Gary Payton's Take on Rondo

[crownsy]

This team would be the best offense in the league if Rondo had some kind of a jump-shot and this has NOTHING to do with his scoring.

His lack of a jump-shot impacts the game very deeply, Doc has been doing a great job hiding that factor. 

  Rondo could obviously shoot better, but he had a decent jump shot last year and we weren't near being the best team offensively.

A decent jump-shot compared to whom? Mine?

he shot 41% on his jumper, according to roy in the thread we hashed out this summer over this (he'll have to give you the referance)

The PG average is around 44-46%

so, he's below average but certainly not ben wallace.

[action781]

Gary Payton is on NBA channel and just said he did not like Rondo.  It sounded personal.  I know GP always thought he should have had the job in Boston, but I don't remember there being any animosity between them.  Anyone else have any info on this?

I've never met Rondo, but I've heard that he is very cocky.  Doc mentioned it in a WEEI interview last season and attributed that in part to his success.  I've seen him waive off and ignore (the captain) Paul Pierce's instructions in offensive sets.  I read on this blog that the reason Cassell was resigned is because he and Ray Allen are the only 2 people in the organization that Rondo would listen to.  So maybe they have met before and it is something personal.

[MrTripleDouble10]

Ediie House has a great jump shot... so did Dana Barros.  Who would you rather have as your full time PG?

Look, while it would be nice if Rondo had a nasty jumper, it would probably take away from some of the other things he does so well.  He's the best PURE point guard this team has had since probably DJ.

I was watching NBATV but I did not catch when Payton discussed Rondo.  I wish I had though.

[crownsy]

Gary Payton is on NBA channel and just said he did not like Rondo.  It sounded personal.  I know GP always thought he should have had the job in Boston, but I don't remember there being any animosity between them.  Anyone else have any info on this?

I've never met Rondo, but I've heard that he is very cocky.  Doc mentioned it in a WEEI interview last season and attributed that in part to his success.  I've seen him waive off and ignore (the captain) Paul Pierce's instructions in offensive sets.  I read on this blog that the reason Cassell was resigned is because he and Ray Allen are the only 2 people in the organization that Rondo would listen to.  So maybe they have met before and it is something personal.

He's supoposed to wave off paul in offenseive sets. This has been on a ton of post game shows, that one of the things that GPA love about him is that he won't give in and hand over the offense.

Your PG is the quaterback of the team. you think Tom brady changes the play because Randy moss doesn't like the call in the huddle?

Rondo's the same way. he takes the play from doc and executes it. If he has to get up in one of the 3;s face to do it, he does it.

[cordobes]

This team would be the best offense in the league if Rondo had some kind of a jump-shot and this has NOTHING to do with his scoring.

His lack of a jump-shot impacts the game very deeply, Doc has been doing a great job hiding that factor. 

  Rondo could obviously shoot better, but he had a decent jump shot last year and we weren't near being the best team offensively.

A decent jump-shot compared to whom? Mine?

he shot 41% on his jumper, according to roy in the thread we hashed out this summer over this (he'll have to give you the referance)

The PG average is around 44-46%

so, he's below average but certainly not ben wallace.

Rondo shot 42% on his jumpers last season. Tony Parker, to whom he's often compared, shot at a similar rate, 43%, in his sophomore year. However, this doesn't tell the whole story, it's easy to figure out why.

Rondo has the worst jumper among all the starting point-guards in the league. Devin Harris and Raymond Felton are close, but they are still better and have some range. This is not merely bellow average, it's bottom cellar.

Ronjo is a guard, what's exactly the point of comparing him to Ben Wallace, probably the worse shooter in the all league? I mean, he's decent because he shots better than Ben Wallace?

[crownsy]

This team would be the best offense in the league if Rondo had some kind of a jump-shot and this has NOTHING to do with his scoring.

His lack of a jump-shot impacts the game very deeply, Doc has been doing a great job hiding that factor. 

  Rondo could obviously shoot better, but he had a decent jump shot last year and we weren't near being the best team offensively.

A decent jump-shot compared to whom? Mine?

he shot 41% on his jumper, according to roy in the thread we hashed out this summer over this (he'll have to give you the referance)

The PG average is around 44-46%

so, he's below average but certainly not ben wallace.

Rondo shot 42% on his jumpers last season. Tony Parker, to whom he's often compared, shot at a similar rate, 43%, in his sophomore year. However, this doesn't tell the whole story, it's easy to figure out why.

Rondo has the worst jumper among all the starting point-guards in the league. Devin Harris and Raymond Felton are close, but they are still better and have some range. This is not merely bellow average, it's bottom cellar.

