Gary Payton's Take on Rondo

[acieEarl]

Yea I'll take Rondo's 10/7/7 any day. Celts don't need him to be a main scorer. Last year he looked a little timid but you can see the confidence this year.

Rondo is sort of a freak of a PG as there's not a lot of PGs of his type. Super athletic and long arms and huge hands, he's a freak. He might be the best defensive PG in the league.

People were comparing him to D Harris of Jersey. Here's his numbers from last night against a weak defense team:
2-11 11/1/7.
Yea I'd take Rondo any day of the week.


SPeaking on Payton, who cares what he says. Payton tends to talk alot. I'm sure there are alot of players who didn't like GP.

[cordobes]

This team would be the best offense in the league if Rondo had some kind of a jump-shot and this has NOTHING to do with his scoring.

His lack of a jump-shot impacts the game very deeply, Doc has been doing a great job hiding that factor. 

[Finkelskyhook]

Who cares what Payton thinks?  He was with us for one year.  Played literally no defense the entire season and was worthless in the playoffs.

[crownsy]

This team would be the best offense in the league if Rondo had some kind of a jump-shot and this has NOTHING to do with his scoring.

His lack of a jump-shot impacts the game very deeply, Doc has been doing a great job hiding that factor. 

If you say so. Look, we all want him to be more confident, and take the jumper a bit more. but, i also want the offense to run through the 3 HOF'ers first.

lets look at last nights game as a random example, a game where the criticism is rondo didn't take his open jumpers when presented.

Last night, we took a total of 53 shots by a player in the starting five not named rondo. He took 10, and went 5/10 (note 50% is pretty darn good for a guy who can't shoot )

so, we had 53 shots available to add onto rondo's. I saw at least 6-8 times where he COULD have taken a jumper, but chose to move the ball instead to set someone else up. so, using my worst case scenario (and i'm sure he had even more looks)

now, perk took his average, which i think is a good number, at 8 (he just made 7 of em, atta boy perk! ) but lets say you want to cut two of his.

who, out of three HOF scorers, do you want to lose those 6 shots a game, and how does it make us a better offense?

And again, i agree, i'd like to see him take a jumper more, just to keep defenses honest, but since he shoots around 39-40 % on it, he'd need to take a bunhc of them per game. he's actually alot more efficent finshing at the rim as his 50% from last night shows, taking out his jumpers, 2/3, he went 3/7 against one of the top (supposedly, i personaly have my doubts) interior defensive clubs. That's a 42% against yao and the rockets, plus he caused 2 fouls and got yao in foul trouble.

Again, i'd like to see him keep developing his jumper, im just not convinced his lack of taking it is as big  a detrement to our offense as its reported to be.

[EJPLAYA]

Agreed. If someone is going to take a wide open jumper then I'd rather it was almost anyone out there than Rondo. After last night maybe even Perk!

I am a little disappointed that he seems to be shooting worse than this time last year. I don't think he spent a lot of time in the gym this offseason shooting jumpers. I'd much rather he took it to the rim anyway. If they collapse then he can kick it out to Ray or PP or KG. If not then he can lay it up or shoot that little teardrop. Much better option IMO.

[crownsy]

Agreed. If someone is going to take a wide open jumper then I'd rather it was almost anyone out there than Rondo. After last night maybe even Perk!

I am a little disappointed that he seems to be shooting worse than this time last year. I don't think he spent a lot of time in the gym this offseason shooting jumpers. I'd much rather he took it to the rim anyway. If they collapse then he can kick it out to Ray or PP or KG. If not then he can lay it up or shoot that little teardrop. Much better option IMO.

lost in this is he did in fact hit two nice jumpers last night, the pull up over skip when he backed up on the break, and the corner 2.

but yea, exactly, if teams are going to load up to stop his drive, and he's a very good finsher at the rim if they don't, then he gets to kick out to 3 fantastic shooters for the upfake drive or open jumper.

[EJPLAYA]

Agreed. If someone is going to take a wide open jumper then I'd rather it was almost anyone out there than Rondo. After last night maybe even Perk!

I am a little disappointed that he seems to be shooting worse than this time last year. I don't think he spent a lot of time in the gym this offseason shooting jumpers. I'd much rather he took it to the rim anyway. If they collapse then he can kick it out to Ray or PP or KG. If not then he can lay it up or shoot that little teardrop. Much better option IMO.

lost in this is he did in fact hit two nice jumpers last night, the pull up over skip when he backed up on the break, and the corner 2.

but yea, exactly, if teams are going to load up to stop his drive, and he's a very good finsher at the rim if they don't, then he gets to kick out to 3 fantastic shooters for the upfake drive or open jumper.

Yes. That pull up over Alston was nice. I think that he does a much better job with his shot when he isn't wide open, set, and thinking about it than when he is. It's a more smooth natural shot. When he thinks about it he gets a little stiff and guided with it.

[cordobes]

This team would be the best offense in the league if Rondo had some kind of a jump-shot and this has NOTHING to do with his scoring.

His lack of a jump-shot impacts the game very deeply, Doc has been doing a great job hiding that factor. 

If you say so. Look, we all want him to be more confident, and take the jumper a bit more. but, i also want the offense to run through the 3 HOF'ers first.

