James Posey Threads (merged)

[Redz]

What Posey gave the Celtics was confidence, ego, attitude, devotion, etc...Obviously that has to backed by production, but those were his biggest assets to this team, and those are the hardest to replace.  There simply aren't a whole lot of players in the league with his presence off the bench.

You'd think the experience of winning a championship would breed some of those attributes in the rest of the Celtics returning bench players, but to this point the only guy who I've seen step up in these ways is Leon Powe.  So maybe he's the guy.

I'll leave the X's & O's part of the discussion for you all.  Posey's heart is the heart of the matter to me.

That said; I still understand why the Celts didn't sign him.  I just miss him.

[BballTim]

not really, though i tend to agree. if you want to go just on offensive production for a stunning 3 games.....

TA: PPG: 10 Assists- 1.3 boards 3.2

posey 2007-08 PPG: 7.4 Assists- 1.2 boards- 3.0

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/james_posey/career_stats.html

so no, i don't accept that james is some sort of irreplaceable force off the bench, even less so when over the last 3 games, TA has out scored, rebounded, and assisted him.

The point of the stats isn't to say Tony is as good a player as posey BTW, which isn't true. its to point out what to me is the utter ridculousness of saying TA can't hack it and only pointing to a game where he played poorly while the ENTIRE TEAM did the same thing, while downplaying his efforts against two of the best wings in the EC.

so far, tony has 2 good games under his belt, and one bad one. weeeeeee. check back with me in 10 games. if his contribution is a bunch of good games, great. if its not, that changes things.

tony allen will be fine IMO. he will be a downgrade, but 3 games is a little much to start the "james posey is jesus!" threads. i thought we might wait until we had at least a ten game sample size, but apperntly not.

i'm not arguing that he is irreplaceable, I'm arguing that what he did on the team has yet to be replaced....

  I'm just not sold on the fact that what he did needs to be replaced. Would the team have been worse if Posey was more of a slasher than a spot up shooter last year? I don't know that that is true. I don't think that the other players on the team (like KG/RA/PP) are so one-dimensional that the team can't succeed without an exact duplicate of Posey on offense.

i think this is the crux of our differing opinion....I think TA has to work so hard to get his points...I think generally speaking a spot up shooter with a good percentage is getting easier buckets than those physical drives of TA.

i agree with you that Posey doesn't carry an offense, but i think when you can put out a second string lineup with a House and a Posey type you have the possibility of getting easier buckets.

  Again, though, spot up shooters are only useful if they are left alone. This rarely happens with the 2nd unit. When the offense is struggling to get something going Posey isn't very useful. Tony can at least create opportunities and get tot the line.

[winsomme]

not really, though i tend to agree. if you want to go just on offensive production for a stunning 3 games.....

TA: PPG: 10 Assists- 1.3 boards 3.2

posey 2007-08 PPG: 7.4 Assists- 1.2 boards- 3.0

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/james_posey/career_stats.html

so no, i don't accept that james is some sort of irreplaceable force off the bench, even less so when over the last 3 games, TA has out scored, rebounded, and assisted him.

The point of the stats isn't to say Tony is as good a player as posey BTW, which isn't true. its to point out what to me is the utter ridculousness of saying TA can't hack it and only pointing to a game where he played poorly while the ENTIRE TEAM did the same thing, while downplaying his efforts against two of the best wings in the EC.

so far, tony has 2 good games under his belt, and one bad one. weeeeeee. check back with me in 10 games. if his contribution is a bunch of good games, great. if its not, that changes things.

tony allen will be fine IMO. he will be a downgrade, but 3 games is a little much to start the "james posey is jesus!" threads. i thought we might wait until we had at least a ten game sample size, but apperntly not.

i'm not arguing that he is irreplaceable, I'm arguing that what he did on the team has yet to be replaced....

  I'm just not sold on the fact that what he did needs to be replaced. Would the team have been worse if Posey was more of a slasher than a spot up shooter last year? I don't know that that is true. I don't think that the other players on the team (like KG/RA/PP) are so one-dimensional that the team can't succeed without an exact duplicate of Posey on offense.

i think this is the crux of our differing opinion....I think TA has to work so hard to get his points...I think generally speaking a spot up shooter with a good percentage is getting easier buckets than those physical drives of TA.

i agree with you that Posey doesn't carry an offense, but i think when you can put out a second string lineup with a House and a Posey type you have the possibility of getting easier buckets.