Ronjo is a guard, what's exactly the point of comparing him to Ben Wallace, probably the worse shooter in the all league? I mean, he's decent because he shots better than Ben Wallace?

42% was the worst of every single starting PG last year on a jumper? can you post your site?

I belive you, i'd just like to see the list.

also, what do you mean it doesn't tell the whole story and it's easy to figure out why? do you mean he doesn't shoot the precentage the NBA credits him with, or that its really low for a PG?

No ones saying He's a great jump shooter, but you implied his was horrable (apologies if your a realy good shooter  ) so how can you then say

1. he shot similar to tony parker, a guy who came in with no shot

2. say he shot 42%, which is a below average jumper to be sure, but not terrable.

and then dismiss all that and say he's the worst jumpshooter in the league?

[winsomme]

This team would be the best offense in the league if Rondo had some kind of a jump-shot and this has NOTHING to do with his scoring.

His lack of a jump-shot impacts the game very deeply, Doc has been doing a great job hiding that factor. 

  Rondo could obviously shoot better, but he had a decent jump shot last year and we weren't near being the best team offensively.

A decent jump-shot compared to whom? Mine?

he shot 41% on his jumper, according to roy in the thread we hashed out this summer over this (he'll have to give you the referance)

The PG average is around 44-46%

so, he's below average but certainly not ben wallace.

Rondo shot 42% on his jumpers last season. Tony Parker, to whom he's often compared, shot at a similar rate, 43%, in his sophomore year. However, this doesn't tell the whole story, it's easy to figure out why.

Rondo has the worst jumper among all the starting point-guards in the league. Devin Harris and Raymond Felton are close, but they are still better and have some range. This is not merely bellow average, it's bottom cellar.

Ronjo is a guard, what's exactly the point of comparing him to Ben Wallace, probably the worse shooter in the all league? I mean, he's decent because he shots better than Ben Wallace?

Harris and Felton may shoot better, yet Rondo is a better all around PG IMO....Rondo doesn't have a jumper that makes you want him to take the shot, but the real question is how much that is overcome by the areas that he is excels in.

i mean, what is the measuring stick for the whole package? PG is such an unusual position. personally i would rather have a PG like Rondo than one like Harris (who is a solod player). especially with the kind of talent he has around him.

and if we ever want to run some sets that uses the PG as a shooter, they can always run them with Eddie....

[BballTim]

This team would be the best offense in the league if Rondo had some kind of a jump-shot and this has NOTHING to do with his scoring.

His lack of a jump-shot impacts the game very deeply, Doc has been doing a great job hiding that factor. 

  Rondo could obviously shoot better, but he had a decent jump shot last year and we weren't near being the best team offensively.

A decent jump-shot compared to whom? Mine?

he shot 41% on his jumper, according to roy in the thread we hashed out this summer over this (he'll have to give you the referance)

The PG average is around 44-46%

so, he's below average but certainly not ben wallace.

Rondo shot 42% on his jumpers last season. Tony Parker, to whom he's often compared, shot at a similar rate, 43%, in his sophomore year. However, this doesn't tell the whole story, it's easy to figure out why.

Rondo has the worst jumper among all the starting point-guards in the league. Devin Harris and Raymond Felton are close, but they are still better and have some range. This is not merely bellow average, it's bottom cellar.

Ronjo is a guard, what's exactly the point of comparing him to Ben Wallace, probably the worse shooter in the all league? I mean, he's decent because he shots better than Ben Wallace?

  Even if Rondo's jump shot was close to average for a pg I don't see other teams sticking with him and not cheating towards Paul and Ray and KG.

[cordobes]

Because Tony Parker took probably the double of the jump-shots and like 10 times more triples that Rondo did, including many contested ones. Rondo hits 42% of his jump-shots, but 95% are wide open shots, most of the teams don't even try to close out. It's just a matter of watching how teams defend Rondo and how they defended Parker back in the day...

Peja Stojakovic hits around 80% of his uncontested shots. That doesn't make him a 80% shooter from behind the line.

He is horrible for the standards of NBA guards, of course he his. Who among the starting pgs do you think has a worse jump-shot than Rondo? Or even historically? I can think of Nate McMillan, for example.

(these stats are available on 82games.com, for example. One or other may be a little different because I'm quoting from memory.)

[cordobes]

Harris and Felton may shoot better, yet Rondo is a better all around PG IMO....

I agree, by far regarding Felton; Harris is wash. Still, the initial point remains.

  Even if Rondo's jump shot was close to average for a pg I don't see other teams sticking with him and not cheating towards Paul and Ray and KG.

Of course they'd still double off of Rondo, the question is about to what extent they could cheat. Even Rondo himself, don't you think he could drive and pass much better if his individual defender wasn't gravitating 7ft away of him?

