Gary Payton's Take on Rondo

[KCattheStripe]

let's see ....... for all his desperate attempts to latch on to a contender late in his career, Payton never did win a ring ......... maybe some jealousy seeping out there Gary, huh ??

He won with Miami two years ago.

OK ......... i missed that one. how big a role did Payton have on that team ?

still a cheap shot remark about a very talented player (Rondo) who is succeeding by playing to his strengths and not trying to do things he can't. i call that smart basketball. Rondo is the best set-up guard the Celts have had since Tiny. i love watching the guy play.

He hit a big big shot... in game 6?

[KCattheStripe]

 We know cooz has loved him since preseason year 1.

That's only because Rondo stole his ball fake under the hoop.

[tenn_smoothie]

Look, while it would be nice if Rondo had a nasty jumper, it would probably take away from some of the other things he does so well.  He's the best PURE point guard this team has had since probably DJ.

DJ was not at all a pure point guard. he was more of a 2 guard by size and style of play. but he did control bringing the ball up and setting up the offense a lot in the 80's because the team needed him to fill that requirement ........ and he did it well because he knew how to take care of the ball. Larry Bird was the point guard on that team because he set other players up with his movement and passing ability

[LB3533]

Our best jump shooter is...gasp....Kevin Garnett (.479), Rondo (.424), Allen (.412), Pierce (.408).

But yea, like some else mentioned before hand....we have to factor in that KG and Rondo will be wide open the majority of the time when they take their jumpers....while Pierce will be covered more with a hand in his face...and Ray Allen too, but not as much as Pierce.

[Sweet17]

^^OMG total misuse of statistics. Shooting percentage != jump shooting. Rondo eFG% jump shot is .091. That means of the jump shots he actually takes he hits less then 10% of them. That's god awful. I do expect that number to rise.

Pete

[crownsy]

^^OMG total misuse of statistics. Shooting percentage != jump shooting. Rondo eFG% jump shot is .091. That means of the jump shots he actually takes he hits less then 10% of them. That's god awful. I do expect that number to rise.

Pete

is that from thsi yeaR? i must have missed some jumpshots if so, by my count, hes only taken 6 or 7, and he's hit 2 of em. which sucks, but isn't below 10%

[Sweet17]

is that from thsi yeaR? i must have missed some jumpshots if so, by my count, hes only taken 6 or 7, and he's hit 2 of em. which sucks, but isn't below 10%

I imagine the scorer at 82games counted some of those ridiculous runners he took as a jumper. It's kind of a judgement call - the gap between layups and jumpers to some extent.

Point is you can't look at some guys shooting percentage and conclude he is a good jumpshooter. (Frankly you can't conclude anything from 4 games)...

[LB3533]

^^OMG total misuse of statistics. Shooting percentage != jump shooting. Rondo eFG% jump shot is .091. That means of the jump shots he actually takes he hits less then 10% of them. That's god awful. I do expect that number to rise.

Pete

I got those 2007-2008 statistics from here: http://82games.com/FGSORT7.HTM

Those percentages are not shooting percentages...they are jump shooting percentages...maybe 82games considers Rondo's floaters as jumpers, BUT Rondo takes those floaters inside so they would probably fit into the "inside" category.

Edit: Rondo's Jump Shooting eFG% last year was .422, which is less than his 2PT Jumperers of .424...which makes sense cause Rondo's 3PT shooting was bad last year at .263 (but Rondo didn't take that many 3's last year, only 5-19, so it didn't hurt him that much).

Edit #2: Rondo isn't shooting well on his jumpers this year as Pete indicated, however he is taking more "close" ranged shots this year than last year (through 5 games) 56% of Rondo's attempt are of "close" range nature while last year that same percentage of 56 was for his jumpers.

[BballTim]

^^OMG total misuse of statistics. Shooting percentage != jump shooting. Rondo eFG% jump shot is .091. That means of the jump shots he actually takes he hits less then 10% of them. That's god awful. I do expect that number to rise.

Pete

I got those 2007-2008 statistics from here: http://82games.com/FGSORT7.HTM

Those percentages are not shooting percentages...they are jump shooting percentages...maybe 82games considers Rondo's floaters as jumpers, BUT Rondo takes those floaters inside so they would probably fit into the "inside" category.

  I think that jump shot on 82games is more based on distance fomr the basket than whether it's a jump shot or a floater or a hook shot. The categories for all the shots a 3 pointer, inside shot and jump shot.

[crownsy]

^^OMG total misuse of statistics. Shooting percentage != jump shooting. Rondo eFG% jump shot is .091. That means of the jump shots he actually takes he hits less then 10% of them. That's god awful. I do expect that number to rise.