  Again, though, spot up shooters are only useful if they are left alone. This rarely happens with the 2nd unit. When the offense is struggling to get something going Posey isn't very useful. Tony can at least create opportunities and get tot the line.

but the more shooters you have the greater chance you have that one of them is open...

[crownsy]

not really, though i tend to agree. if you want to go just on offensive production for a stunning 3 games.....

TA: PPG: 10 Assists- 1.3 boards 3.2

posey 2007-08 PPG: 7.4 Assists- 1.2 boards- 3.0

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/james_posey/career_stats.html

so no, i don't accept that james is some sort of irreplaceable force off the bench, even less so when over the last 3 games, TA has out scored, rebounded, and assisted him.

The point of the stats isn't to say Tony is as good a player as posey BTW, which isn't true. its to point out what to me is the utter ridculousness of saying TA can't hack it and only pointing to a game where he played poorly while the ENTIRE TEAM did the same thing, while downplaying his efforts against two of the best wings in the EC.

so far, tony has 2 good games under his belt, and one bad one. weeeeeee. check back with me in 10 games. if his contribution is a bunch of good games, great. if its not, that changes things.

tony allen will be fine IMO. he will be a downgrade, but 3 games is a little much to start the "james posey is jesus!" threads. i thought we might wait until we had at least a ten game sample size, but apperntly not.

i'm not arguing that he is irreplaceable, I'm arguing that what he did on the team has yet to be replaced....

  I'm just not sold on the fact that what he did needs to be replaced. Would the team have been worse if Posey was more of a slasher than a spot up shooter last year? I don't know that that is true. I don't think that the other players on the team (like KG/RA/PP) are so one-dimensional that the team can't succeed without an exact duplicate of Posey on offense.

i think this is the crux of our differing opinion....I think TA has to work so hard to get his points...I think generally speaking a spot up shooter with a good percentage is getting easier buckets than those physical drives of TA.

i agree with you that Posey doesn't carry an offense, but i think when you can put out a second string lineup with a House and a Posey type you have the possibility of getting easier buckets.

  Again, though, spot up shooters are only useful if they are left alone. This rarely happens with the 2nd unit. When the offense is struggling to get something going Posey isn't very useful. Tony can at least create opportunities and get tot the line.

but the more shooters you have the greater chance you have that one of them is open...

but slashers can always get thier offense going through FT attempts adn cause foul trouble among the opposing team.....

[winsomme]

not really, though i tend to agree. if you want to go just on offensive production for a stunning 3 games.....

TA: PPG: 10 Assists- 1.3 boards 3.2

posey 2007-08 PPG: 7.4 Assists- 1.2 boards- 3.0

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/james_posey/career_stats.html

so no, i don't accept that james is some sort of irreplaceable force off the bench, even less so when over the last 3 games, TA has out scored, rebounded, and assisted him.

The point of the stats isn't to say Tony is as good a player as posey BTW, which isn't true. its to point out what to me is the utter ridculousness of saying TA can't hack it and only pointing to a game where he played poorly while the ENTIRE TEAM did the same thing, while downplaying his efforts against two of the best wings in the EC.

so far, tony has 2 good games under his belt, and one bad one. weeeeeee. check back with me in 10 games. if his contribution is a bunch of good games, great. if its not, that changes things.

tony allen will be fine IMO. he will be a downgrade, but 3 games is a little much to start the "james posey is jesus!" threads. i thought we might wait until we had at least a ten game sample size, but apperntly not.

i'm not arguing that he is irreplaceable, I'm arguing that what he did on the team has yet to be replaced....

  I'm just not sold on the fact that what he did needs to be replaced. Would the team have been worse if Posey was more of a slasher than a spot up shooter last year? I don't know that that is true. I don't think that the other players on the team (like KG/RA/PP) are so one-dimensional that the team can't succeed without an exact duplicate of Posey on offense.

i think this is the crux of our differing opinion....I think TA has to work so hard to get his points...I think generally speaking a spot up shooter with a good percentage is getting easier buckets than those physical drives of TA.

i agree with you that Posey doesn't carry an offense, but i think when you can put out a second string lineup with a House and a Posey type you have the possibility of getting easier buckets.

