and ok night for the bucks if you being generous, though he was under his season averages.

meanwhile, he shut down lebron, making him shoot a increidly ineffecnt prcentage for 22 points, killed deng, shut arrtest down, making him take long 3 pointers he clanged all night, played well against the green of the thunder too.

and, his rebound and assist numbers are very good.

Your going to have to bring me something better than " Trust me, i see it, he's not putting the effort in", because I've seen no lack of effort on defense or offense. I've seen a bad shooting slump, no doubt, but how can him playing well against 4 SF's, 2 of whom are among the top 10 in the game (one the clear #1) be offset by granger having a good night and prince dropping 20+ while he was on the bench?

even giving RJ a good game, so far:

played well:

Lebron
Arttest
Deng
Green

guys who had good nights:

Granger ( who tourched all comers, Ta included. sometimes you just have to tip your hat. That kids a stud, and he had a night to remeber.)
Prince (played hardley any minutes)
RJ: 20 points, still shot under his average percentage.




We're all entitled to our eyes on view of course, but i'm sorry, i just don't have any common ground on this part of you anylisis. and having watched almost every game of paul's career, i'm going to have to vehmently disagree with your take on him so far, effort wise.

 His effort is thier on both ends, the results aren't on offense, but on defense, he's playing very well.

[SShorefan 3.0]

I thought this thread was going to be about Jeff.  What a let down. 

[EJPLAYA]

Let's see. Granger torched him, Prince torched him, Jefferson torched him. Deng and Artest play themselves out of games so I don't give Pierce much credit for that. A little, but not that his defense caused that problem. He had a solid game against Lebron, however Lebron was really getting by him at will and not getting his usual "Jordan" calls at the rim. That has more to do with it than his great D against him.

So even 3 out of 7 games he goes against lesser talent that an agressive style of play would have helped, he doesn't step up. When you are struggling on the offensive end you HAVE to turn it up on the defensive end. PP isn't doing that. You know that he isn't putting the same kind of effort out there that KG or Perk is. Last year he was. I am not trying to rip him to shreds. I know he isn't going to stay in this offensive funk. I think he is doing pretty well in the other couple columns, but you can't say the guy is giving it the same level of effort on the defensive end of the floor. You can see it in his face when he is getting lit up. He acts like it is no big deal. I know when I am playing pickup and a guy starts lighting me up I get real intense real fast. Last year so did PP. My only question on this thread is why?!

[crownsy]

Let's see. Granger torched him, Prince torched him, Jefferson torched him. Deng and Artest play themselves out of games so I don't give Pierce much credit for that. A little, but not that his defense caused that problem. He had a solid game against Lebron, however Lebron was really getting by him at will and not getting his usual "Jordan" calls at the rim. That has more to do with it than his great D against him.

So even 3 out of 7 games he goes against lesser talent that an agressive style of play would have helped, he doesn't step up. When you are struggling on the offensive end you HAVE to turn it up on the defensive end. PP isn't doing that. You know that he isn't putting the same kind of effort out there that KG or Perk is. Last year he was. I am not trying to rip him to shreds. I know he isn't going to stay in this offensive funk. I think he is doing pretty well in the other couple columns, but you can't say the guy is giving it the same level of effort on the defensive end of the floor. You can see it in his face when he is getting lit up. He acts like it is no big deal. I know when I am playing pickup and a guy starts lighting me up I get real intense real fast. Last year so did PP. My only question on this thread is why?!

1. granger tourched everyone.

2. He only played 25 minutes. Prince tourched TA. you can't play bad defense from the bench, and even sheed was laughing at the offical on the 2nd and third fouls that sent him to the bench for the first half. (the phantom one on him that should have been on perk ticked doc off so much he picked up a Tech, somethign doc RARLEY does.)

3. How did jefferson "tourch" him? he had 20 points on 48% shooting, both of which are below his season averages. apperntly your defintion of tourched is alot less than mine. it seems to be fairly low.

4. So, the great defensive preformances don't count. gotcha. convient for your argument, that.

your a tough man to please EJ, he does great against 3 of the top 10 SF's in the leauge, its because they played like crap. Granger goes out of his mind, hitting contested jumpers over everyone on the C's roster, and its due to pierce's defense, while prince tourches TA, and somehow thats paul's fault from the bench. 

