Is Kevin Garnett a shell of the dominant force from 01-05?

[TradeProposalDude]

There is no way on God's green earth that Garnett is still a top tier NBA player. Maybe top 15 today.

I know what he brings to the table that doesn't always show up on the scoresheet, but man is he unclutch, and you have got to be upset with his infatuation with outside shots considering his size. And it seems his worst shots come at the most inopportune moments of the game. That is why Pierce and Garnett balance eachother out. KG will fill a stats sheet in the 1st and 2nd quarters (usually) and help the team get off to a good start, while Pierce closes off games as really the only clutch option on the team.

Honestly, I know we should be proud of everyone's contribution after coming off a title bound year, but I think Garnett gets WAY too much credit for everything. It seems the people who only began following the Celtics last year tend to be the ones who insist KG's presence made the hands down difference in the vast improvement. It's easy to pick out one or two statistics and make that causal claim, but it's just not grounded in reality. The true reality is that Paul Pierce would have won titles if he had better supporting casts in his career.

To me, Pierce has hit top 5 plateau, when he's healthy and in shape. Truly the most underrated player in the NBA, and has been for a while. As for Allen, he's quite a bit farther down the list than KG and Pierce.

[LB3533]

Let's not let one poor opening night, post-ring ceremony game get in the way of facts here.

KG's going to end up producing close to 20/10 on high percentages and top notch defense...that is worth, at the least, top 10 in the league.

[mainevent]

There is no way on God's green earth that Garnett is still a top tier NBA player. Maybe top 15 today.

I know what he brings to the table that doesn't always show up on the scoresheet, but man is he unclutch, and you have got to be upset with his infatuation with outside shots considering his size. And it seems his worst shots come at the most inopportune moments of the game. That is why Pierce and Garnett balance eachother out. KG will fill a stats sheet in the 1st and 2nd quarters (usually) and help the team get off to a good start, while Pierce closes off games as really the only clutch option on the team.

Honestly, I know we should be proud of everyone's contribution after coming off a title bound year, but I think Garnett gets WAY too much credit for everything. It seems the people who only began following the Celtics last year tend to be the ones who insist KG's presence made the hands down difference in the vast improvement. It's easy to pick out one or two statistics and make that causal claim, but it's just not grounded in reality. The true reality is that Paul Pierce would have won titles if he had better supporting casts in his career.

To me, Pierce has hit top 5 plateau, when he's healthy and in shape. Truly the most underrated player in the NBA, and has been for a while. As for Allen, he's quite a bit farther down the list than KG and Pierce.

I think there's quite a few players and coaches in the league who would laugh hard at this comment, as well as most knowledgeable fans. He had a bad game 5 in the finals, and if I recall he was clutch in a few of those finals games as well. Clutch as in 4th quarter reliable. It baffles me how some people can make such harsh judgments like you can honestly see how he affects not only those around him in practices and such, but opponents also who knows what he capable of bringing to the table, on an on or off night.

[Chris]

If we are talking Fantasy league then yes.  He is nowhere near the fantasy player he used to be.  But he is absolutely as good a player in real life, he just isn't asked to do the same things he was back then. 

[indeedproceed]

I think its safe to say Kevin Garnett has  matured to the point where he no longer feels like he needs to be a dominant (offensive) force. Possibly not even a dominant force at all, just a team player.

Bet tho that if he was wearing a t-wolves uni last season we would've seen 20 pts, 10 rbs, and 1.8 blks.

[GJPBoston]

On the offensive end, I think Garnett is an All-Star caliber player, but not-hall-of-fame.  But offense is only half the game: Garnett is a top tier one-on-one defender and a hall-of-fame team defender.  Overall, Garnett is a hall-of-famer.  Is Garnett a dominant 4th quarter scorer?  No.  He can be and has been in some games, but generally that is not what he brings.  Why is that a big deal? 

What he brings on the defensive end is much more rare and valuable (especially when combined with his very good offensive skills).  Bill Russell was not a good offensive player (1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th quarter).  Should the Celtics have traded him (rhetorical question)?

When I try to think of a player's value to a team, I ask myself: what players could I trade this player for who would make the Celtics better.  The answer with respect to the 07-08 Celtics and Garnett is no one.  I think a reasonable person could argue that maybe the Celtics would have better with Duncan, but I don't think so.  But other than Duncan, there is no one in the NBA who (swapped for Garnett) would have made the Celtics better.  Now obviously that does not mean the Cavs would be better with Garnett instead of LeBron (they would not), but I do think there was no one in the league that, given Boston's roster, would bring as much to Boston.

[guava_wrench]

And is Ray Allen a complete scrub now?

KG is not forced to score as much and has to box out now instead of going solo for rebounds.