  Again, though, spot up shooters are only useful if they are left alone. This rarely happens with the 2nd unit. When the offense is struggling to get something going Posey isn't very useful. Tony can at least create opportunities and get tot the line.

but the more shooters you have the greater chance you have that one of them is open...

but slashers can always get thier offense going through FT attempts adn cause foul trouble among the opposing team.....

well, in theory, but as we saw in the Indy game when a team rotates well and collapses, it can get ugly...

for me, i'd prefer another shooter...especially when you can put a good crew out there. it makes it hard for a team to actually rotate to all the shooters.

[crownsy]

but what did we see in the first two games where TA, pierce and rondo lived at the line? worked out pretty good thier didn't it?

each style is going to have off nights and on nights. I personaly though TA and pierce deserved two to three more trips to the line apiece in that indy game, which wouldn't have changed the final outcome, but would have been nice to see called.

but shooting is off on some nights too, like ours was the same night. Eddie bricked 5 wide open looks he makes in his sleep from the corner, ray was off, paul was off, pruitt was off. only KG was on among our jumpshooters.

and while i feel another shooting forward would be nice to play the dreaded "small ball" we played last year, we can still do it. go

1. House
2.pruitt
3. Ray allen
4. pierce
5. KG

and you have the same undersized lineup with a SF at the 4 that we used last year at times when we needed threes.

[winsomme]

but what did we see in the first two games where TA, pierce and rondo lived at the line? worked out pretty good thier didn't it?

each style is going to have off nights and on nights. I personaly though TA and pierce deserved two to three more trips to the line apiece in that indy game, which wouldn't have changed the final outcome, but would have been nice to see called.

but shooting is off on some nights too, like ours was the same night. Eddie bricked 5 wide open looks he makes in his sleep from the corner, ray was off, paul was off, pruitt was off. only KG was on among our jumpshooters.

and while i feel another shooting forward would be nice to play the dreaded "small ball" we played last year, we can still do it. go

1. House
2.pruitt
3. Ray allen
4. pierce
5. KG

and you have the same undersized lineup with a SF at the 4 that we used last year at times when we needed threes.

i definitely am more coming from a point of liking the recipe last year as opposed to knowing that a dribble-driver like TA won't work as well....

i just liked the way that mixture worked...

[winsomme]

1. House
2.pruitt
3. Ray allen
4. pierce
5. KG

and you have the same undersized lineup with a SF at the 4 that we used last year at times when we needed threes.

there are definitely options to try, but i think that one you offer up is super small.

if you didn't like Eddie, Ray, PP, Posey, KG for being too small...

[crownsy]

1. House
2.pruitt
3. Ray allen
4. pierce
5. KG

and you have the same undersized lineup with a SF at the 4 that we used last year at times when we needed threes.

there are definitely options to try, but i think that one you offer up is super small.

if you didn't like Eddie, Ray, PP, Posey, KG for being too small...

i don't like small ball in general, but im pointing out we can still play it.

[winsomme]

1. House
2.pruitt
3. Ray allen
4. pierce
5. KG

and you have the same undersized lineup with a SF at the 4 that we used last year at times when we needed threes.

there are definitely options to try, but i think that one you offer up is super small.

if you didn't like Eddie, Ray, PP, Posey, KG for being too small...

i don't like small ball in general, but im pointing out we can still play it.

i gotcha and i like Pruitt too, but that is REALLY small small ball...

[youcanthandlethetruth113]

So I am guessing this will be the first in a long, long, long, long line of in season "I really wish we had kept James Posey" threads that will probably overtake the "bring back Antoine" threads this season as most irritating to see come up on the Recent Posts section.

I'll admit, Pose has looked real good so far for the Hornets. But I'll still stick with my assessment that it was one year too many at the price he was looking for. It just might cost us a banner this year though that is no guarantee in either direction, but it might have won us two banners a bit further down the road.