[EJPLAYA]

Because Tony Parker took probably the double of the jump-shots and like 10 times more triples that Rondo did, including many contested ones. Rondo hits 42% of his jump-shots, but 95% are wide open shots, most of the teams don't even try to close out. It's just a matter of watching how teams defend Rondo and how they defended Parker back in the day...

Peja Stojakovic hits around 80% of his uncontested shots. That doesn't make him a 80% shooter from behind the line.

He is horrible for the standards of NBA guards, of course he his. Who among the starting pgs do you think has a worse jump-shot than Rondo? Or even historically? I can think of Nate McMillan, for example.

(these stats are available on 82games.com, for example. One or other may be a little different because I'm quoting from memory.)

Very well said. This is a great example of stats being misleading. I shoot better than 42% from the floor and never ever practice. If you gave me those 15-18 footers wide open in a game I am about 75%. (Yes it is pickup ball, but wide open is wide open...) No one is saying Rondo doesn't have great overall skills. They are wishing the guy had a better jumper that would force teams to at least think about going out on him. This would spread the floor, punish teams doubling, and free him up to drive more. No one on here is unappreciative of the great skills he has.

[2short]

Rondo's game reminds me a lot of Payton's actually.  I seem to remember someone posting who does he remind us of, the glove was my answer.  Gary didn't come into the league with that good of a jumper and he was "confident" to say the least.  I think Rondo is a great athlete who is a point guard.  His freakish athleticism has probably hurt his outside game since he didn't need it in college and before that.  The shot is improving.  I am disapointed in the ft's, this is going to keep him from the end of games until he spends some serious time w/ ray allen.  You can't have your pg who will be handling the ball not hitting 80%.
I feel rondo can change an nba game with his defense like few others at any posistion.  Last seasons banner had a lot to do with his play.  Now if doc would have played him right away instead telfair he would be ahead of where he is now.  I do however respect Payton's opinion, great hall of fame guard.  I'd love to hear Stocktons opinion.  We know cooz has loved him since preseason year 1.

[winsomme]

Because Tony Parker took probably the double of the jump-shots and like 10 times more triples that Rondo did, including many contested ones. Rondo hits 42% of his jump-shots, but 95% are wide open shots, most of the teams don't even try to close out. It's just a matter of watching how teams defend Rondo and how they defended Parker back in the day...

Peja Stojakovic hits around 80% of his uncontested shots. That doesn't make him a 80% shooter from behind the line.

He is horrible for the standards of NBA guards, of course he his. Who among the starting pgs do you think has a worse jump-shot than Rondo? Or even historically? I can think of Nate McMillan, for example.

(these stats are available on 82games.com, for example. One or other may be a little different because I'm quoting from memory.)

Very well said. This is a great example of stats being misleading. I shoot better than 42% from the floor and never ever practice. If you gave me those 15-18 footers wide open in a game I am about 75%. (Yes it is pickup ball, but wide open is wide open...) No one is saying Rondo doesn't have great overall skills. They are wishing the guy had a better jumper that would force teams to at least think about going out on him. This would spread the floor, punish teams doubling, and free him up to drive more. No one on here is unappreciative of the great skills he has.

as much as there are stats and concrete info in this topic, it is getting pretty abstract...

the only question for me is the whole package and on that count Rondo a big plus for us.

personally, i value PG skills in a PG over SG skills....would we be better if Rondo was a better shooter?....sure.

but IMO he is good at the things that he needs to be good at ....things, by the way, that other quality PGs aren't as good at....

[TheReaLPuba]

All I ask is for Rondo to be aggressive.

He has to take the open jumpers if the defense is giving it to him and that doesn't mean he dribbles the ball up and shoots a 20 footer because his defender backs off him....it means after the offensive set is run and he ends up getting the ball wide open he has to shoot the [dang] ball...period!

We know Rondo is at his best when he's aggressive...at both ends of the floor...Rondo can go 0 for his first 7 and then come right back and hit 5 in a row and steal 3 balls and assist on 5 other baskets...Rondo can be a huge factor and he should be this year because everyone has to step up their games with the loss of Posey.

[tenn_smoothie]

let's see ....... for all his desperate attempts to latch on to a contender late in his career, Payton never did win a ring ......... maybe some jealousy seeping out there Gary, huh ??

He won with Miami two years ago.

OK ......... i missed that one. how big a role did Payton have on that team ?

still a cheap shot remark about a very talented player (Rondo) who is succeeding by playing to his strengths and not trying to do things he can't. i call that smart basketball. Rondo is the Celt's best set-up guard since Tiny. i love watching the guy play.