Gary Payton's Take on Rondo

[MrTripleDouble10]

I don't think you can use stats too much with basketball, and I think that's what we're all doing here.  I think statistics have a valuable place in the game, but I think right now it's over-valued.

Remember in Game 6, in Detroit... the game was close towards the end, and Rondo buried about an 18-foot baseline jumper to essentially seal the game.  Like everyone else, I was nervous watching him shoot it, but it went in.  I also recall him draining two three-pointers in the first quarter of Game 5 against the Cavs I believe, when everyone else was struggling.

Point being, unlike baseball, stats in basketball aren't as telling as they seem.

[Sweet17]

 

how are  lay-up attempts useful in determining jumpshooting again?

Yeah mmkay. Explain to me how a layup from 14 feet out is so different from a jumpshot from 14 feet out. The 82games designation works fine. Just because you evidently don't like the results you shouldn't go into a fit.

Rondo can't shoot well from a distance - whether its a layup or jump shot or a free throw. That's the point. Whining about some valid statistic won't change that.

[crownsy]

how are  lay-up attempts useful in determining jumpshooting again?

Yeah mmkay. Explain to me how a layup from 14 feet out is so different from a jumpshot from 14 feet out. The 82games designation works fine. Just because you evidently don't like the results you shouldn't go into a fit.

Rondo can't shoot well from a distance - whether its a layup or jump shot or a free throw. That's the point. Whining about some valid statistic won't change that.

who's throwing a fit? All i said was layups aren't useful to me in deterining jumpshooting, which i consider something completly seperate, you have a diffrent take on the issue, fine, but i was pointing out that to me, a layup isn't a jumpshot, and i think it's silly to include them in a stat that you posted to be about how bad his jumpshooting is.

It's fine that you disagree, but don't try to label me with negitive behavior  just because i don't accept your view of the issue, if you please.



And no one  was arguing he was good at shooting from range, certainly not me. i think it's well established by now that he's not going to be a top jumpshooter in this league, and is not good right now. I think he can improve markedly, but he's not going to be some kind of deadly threat.

His ceiling, if we're lucky, is like parker or kidd, dangerous enough not to play off of, but not so deadly that he's a threat.

[cordobes]

Watching Rondo taking jump-shots is enough to realize he's a putrid jump-shooter.

[GroverTheClover]

Free throw's are a pretty good indicators of their shooting mechanics and ability. Watching Rondo clanging free throws still shows some cause for concern. I think his lack of a jumpshot is going to prevent him from fulfilling his potential as a top player at his position.

[zerophase]

the glove should not be bitter against boston- he got his ring after being traded away didn't he?

[LarBrd33]

I've watched every game and I'm pretty sure Rondo has missed every jump shot he has attempted this year.

Remind me again what he's supposed to average, guys?  I know a lot of you believe he's going to be an allstar.  Isn't he supposed to be averaging 15 points, 8 assists and 6 rebounds this year? 

I'm not complaining.  I like Rondo and we are winning. But I think he's about the same as he was last year.

[crownsy]

I've watched every game and I'm pretty sure Rondo has missed every jump shot he has attempted this year.

Remind me again what he's supposed to average, guys?  I know a lot of you believe he's going to be an allstar.  Isn't he supposed to be averaging 15 points, 8 assists and 6 rebounds this year? 

I'm not complaining.  I like Rondo and we are winning. But I think he's about the same as he was last year.

through 8 games, he's almost at that line, minus the scoring, and he was close to that before his horrid last game.

current line in the stats you listed:

9 PPG, 7 assists, 4 rebounds



his scoring is the same, assists are way up over career average of 4, rebounds are slightly up.

I think all rational B-Ball fans acknoledge that rondo needs to improve his jumper, but i don't see it as some all becoming negitive that some have made it. It sucks right now, he needs to improve it, along with FT shooting. But his court vision, hustle, on the ball defense, steals, and developing leadership are all more important to me on the whole.



also, why is  his offense being strictly tied to his jumpshot? his FG%, which of course includes what he's much better at, driving, is 54%, which is wayyy up from his career average of 40%. ill take that.

Also, considering espn, the heraled and the globe have been reporting this:

Rondo is apparently nursing an undisclosed injury, Celtics coach Doc Rivers to the Boston Herald.  We suspect that it's related to the ankle sprain he suffered in training camp, but that's simply speculation. He was spotted last night with ice on his left elbow pregame.

why wouldn't i expect his averages to go up as he gets over a nagging injury (or two? the elbow was new to me and disturbing in todays globe.)