[BballTim]

There is no way on God's green earth that Garnett is still a top tier NBA player. Maybe top 15 today.

I know what he brings to the table that doesn't always show up on the scoresheet, but man is he unclutch, and you have got to be upset with his infatuation with outside shots considering his size. And it seems his worst shots come at the most inopportune moments of the game. That is why Pierce and Garnett balance eachother out. KG will fill a stats sheet in the 1st and 2nd quarters (usually) and help the team get off to a good start, while Pierce closes off games as really the only clutch option on the team.

Honestly, I know we should be proud of everyone's contribution after coming off a title bound year, but I think Garnett gets WAY too much credit for everything. It seems the people who only began following the Celtics last year tend to be the ones who insist KG's presence made the hands down difference in the vast improvement. It's easy to pick out one or two statistics and make that causal claim, but it's just not grounded in reality. The true reality is that Paul Pierce would have won titles if he had better supporting casts in his career.

To me, Pierce has hit top 5 plateau, when he's healthy and in shape. Truly the most underrated player in the NBA, and has been for a while. As for Allen, he's quite a bit farther down the list than KG and Pierce.

  I think someone checked over the summer and posted how KG not only led the team in scoring in the playoffs, he also led them in 4th quarter scoring. Pierce and KG had about the same clutch scoring (from 82games) both in the regular season and the playoffs. Also, the main reason we won the title was defense, not offense. KG (DPOY) ruled on that end. There's no way Pierce is top 5 and KG isn't even top 15.

  For the record, I've been following the Celts since the 70s (although closer after Bird arrived) and I also think Pierce has been underrated his entire career. But he's better than KG.

[Celtic]

KG is a top five player in the league, period. Any team in the NBA would fight for him to be on their team, just be thankful we have him.

[greenwise]

KG has great teammates and there is no need for him to dominate the stat sheet as he did in Minny. There have to be shots for another 2 all stars and some great team players like Tony or Rajon.

That said, KG is still the best 4 in the league

[Big Ticket]

oh geez...

[BigAlTheFuture]

Kevin Garnett is definitely still a top 5 player in the league. His presence is undeniable. Yes, he is not as dominant as he was in his prime, we all know that. But he is still one of the top-tier players in the league. He doesn't need to dominate when there are two future hall of famers on the same team.

[ManUp]

KG is definitely still top ten. I think your valuing stats a bit too much to realize what KG does. We should all know by now that KG would rather pass before shoot, and get other players going. He's more of a go with the flow type player on offense, a player who has no problem deferring. I know this is really cliche, but Garnett is one of those guys that makes the other guys around him better. He allows other players to do what they do If it's going to help win the game.

When player's around him are doing there jobs Garnett isn't going to look as impressive. He'll put his team mates in every position to succeed possible. It's when his teammates don't pull there weight that's when the stats show you how much of a top tier player he is. When players aren't pulling there weight he tries to do it himself (and does a fairly good job) so the scoring, rebounding, and assists numbers jump up. That's when you start to see how dominant he really is when he helps otherwise horrible teams over achieve. It's the same thing that Lebron is doing now.

As long as KG is on a team like the current Celtics. A team with 2 other all-stars, and with guys he trusts to make plays he's not going to look as impressive as he really is. On a team like this one he's just going to fill his role to the best of his abilities and try to help his team get a win. If we needed him to put up 20/12/5 I'm sure he could, but we don't we just need him to play defense, rebound, and create shots for others.

As for him not being clutch, I agree. He becomes a bit more out of control with the ball in his hand, and makes more mistakes when it's crunch time. In my opinion, it's a personality thing he's to intense for his own good at times, it's like he can't calm down, but that's why we have Pierce. Garnett is the guy who doesn't want the pressure of taking the last shot, and Pierce is the guy who loves the pressure, it's the perfect marriage.

[kw10]

mmmm.....

I used to care about KG's stats when he was in 'sota. Not anymore. Why? Because his team's winning now! At the end of the day, that's all that matters. Who cares who gets the scoring title or MVP?
KG might not be as 'dominant' as he was now, but he is still a very special player no teams would not want. As been said many times, it's the intangibles that he brings that's so valuable.

[Big Ticket]

And just for the sake of it...

Shaq started a steady but slightly rapid decline in his 14th season.

Michael Jordan's 14th and 15th season were the two with the Wizards.

Kareem Abdul Jabbar never averaged more than 7.9 board a game after his 13th season and scored 5-10 PPG lower than his peak years.

Charles Barkley only played 3 seasons after finishing his 13th year and averaged 15.2, 16.2, and 14.5 points on .485, .478, and .477 shooting.

Karl Malone, possibly the most physically durable basketball player ever, played 6 seasons after his 13th and only shot better than 50% once and never averaged double digit boards.

I don't really need to explain what this shows in regards to KG.