The expiring deals of the GPA in consecutive years is going to give this team a ton of flexibility to upgrade it's roster during that time and Posey's deal would probably have hindered that. Yeah, I read the Simmons article at ESPN.com saying that his dad thought it was better for a banner this year than to plan for 2011 and 2012 but that was no guarantee as I said.

Oh well. Have at people. James Posey has had two very good games in a row for the Hornets. Let the lamenting begin.

Simply put...I miss Big Game James

[BballTim]

  Again, though, spot up shooters are only useful if they are left alone. This rarely happens with the 2nd unit. When the offense is struggling to get something going Posey isn't very useful. Tony can at least create opportunities and get tot the line.

but the more shooters you have the greater chance you have that one of them is open...

  Once again, they only get open if someone else draws their defender away. In other words, if you don't have a post player who they have to double or someone cutting to the basket, you don't have any open shooters. You're putting the cart before the horse. You've probably heard phrases like "live by the outside shot, die by the outside shot". How often do you hear "that team's doomed to fail because they attack the hoop too aggressively"?

[winsomme]

  Again, though, spot up shooters are only useful if they are left alone. This rarely happens with the 2nd unit. When the offense is struggling to get something going Posey isn't very useful. Tony can at least create opportunities and get tot the line.

but the more shooters you have the greater chance you have that one of them is open...

  Once again, they only get open if someone else draws their defender away. In other words, if you don't have a post player who they have to double or someone cutting to the basket, you don't have any open shooters. You're putting the cart before the horse. You've probably heard phrases like "live by the outside shot, die by the outside shot". How often do you hear "that team's doomed to fail because they attack the hoop too aggressively"?

i don't agree. The motion offense that we run has the ability to get open looks for shooters - more so the more shooters you have.

we don't have to speculate about this. we did it last year.

also, dribble drive is much more effective when a defense has to worry about getting burned by snipers lining the perimeter...

[BballTim]

  Again, though, spot up shooters are only useful if they are left alone. This rarely happens with the 2nd unit. When the offense is struggling to get something going Posey isn't very useful. Tony can at least create opportunities and get tot the line.

but the more shooters you have the greater chance you have that one of them is open...

  Once again, they only get open if someone else draws their defender away. In other words, if you don't have a post player who they have to double or someone cutting to the basket, you don't have any open shooters. You're putting the cart before the horse. You've probably heard phrases like "live by the outside shot, die by the outside shot". How often do you hear "that team's doomed to fail because they attack the hoop too aggressively"?

i don't agree. The motion offense that we run has the ability to get open looks for shooters - more so the more shooters you have.

we don't have to speculate about this. we did it last year.

also, dribble drive is much more effective when a defense has to worry about getting burned by snipers lining the perimeter...

  Sure, the dribble drive is more effective when you have shooters on the perimeter. But we have more shooters than drivers. Any time Allen's in we have 2 of Paul and Ray and Eddie, who are all good outside shooters.

[winsomme]

  Again, though, spot up shooters are only useful if they are left alone. This rarely happens with the 2nd unit. When the offense is struggling to get something going Posey isn't very useful. Tony can at least create opportunities and get tot the line.

but the more shooters you have the greater chance you have that one of them is open...

  Once again, they only get open if someone else draws their defender away. In other words, if you don't have a post player who they have to double or someone cutting to the basket, you don't have any open shooters. You're putting the cart before the horse. You've probably heard phrases like "live by the outside shot, die by the outside shot". How often do you hear "that team's doomed to fail because they attack the hoop too aggressively"?

i don't agree. The motion offense that we run has the ability to get open looks for shooters - more so the more shooters you have.

we don't have to speculate about this. we did it last year.

also, dribble drive is much more effective when a defense has to worry about getting burned by snipers lining the perimeter...

  Sure, the dribble drive is more effective when you have shooters on the perimeter. But we have more shooters than drivers. Any time Allen's in we have 2 of Paul and Ray and Eddie, who are all good outside shooters.

but this is also not exclusively a TA/Posey debate. we had BOTH last year.....but the difference with Pose is that he is also bringing with him another 'big' away from the basket....something TA, Eddie and Ray aren't doing...

that added space clears more room for Paul or Ray or KG to do their work depending on who is in there.