[makaveli]

The refs gave him trouble, I couldn't believe when the screen showed 3rd foul. Prince just made everything
One player you don't have to worry about is Paul Pierce

[crownsy]

The refs gave him trouble, I couldn't believe when the screen showed 3rd foul. Prince just made everything
One player you don't have to worry about is Paul Pierce

you know its bad when sheed looks at the offical after benifiting from the call and starts laughing. Thats got to be a bad feeling as a ref, when the player who got the call thinks you screwed up. 

[EJPLAYA]

Let's see. Granger torched him, Prince torched him, Jefferson torched him. Deng and Artest play themselves out of games so I don't give Pierce much credit for that. A little, but not that his defense caused that problem. He had a solid game against Lebron, however Lebron was really getting by him at will and not getting his usual "Jordan" calls at the rim. That has more to do with it than his great D against him.

So even 3 out of 7 games he goes against lesser talent that an agressive style of play would have helped, he doesn't step up. When you are struggling on the offensive end you HAVE to turn it up on the defensive end. PP isn't doing that. You know that he isn't putting the same kind of effort out there that KG or Perk is. Last year he was. I am not trying to rip him to shreds. I know he isn't going to stay in this offensive funk. I think he is doing pretty well in the other couple columns, but you can't say the guy is giving it the same level of effort on the defensive end of the floor. You can see it in his face when he is getting lit up. He acts like it is no big deal. I know when I am playing pickup and a guy starts lighting me up I get real intense real fast. Last year so did PP. My only question on this thread is why?!

1. granger tourched everyone.

2. He only played 25 minutes. Prince tourched TA. you can't play bad defense from the bench, and even sheed was laughing at the offical on the 2nd and third fouls that sent him to the bench for the first half. (the phantom one on him that should have been on perk ticked doc off so much he picked up a Tech, somethign doc RARLEY does.)

3. How did jefferson "tourch" him? he had 20 points on 48% shooting, both of which are below his season averages. apperntly your defintion of tourched is alot less than mine. it seems to be fairly low.

4. So, the great defensive preformances don't count. gotcha. convient for your argument, that.

your a tough man to please EJ, he does great against 3 of the top 10 SF's in the leauge, its because they played like crap. Granger goes out of his mind, hitting contested jumpers over everyone on the C's roster, and its due to pierce's defense, while prince tourches TA, and somehow thats paul's fault from the bench. 

We're obviously in agreement as to Granger.

Jefferson torched him because he hit 14 straight points on him in about a 3 min stretch. Paul did absolutely nothing about it defensively, nor did he act like he cared he was getting torched.

Artest launching bad shots like usual versus posting PP up does not qualify PP as having played great defense. That is what Artest does half the time. Same goes for Deng. 80% of the time he is invisible and the other 20% he looks dominant. It wasn't PP's defense. Deng just wasn't agressive.

He played solid against Lebron, however nothing spectacular. Lebron was taking him to the basket at will. KG and Perk's defense at the rim was bailing him out.

As far as Prince goes, you're wrong. PP was guarding him the majority of the time that Prince was going off. He was late rotating out to Prince and showed very little effort in running out to him. Most of his open shots were with Paul on the floor. Go back and watch the tape! So one of his fouls was a bad call. You can say that every game. 3 of them were not, and it was his being lazy and reaching versus getting his feet in position that got him those fouls, so it was the same cause/result.

Once again. I am commenting more on PP's attitude versus his ability. We know he can do it if he wants. I don't think wanting him to be the leader and setting a KG type example is being too hard to please.

[ma11l]

Let's see. Granger torched him, Prince torched him, Jefferson torched him. Deng and Artest play themselves out of games so I don't give Pierce much credit for that. A little, but not that his defense caused that problem. He had a solid game against Lebron, however Lebron was really getting by him at will and not getting his usual "Jordan" calls at the rim. That has more to do with it than his great D against him.