Me too. But, as I said, this has nothing to do with his scoring or with how many touches he gets. I'll try to explain with an equation:

Run the offense through the 3 HOF'ers firs with better spacing > Run the offense through the 3 HOF'ers firs with worse spacing

[crownsy]

This team would be the best offense in the league if Rondo had some kind of a jump-shot and this has NOTHING to do with his scoring.

His lack of a jump-shot impacts the game very deeply, Doc has been doing a great job hiding that factor. 

If you say so. Look, we all want him to be more confident, and take the jumper a bit more. but, i also want the offense to run through the 3 HOF'ers first.

Me too. But, as I said, this has nothing to do with his scoring or with how many touches he gets. I'll try to explain with an equation:

Run the offense through the 3 HOF'ers firs with better spacing > Run the offense through the 3 HOF'ers firs with worse spacing

but the spacing relies on him taking more jump shots, which he is less effecient at than driving, to demand the respect, and thus cuts thier shots since he has to take more.

I honestly think he's fine right now. I'd like to see him take the wide open stuff more, but as long as he attacks the basket with a will, somethign he excels at, im fine with his role right now.

What i hate is what he did in away games during the playoffs, which is catch the ball and stand thier with 12 open feet of space in front of him waiting for one of the three of them to come over and get the ball. This year he attacks and tries to finsh in close or kicks once the defense collapses to shut his lane. that i'm very ok with.

[oliveira311]

Has everyone lost their minds?

Rondo is an excellent point guard. People are just looking for things to nitpick. He creates a lot of opportunities that most PG's in the league would never even be able create.

His jumper is suspect, but like a lot of players that come into the league, it takes time to develop a solid jumper.

If he was on a weaker team, he would have more shots thus he would score a lot more either via drive or pull ups in the lane.

[celticmaestro]

Who cares what Gary Payton thinks.

Rondo has shown glimpses of an all-star calibre player, and other times he's shown glimpses of a good player. He's still inconsistent, but he's getting there a lot quicker than anyone thought he would this time two years ago, or even last year.

[EJPLAYA]

Has everyone lost their minds?

Rondo is an excellent point guard. People are just looking for things to nitpick. He creates a lot of opportunities that most PG's in the league would never even be able create.

His jumper is suspect, but like a lot of players that come into the league, it takes time to develop a solid jumper.

If he was on a weaker team, he would have more shots thus he would score a lot more either via drive or pull ups in the lane.

Stating that there are parts of Rondo's game that need improvement doesn't detract from his other skills. I think the point being made by all is that if he could hit that 15-18 footer he would be a top 3 PG in the league.

As far as developing a solid jumper, he's had probably 15 years to develop that solid jumper and hasn't. Not real likely that he's going to magically become a great shooter now. Perk's improved shooting though shows what a little hard work and fundamental consistency can do. Not pretty, but he sure made it work last night.

[BballTim]

This team would be the best offense in the league if Rondo had some kind of a jump-shot and this has NOTHING to do with his scoring.

His lack of a jump-shot impacts the game very deeply, Doc has been doing a great job hiding that factor. 

  Rondo could obviously shoot better, but he had a decent jump shot last year and we weren't near being the best team offensively.

[cordobes]

This team would be the best offense in the league if Rondo had some kind of a jump-shot and this has NOTHING to do with his scoring.

His lack of a jump-shot impacts the game very deeply, Doc has been doing a great job hiding that factor.   

If you say so. Look, we all want him to be more confident, and take the jumper a bit more. but, i also want the offense to run through the 3 HOF'ers first.

Me too. But, as I said, this has nothing to do with his scoring or with how many touches he gets. I'll try to explain with an equation:

Run the offense through the 3 HOF'ers firs with better spacing > Run the offense through the 3 HOF'ers firs with worse spacing

but the spacing relies on him taking more jump shots, which he is less effecient at than driving, to demand the respect, and thus cuts thier shots since he has to take more.

I honestly think he's fine right now. I'd like to see him take the wide open stuff more, but as long as he attacks the basket with a will, somethign he excels at, im fine with his role right now.

What i hate is what he did in away games during the playoffs, which is catch the ball and stand thier with 12 open feet of space in front of him waiting for one of the three of them to come over and get the ball. This year he attacks and tries to finsh in close or kicks once the defense collapses to shut his lane. that i'm very ok with.

Well, that's why I said it would be a great improvement if he could hit wide-open jump-shots efficiently enough to avoid having his defender turning the back on him everytime he's on the perimeter off-the-ball and roaming around, or giving him 7ft, and cheating on the passing lanes, when he has the basketball on his hands.

I'm okay as well with him, but the fact remains that this team could be an offensive juggernaut if he had a decent jumper (and I'm talking about a Jason Kidd's level jump-shot, not being a sharp-shooter). In my view this is quite evident, it's just a matter of looking at the frequently unorthodox offensive sets we run.

[cordobes]

This team would be the best offense in the league if Rondo had some kind of a jump-shot and this has NOTHING to do with his scoring.

His lack of a jump-shot impacts the game very deeply, Doc has been doing a great job hiding that factor. 

  Rondo could obviously shoot better, but he had a decent jump shot last year and we weren't near being the best team offensively.

A decent jump-shot compared to whom? Mine?