I think 15 a night is pretty unreastic for a pass first PG who is the 4th option behind 3 HOF'ers, I'll be looking more for his steals, assists, opp. Efg%, and to some extent his boards.

a goo line for me would be 10ish PPG (close) 9-10 assists (getting thier) 2+ steals (got it already) and to continue his impact on opposing PG's shooting.

Rondo will never score a 15+ PPG average, nor should he, as long as our 3 HOF scorers are healthy. it would be foolish, and show he's forcing shots. He will have games where he goes off of course, but 15 a game average means SOMEONE is losing scoring, and personally i'd rather have KG,RA, and pierce handle the offense, while rondo focuses on passing and defense.

[LarBrd33]

he'll never be an allstar

[crownsy]

he'll never be an allstar

I'd rather wait and see, rather than take this snap and incredibly pessimistic view of a third year player . you listed a line you thought he had no shot at, and yet he's reaosnably close to it already minus scoring. He's only one assist and 2 rebs short of your "out thier" line you credited us crazy's with.

I agree the "he's an all-star this year!!!" talk is wayyy premature and he probley won't get thier until year 4-or 5+, but to say he'd never make an allstar team? wow. glass half empty huh?

considering all the tools he has, and the strides he's making in every area not named "jumpshot" i'm much more hesitant to write off his entie career, allstar wise, at the beginning of his thrid year, but thats just me. Considering he's known as one of the biggest gym rats on the team, i fail to see why i can't belive the jumpshot will improve. It will never be deadly, but i don't think its unreasonable to think it will show improvemtn, people forget it showed alot of improvment from year 1 to 2. That improvement might have been from "atrocious" to "not good at all" but it's still improvment lol.

I do agree he won't be an allstar this year or next for sure, he needs one of the GPA combo to step away before he can even begin to crack the discusion form the celtics. Rondo won't be making an allstar team with 3 HOF'ers ahead of him on his own team, that is for sure.

[LarBrd33]

I just mean to say that there are other point guards his age in the east who are better... all with the same potential to improve.  Rondo is good though.

[crownsy]

I just mean to say that there are other point guards his age in the east who are better... all with the same potential to improve.  Rondo is good though.

True, but im not sure if that negates rajon from an allstar team. Some years guys will be up, some years they will be down.

Now, if your saying he won't be a "superstar" kind of all star, I.E a guy like wade, or lebron, or kobe, KG, pierce or any of the other "pencil me in 10 years running" kind of talents, that im in complete agreement on.

Rajon is going to be an excellent player, but i don't think he's ever going to be some sort of worldbeating talent like those guys. I do however think he'll snag a few all star nods later in his carear, as he starts to be seen as the leader on (hopefully) this team as GPA phases out.

but if your trying to say he won't be like, a CP3-esq guy (which i have seen as an opinion around the blog) then that i'm with you on.

He's going to be a very good starter, but i don't think he's going to be a superstar, unless he suddenly highlanders ray allen's shooting touch.

[LarBrd33]

Did David Wesley ever make an allstar team?  I forget.

[BballTim]

I just mean to say that there are other point guards his age in the east who are better... all with the same potential to improve.  Rondo is good though.

  How many pgs are there in the east that are Rondo's age that are better than him?

[Redz]

I just mean to say that there are other point guards his age in the east who are better... all with the same potential to improve.  Rondo is good though.

True, but im not sure if that negates rajon from an allstar team. Some years guys will be up, some years they will be down.

Now, if your saying he won't be a "superstar" kind of all star, I.E a guy like wade, or lebron, or kobe, KG, pierce or any of the other "pencil me in 10 years running" kind of talents, that im in complete agreement on.

Rajon is going to be an excellent player, but i don't think he's ever going to be some sort of worldbeating talent like those guys. I do however think he'll snag a few all star nods later in his carear, as he starts to be seen as the leader on (hopefully) this team as GPA phases out.

but if your trying to say he won't be like, a CP3-esq guy (which i have seen as an opinion around the blog) then that i'm with you on.

He's going to be a very good starter, but i don't think he's going to be a superstar, unless he suddenly highlanders ray allen's shooting touch.

He's also never going to be the kind of guy who gets voted in just because he is who he is (ala Vince Carter)