So even 3 out of 7 games he goes against lesser talent that an agressive style of play would have helped, he doesn't step up. When you are struggling on the offensive end you HAVE to turn it up on the defensive end. PP isn't doing that. You know that he isn't putting the same kind of effort out there that KG or Perk is. Last year he was. I am not trying to rip him to shreds. I know he isn't going to stay in this offensive funk. I think he is doing pretty well in the other couple columns, but you can't say the guy is giving it the same level of effort on the defensive end of the floor. You can see it in his face when he is getting lit up. He acts like it is no big deal. I know when I am playing pickup and a guy starts lighting me up I get real intense real fast. Last year so did PP. My only question on this thread is why?!

1. granger tourched everyone.

2. He only played 25 minutes. Prince tourched TA. you can't play bad defense from the bench, and even sheed was laughing at the offical on the 2nd and third fouls that sent him to the bench for the first half. (the phantom one on him that should have been on perk ticked doc off so much he picked up a Tech, somethign doc RARLEY does.)

3. How did jefferson "tourch" him? he had 20 points on 48% shooting, both of which are below his season averages. apperntly your defintion of tourched is alot less than mine. it seems to be fairly low.

4. So, the great defensive preformances don't count. gotcha. convient for your argument, that.

your a tough man to please EJ, he does great against 3 of the top 10 SF's in the leauge, its because they played like crap. Granger goes out of his mind, hitting contested jumpers over everyone on the C's roster, and its due to pierce's defense, while prince tourches TA, and somehow thats paul's fault from the bench. 

We're obviously in agreement as to Granger.

Jefferson torched him because he hit 14 straight points on him in about a 3 min stretch. Paul did absolutely nothing about it defensively, nor did he act like he cared he was getting torched.

Artest launching bad shots like usual versus posting PP up does not qualify PP as having played great defense. That is what Artest does half the time. Same goes for Deng. 80% of the time he is invisible and the other 20% he looks dominant. It wasn't PP's defense. Deng just wasn't agressive.

He played solid against Lebron, however nothing spectacular. Lebron was taking him to the basket at will. KG and Perk's defense at the rim was bailing him out.

As far as Prince goes, you're wrong. PP was guarding him the majority of the time that Prince was going off. He was late rotating out to Prince and showed very little effort in running out to him. Most of his open shots were with Paul on the floor. Go back and watch the tape! So one of his fouls was a bad call. You can say that every game. 3 of them were not, and it was his being lazy and reaching versus getting his feet in position that got him those fouls, so it was the same cause/result.

Once again. I am commenting more on PP's attitude versus his ability. We know he can do it if he wants. I don't thin wanting him to be the leader and setting a KG type example is being too hard to please.

How can you say that the players he is defending are taking bad shots is a negative on Pierce.  That means he was doing his job. 


Prince seemed to have a consistent night last night, and that means that Pierce wasn't on the court the whole time he was scoring. 


Obviously LeBron was penetrating at will, he can do that against anyone.

[greg683x]

He played solid against Lebron, however nothing spectacular. Lebron was taking him to the basket at will. KG and Perk's defense at the rim was bailing him out.


Obviously LeBron was penetrating at will, he can do that against anyone.


I completely agree with ma11's response.  Bringing up Lebron is silly.  I dont know if youve seen Lebron play before, but if you look or breathe on him the wrong way when hes driving to the basket a foul will be called.  Help defense is how you stop Lebron (or at least slow him down), and our front court defense is why he had such a hard time against us last year in the playoffs.  What youre expecting of Pierce would have him on the bench with 4 fouls before the end of the first quarter, and this year we have no James Posey to step right in.


It's been six games folks, slumps happen.  Can we please wait AT LEAST a half season before we throw the player we crowned a HERO less than 5 months ago, under the bus.

[nickagneta]

In ways you are all right about Pierce's defense.

For instance what I have seen is that Pierce gambles defensively early in games playing off his man, playing the passing lanes and attempting to double down low rather than stay on his man. RJ and Prince took advantage of that. However, the second half of the Milwaukee game Pierce didn't gamble or double down, he manned up and Jefferson's shooting suffered.

Last night, Prince shot well because Pierce played off him. That may very well have been by design as I would rather have Prince attempting 20-23 foot shots than Hamilton or Iverson or even Wallace. Notice Wallace's man played him tight outside and Iverson and Hamilton were smothered. When playing the Pistons if we can shut down Hamilton, Wallace and Iverson and force Prince to shoot long to beat us, I'm okay by that.