Pete

I got those 2007-2008 statistics from here: http://82games.com/FGSORT7.HTM

Those percentages are not shooting percentages...they are jump shooting percentages...maybe 82games considers Rondo's floaters as jumpers, BUT Rondo takes those floaters inside so they would probably fit into the "inside" category.

  I think that jump shot on 82games is more based on distance fomr the basket than whether it's a jump shot or a floater or a hook shot. The categories for all the shots a 3 pointer, inside shot and jump shot.

then thats intersting, but useless as a baramator on his jump shot, since those floaters are pretty much running layup attempts.

[LB3533]

I really think Rondo's running floating shots are negligible since he misses the out of control type ones and makes a fair share of the under control ones so they kinda cancel each other out.

We all can see that Rondo's jumper isn't falling this year....but we need more evidence and more games to get a better picture.

I really don't think Paul will be shooting 38% all year either....he's missed some easy layups and a number of his jump shots have been rimming out....tough breaks of the game.

[cordobes]

^^OMG total misuse of statistics. Shooting percentage != jump shooting. Rondo eFG% jump shot is .091. That means of the jump shots he actually takes he hits less then 10% of them. That's god awful. I do expect that number to rise.

Pete

I got those 2007-2008 statistics from here: http://82games.com/FGSORT7.HTM

Those percentages are not shooting percentages...they are jump shooting percentages...maybe 82games considers Rondo's floaters as jumpers, BUT Rondo takes those floaters inside so they would probably fit into the "inside" category.

  I think that jump shot on 82games is more based on distance fomr the basket than whether it's a jump shot or a floater or a hook shot. The categories for all the shots a 3 pointer, inside shot and jump shot.

then thats intersting, but useless as a baramator on his jump shot, since those floaters are pretty much running layup attempts.

I believe they have 4 categories based on type of shot:
- jump-shots
- close (lay-ups, hooks, etc.)
- dunks
- tips;
and two others based on distance:
- inside (I think this includes all the shots taken closer than 6 ft away from the basket)
- outside

Rondo's shot selection this season so far:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08BOS1A.HTM

[BballTim]

^^OMG total misuse of statistics. Shooting percentage != jump shooting. Rondo eFG% jump shot is .091. That means of the jump shots he actually takes he hits less then 10% of them. That's god awful. I do expect that number to rise.

Pete

I got those 2007-2008 statistics from here: http://82games.com/FGSORT7.HTM

Those percentages are not shooting percentages...they are jump shooting percentages...maybe 82games considers Rondo's floaters as jumpers, BUT Rondo takes those floaters inside so they would probably fit into the "inside" category.

  I think that jump shot on 82games is more based on distance fomr the basket than whether it's a jump shot or a floater or a hook shot. The categories for all the shots a 3 pointer, inside shot and jump shot.

then thats intersting, but useless as a baramator on his jump shot, since those floaters are pretty much running layup attempts.

I believe they have 4 categories based on type of shot:
- jump-shots
- close (lay-ups, hooks, etc.)
- dunks
- tips;
and two others based on distance:
- inside (I think this includes all the shots taken closer than 6 ft away from the basket)
- outside

Rondo's shot selection this season so far:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08BOS1A.HTM

  I was looking at the page where they had (almost) everyone's shooting stats for 2007-2008:

http://www.82games.com/FGSORT7.HTM

  In any case, they basically define a jump shot as any shot that's farther from the basket than an inside shot, not as actual jump shots (as opposed to floaters or what-not).

  Rondo's shooting and fouls shooting has been off but he's drawing fouls on almost 30% of his shots, which is a very high percent. He's typically high for pgs in that category.

[Sweet17]

then thats intersting, but useless as a baramator on his jump shot, since those floaters are pretty much running layup attempts.

It's hardly "useless." What you think EPA estimated mileage is "useless" just because it doesnt' match up perfectly to what you drive? It's at worst slightly imperfect and 10x better then looking a straight field goal percentages.

That being said I hope Rondo can step it up to last year's level. He needs to keep teams honest from long range.

[crownsy]

then thats intersting, but useless as a baramator on his jump shot, since those floaters are pretty much running layup attempts.

It's hardly "useless." What you think EPA estimated mileage is "useless" just because it doesnt' match up perfectly to what you drive? It's at worst slightly imperfect and 10x better then looking a straight field goal percentages.

That being said I hope Rondo can step it up to last year's level. He needs to keep teams honest from long range.

EPA dosen't include some non-related stat about how many times you passed a blue car on the highway as part of its average. that analogy makes no sense.

how are  lay-up attempts useful in determining jumpshooting again?

if i ask you what a players batting average is against fastballs, would you include breaking balls in the percentage?

We were discussing jumpshooting. if the stat includes layups as well, then it's utterly useless to me for talking about how good a jump shooter he is.

Should we include KG's dunks as jumpshots for determining his jumpshooting percentage while were at it?