Is Kevin Garnett a shell of the dominant force from 01-05?

[moiso]

The point of this is not to bash KG.  People are getting overly defensive as if it's sacreligious to suggest that a player in his 30's has lost a little something.  EVERY player over 32 has lost a little something.  We love KG, but are still able to see the big picture with an open mind.  Just because he won a title doesn't mean he is able to do what he could do when he was 25.

[crownsy]

right, but thats not what the thread is about. the title is "shell of his former self" the first post throws around words like "no way in hell is KG top 15 anymore"

it was an argumentitive post, and it got people riled up. if nothing else, it promoted some good discussion.

[moiso]

you're right crownsy.  "a shell of his former self" is too harsh and "no way in hell he's a top 15 player" is too strong. 

[Big Ticket]

Yeah... I'm just going to pull myself out of this thread before I do something I shouldn't.  The OP has been unbelievably spiteful on the ESPN boards to both myself and to KG (many times simply to get under my skin) and it is difficult to forget that when in this thread.  It's best I just don't respond anymore.

[BballTim]

Lol I don't understand why people are getting so worked up about this.  Nobody is bashing Kevin Garnett, we all love him and he is still a GREAT player.  The point of the article is being realistic in saying that KG isn't the player he used to be.  Agreeing with this post is not bashing KG.

Also in regards to my previous post on here, it doesn't matter if the Celtics were one of the best rebounding times last year...KG still doesn't rebound like he used to.  It's just an observation that goes beyond the numbers, it's something you could see the last third of the season last year.  Even Bill Simmons brought it up in his NBA preview article and I totally agree.  And if you don't then you hadn't been watching the Celtics the last part of the season.  Again this isn't bashing KG because I love the guy but some people are so close minded when it comes to this stuff.

  Of course. you're such a renowned basketball expert that the only reason that anyone would ever disagree with you is that they haven't been watching the games. I mean, even the all-knowing Bill Simmons agrees with you. The fact that he's playing with a center not named Mark Blount and with other good rebounders is obviously unrelated to the situation.

[crownsy]

Lol I don't understand why people are getting so worked up about this.  Nobody is bashing Kevin Garnett, we all love him and he is still a GREAT player.  The point of the article is being realistic in saying that KG isn't the player he used to be.  Agreeing with this post is not bashing KG.

Also in regards to my previous post on here, it doesn't matter if the Celtics were one of the best rebounding times last year...KG still doesn't rebound like he used to.  It's just an observation that goes beyond the numbers, it's something you could see the last third of the season last year.  Even Bill Simmons brought it up in his NBA preview article and I totally agree.  And if you don't then you hadn't been watching the Celtics the last part of the season.  Again this isn't bashing KG because I love the guy but some people are so close minded when it comes to this stuff.

  Of course. you're such a renowned basketball expert that the only reason that anyone would ever disagree with you is that they haven't been watching the games. I mean, even the all-knowing Bill Simmons agrees with you. The fact that he's playing with a center not named Mark Blount and with other good rebounders is obviously unrelated to the situation.

Tp for contining the never ending war on the "you dont watch the games!" shot that some posters think is a good burn.

honestly,it makes you like 5 years old. seriously. I have never once though "wow, he right, this guy DOESN'T watch the games!!!!" after that comment.

 We all watch the games, if you cant think of a better way to defend your point than "you dont watch/ can't watch basketball at the same level us smart people do!" just don't post.

[Redz]

Yeah... I'm just going to pull myself out of this thread before I do something I shouldn't.  The OP has been unbelievably spiteful on the ESPN boards to both myself and to KG (many times simply to get under my skin) and it is difficult to forget that when in this thread.  It's best I just don't respond anymore.

When KG starts averaging octuple doubles in the regular season and better in the playoffs he'll be worthy of some praise. 

Championships are wicked overrated.  I want some stats.

[Roy Hobbs]

It seems the people who only began following the Celtics last year tend to be the ones who insist KG's presence made the hands down difference in the vast improvement.

Eh.  I think KG's presence (along with Tom Thibodeau's) made the hands down difference in the vast improvement.  Now, if Pierce and Allen had been added to Minnesota and they had somehow won the championship, I think Pierce would have been seen as the hands down difference in the vast improvement.

KG was the key *added* piece; Paul was already here.  (And Ray was big, but not on the same level of Pierce and KG.)

[BballTim]

Lol I don't understand why people are getting so worked up about this.  Nobody is bashing Kevin Garnett, we all love him and he is still a GREAT player.  The point of the article is being realistic in saying that KG isn't the player he used to be.  Agreeing with this post is not bashing KG.