Pierce's defense in other games hasn't been as good as some of his teammates and, yes, players on some of those teams do tend to take themselves out of games but I don't think Pierce was playing poor defense, just not extraordinary defense.

His passing and rebounding have been excellent. Overall I don't see the disinterested viewpoint but I have seen a guy that defensively hasn't been up to the level that his team mates have been playing at at times. But I wouldn't say he has played bad defense.

[EJPLAYA]

In ways you are all right about Pierce's defense.

For instance what I have seen is that Pierce gambles defensively early in games playing off his man, playing the passing lanes and attempting to double down low rather than stay on his man. RJ and Prince took advantage of that. However, the second half of the Milwaukee game Pierce didn't gamble or double down, he manned up and Jefferson's shooting suffered.

Last night, Prince shot well because Pierce played off him. That may very well have been by design as I would rather have Prince attempting 20-23 foot shots than Hamilton or Iverson or even Wallace. Notice Wallace's man played him tight outside and Iverson and Hamilton were smothered. When playing the Pistons if we can shut down Hamilton, Wallace and Iverson and force Prince to shoot long to beat us, I'm okay by that.

Pierce's defense in other games hasn't been as good as some of his teammates and, yes, players on some of those teams do tend to take themselves out of games but I don't think Pierce was playing poor defense, just not extraordinary defense.

His passing and rebounding have been excellent. Overall I don't see the disinterested viewpoint but I have seen a guy that defensively hasn't been up to the level that his team mates have been playing at at times. But I wouldn't say he has played bad defense.

TP to you nick for at least understanding what I was saying. I'm not sure how many times I have to state to them that I am not saying PP should sit, or that he won't get it back, rather that as the leader of this team we need him to set a tone. KG and Perk do that. Rondo and Ray even to a lesser degree. PP doesn't this year. He did last year. He is just not playing with the fire that he had last year and I am not sure why. I am not saying that he didn't play mediocre defense at least. You just can't have your guy being the only one on the floor that is beating you and this is what is happening. Everyone else is playing the type of D that won us a championship last year and he isn't there yet. The question was simply why isn't he there yet?!

[EJPLAYA]

He played solid against Lebron, however nothing spectacular. Lebron was taking him to the basket at will. KG and Perk's defense at the rim was bailing him out.


Obviously LeBron was penetrating at will, he can do that against anyone.


I completely agree with ma11's response.  Bringing up Lebron is silly.  I dont know if youve seen Lebron play before, but if you look or breathe on him the wrong way when hes driving to the basket a foul will be called.  Help defense is how you stop Lebron (or at least slow him down), and our front court defense is why he had such a hard time against us last year in the playoffs.  What youre expecting of Pierce would have him on the bench with 4 fouls before the end of the first quarter, and this year we have no James Posey to step right in.


It's been six games folks, slumps happen.  Can we please wait AT LEAST a half season before we throw the player we crowned a HERO less than 5 months ago, under the bus.

No, writing 3 paragraphs about a post you deem silly is silly.

I don't care if you agree with me or not, but don't overstate my point. I never threw PP under the bus, rather wondered why he doesn't seem to be "in the defensive game" like the rest of the team is. Especially when he has been bad on the offensive end. His missed chippy layups and poor foul shooting are additional symptoms of not being that into it yet.

[cordobes]

I agree with EJ Playa and Nick regarding Pierce's defense. Especially in the first quarter versus the Bucks, where he was making half-hearted runs to close out Jefferson. He's not playing always with high intensity, sometimes he turns it on, sometimes he turns it off.

Offensively, I think he has been okay. Shooting slumps happen. As long as you keep playing the right way, they'll go away.

[ma11l]

Oh captain, my captain.  That's a heck of a fourth quarter.  Vintage Paul Pierce.  JO must've been having flashbacks to the third quarter of that playoff game against the Pacers a few years ago.

[EJPLAYA]

PP just proved me right in that one. For the first half and part way through the 3rd Q he was plugging along half-heartedly. Then finally THE TRUTH decided to show. He stepped up his D, got more aggressive out there, and took that game over. His D translated into offense. That is all I was looking for Paul! Next time let's do that in the first quarter. Then we don't have to win a nail biter.

When he plays his complete game he is really the man and truly our fearless leader...