Also in regards to my previous post on here, it doesn't matter if the Celtics were one of the best rebounding times last year...KG still doesn't rebound like he used to.  It's just an observation that goes beyond the numbers, it's something you could see the last third of the season last year.  Even Bill Simmons brought it up in his NBA preview article and I totally agree.  And if you don't then you hadn't been watching the Celtics the last part of the season.  Again this isn't bashing KG because I love the guy but some people are so close minded when it comes to this stuff.

  Of course. you're such a renowned basketball expert that the only reason that anyone would ever disagree with you is that they haven't been watching the games. I mean, even the all-knowing Bill Simmons agrees with you. The fact that he's playing with a center not named Mark Blount and with other good rebounders is obviously unrelated to the situation.

Tp for contining the never ending war on the "you dont watch the games!" shot that some posters think is a good burn.

honestly,it makes you like 5 years old. seriously. I have never once though "wow, he right, this guy DOESN'T watch the games!!!!" after that comment.

 We all watch the games, if you cant think of a better way to defend your point than "you dont watch/ can't watch basketball at the same level us smart people do!" just don't post.

  It's a pet peeve of mine also.

[Levis107]

I never told somebody that they don't watch games and I never used it as a burn.  I was saying it as a general statement, it's a lot different than using it as an attack.

BballTim, I don't understand what your problem is with the attack claiming that I think I'm a "renowned basketball expert".  I never once said that and I think it's funny your getting so worked up over this.  My intentions aren't to bash KG at all I'm just pointing out something that I think the poster was on to.  Maybe the guy who started this thread was bashing KG for some reason but I was simply backing up a few points he made.  I'm sorry that this bothers you so much.

[drza44]

I never told somebody that they don't watch games and I never used it as a burn.  I was saying it as a general statement, it's a lot different than using it as an attack.

BballTim, I don't understand what your problem is with the attack claiming that I think I'm a "renowned basketball expert".  I never once said that and I think it's funny your getting so worked up over this.  My intentions aren't to bash KG at all I'm just pointing out something that I think the poster was on to.  Maybe the guy who started this thread was bashing KG for some reason but I was simply backing up a few points he made.  I'm sorry that this bothers you so much.

I think the part that got you in trouble was the "if you don't (agree with me and Bill Simmons) then you hadn't been watching the Celtics the last part of the season." 

Clearly, the vast majority of the people posting on this board were watching the Celtics at the end of last season.  And just as clearly, not everyone agrees with you and Bill Simmons.  Your point is not strengthened by suggesting that the only way that we could possibly disagree with you is if we were ignorant of the situation...you'd be much better served to give some examples then listen to the rebuttals to form a final decision.

For example, you could have pointed out that Garnett had his lowest rebound percentage since 2001 last season.  This could be used to suggest that he isn't rebounding as much and that perhaps that is due to a physical decline.  And you would have an arguable position with a factual defense. 

The rebuttal to that could be, as stated in this thread, that he has more teammates that can rebound so he may be instead putting his focus elsewhere.  KG set career bests last season in offensive rating, defensive rating, shooting percentage, and steal percentage.  So one could argue that his decline in rebounding is not due so much to age as it is to him putting more effort into his defense (both man-to-man and help) and scoring efficiency.

One could also point out that in the Finals, when it counted, KG was back to averaging more than 13 boards per game so he obviously can still do it at need.  To which, if you still disagree, you could come up with another informed response.  That is how a productive discussion proceeds, not with one person just making a claim and saying "if you don't agree it's because you must not watch the games".

[Finkelskyhook]

Is Kevin Garnett a shell of the dominant force from 01-05?

The only way we'll know the answer to that question is if Paul, Ray, Perk, or Rajon goes down for an extended period and Garnett has to be the player he was then.

Otherwise, he's not asked to do nearly as much or play nearly the minutes.

[BballTim]

I never told somebody that they don't watch games and I never used it as a burn.  I was saying it as a general statement, it's a lot different than using it as an attack.

BballTim, I don't understand what your problem is with the attack claiming that I think I'm a "renowned basketball expert".  I never once said that and I think it's funny your getting so worked up over this.  My intentions aren't to bash KG at all I'm just pointing out something that I think the poster was on to.  Maybe the guy who started this thread was bashing KG for some reason but I was simply backing up a few points he made.  I'm sorry that this bothers you so much.

  As was noted before, voicing an opinion and then proclaiming that anyone who doesn't agree with you hasn't been watching the games is pretty obnoxious.

[Donoghus]

Alright, let's keep it on topic
-Dons

[ma11l]

He looks pretty dominant tonight.  Getting where he wants on the floor and executing offensively.  Being active on the boards.  You can't judge players on one game when there are maybe 100 plus remaining during the year.