Get the ball to Ray Allen and let him run the offense (with the bench)

[moiso]

Tony is by far a better passer than Ray.  Ray doesn't see the court as well, nor does he set up teammates.  Tony is known as the out of control one, but pretty frequently Ray gets the ball on a fast break and passes to someones ankles and we lose the ball.

[EJPLAYA]

I think you might want to watch the game closer yourself my friend, because TA averaged only 1 assist a game last year and 1.3 his entire career. If the guy was "regularly" wrapping passes around his defender then he would have more than 1 assist a game. Considering he had to have passed a few passes around the perimeter that guys hit jumpers on, then the numbers shrink even smaller.

If your going to play the 'assist' game at least normalize for minutes played. <g> Anyway I think you have to be either quite blind or incredibly biased not to see Tony Allen setting up his teamates. There really is very little room for argument. It's plain as day he sets up his teamates. Even Jeff Van Gundy and company were talking about it tonight.

I don't think the fact that Big Baby can't finish as well as your average 6'1" PG should be held against TA... That's the problem with putting too much faith in assist numbers. I would also add that depending on WHO TA is playing with he may not be put into the postition of being a play maker.

When PP or Rondo is on the court - his playmaking is not needed. But he has been quite succesful playing the PG spot on occasion - like he did last year vs. the Lakers.

Minutes played has nothing to do with it. His comment is that he "regularly" wraps around to his teammates for easy shots. That just isn't accurate. The number of assists are what they are. The turnovers are what they are. Most of last year Powe was in there as well, and we know Powe can finish around the rim. If the shots were simple shots, then even BBD (as bad as he is under the rim) could finish them.

As far as the announcers go, I know exactly the moment you were speaking about, and the following 2 plays TA proceeded to turn the ball over twice forcing a bad shot each time with a wide open guy on the wing. These announcers see these teams a couple times a year and make comments that are absolutely off base half the time. I guarantee you that we as fans know our players tendencies and strengths a lot better than the "color commentator" does. At least some of us I guess...

[BudweiserCeltic]

Yet TA had no turnovers in the first game, and only 1 the second game.

[EJPLAYA]

Yet TA had 1 assist each game... I have stated on here this preseason and after game 1 that TA looks a lot better than he did the past couple years. I am not trying to say he doesn't add value out there as a slasher and scorer. I am only rebutting the comment that the guy is this great drive and "dish" player who "regularly" sets up his teammates for easy dunks and layups around the rim. It just isn't true and the stats back that up.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Though I agree he doesn't do it frequently, he does do it more often than what you're giving him credit for. He did it about 3 times last night, with nothing to show for it stats wise. The stats also don't count the times he sets someone up, there's a defensive rotation (that leaves yet another person open), and that someone passes it to the open guy. Everything was setup by TA, but he doesn't get the credit stats wise.

Another thing that I do agree with is that he's not hitting the open man as often as I would like, but that doesn't negate that he DOES set his teammates up more often than you give him credit for.

[EJPLAYA]

Though I agree he doesn't do it frequently, he does do it more often than what you're giving him credit for. He did it about 3 times last night, with nothing to show for it stats wise. The stats also don't count the times he sets someone up, there's a defensive rotation (that leaves yet another person open), and that someone passes it to the open guy. Everything was setup by TA, but he doesn't get the credit stats wise.

Another thing that I do agree with is that he's not hitting the open man as often as I would like, but that doesn't negate that he DOES set his teammates up more often than you give him credit for.

I watched the game last night like every night, and can promise you he didn't "wrap around" 3 times last night. I also am only contradicting the dramatically overblown statement that he does it "regularly" which is not true. I doubt anyone on here with the game on the line would rather have TA driving and dishing than Ray Allen. That is an absurd unfounded comment to make with the guy being labeled "Tony Turnover" his entire career. If he set them up even as much as you are saying he'd have more assists. If his passes go to BBD down on the block, then he's too dumb to realize BBD can't finish around the rim and that is just as bad as a turnover.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I guess this is a bit about semmantics... I was talking about setting up players, which is really what we should care about, instead of only the "wrap around" kind.

I guess it doesn't help that House, Scal, and BBD where having bad shooting nights (and the previous one too). Ray isn't knocking down the open shots regularly either. That only leaves Powe.

Oh, and you know what else doesn't get credited as an assist? When someone gets fouled. Funny, that Powe gets to the line very often... I wonder how many passes from TA get wasted this way.

[wdleehi]

I think you might want to watch the game closer yourself my friend, because TA averaged only 1 assist a game last year and 1.3 his entire career. If the guy was "regularly" wrapping passes around his defender then he would have more than 1 assist a game. Considering he had to have passed a few passes around the perimeter that guys hit jumpers on, then the numbers shrink even smaller.

If your going to play the 'assist' game at least normalize for minutes played. <g> Anyway I think you have to be either quite blind or incredibly biased not to see Tony Allen setting up his teamates. There really is very little room for argument. It's plain as day he sets up his teamates. Even Jeff Van Gundy and company were talking about it tonight.

I don't think the fact that Big Baby can't finish as well as your average 6'1" PG should be held against TA... That's the problem with putting too much faith in assist numbers. I would also add that depending on WHO TA is playing with he may not be put into the postition of being a play maker.

When PP or Rondo is on the court - his playmaking is not needed. But he has been quite succesful playing the PG spot on occasion - like he did last year vs. the Lakers.

Difference in that play if it was Pierce, KG, Ray and even Rondo vs. TA. 

Those guys pull the defense before the pass to a Davis.  TA passed it to him while three guys were still around Davis.  While Davis was close to the basket, it wasn't an easy shot created.  There were two guys taller then him right there.


Don't get me wrong, I like the passes last night.  If he can do that constantly, then the Celtics are better off.   

[nickagneta]

Yeah, I'm glad I got out of this discussion when I did. Good job Nick.

**Pats myself on the back**

[Bankshot]

TA is going to run the offensive in the second unit. He has more the alpha dog kind of personality you need to do that. He gets gruff for it from SOME posters but the end results from his aggressiveness are often very good.

At this point in time TA is a better drive and dish guy then RA. RA just has to drift to open spots on the floor. TA will hit him and all will be good with the Cs.

Pete

I agree with this.  Tony has been wayyyy off with his shot, but his passing has been a pleasant surprise.  I don't like the ball in Ray's hands to initiate offense because he's a terrible passer and is likely to turn it over than make the right pass, especially on a fast break opportunity. 

[EJPLAYA]

1 assist per game in his career. Enough said... We are way over blowing the guys passing ability on here. When he goes to the rim I don't want him to do anything more than either finish, or get fouled and hit his two free throws anyway. That's all he really is good at on the offensive end.

I like the improvement in TA this year over last and hope the guy continues to improve. Do what you are good at though. Anything else and you hurt your team.

[EJPLAYA]

You know. I think I owe a big apology. I appear to have been completely wrong about TA's driving and dishing. He was spectacular tonight dropping off dunks and easy shots for all his teammates out there... Oh wait. That's not right. He did the same tonight as I have been posting on this thing all along. He lowered his head and drove to the basket with no other intent than to score. He did a decent job of that drawing a foul a few times. He also turned the ball over 3 times doing it and not once looked to pass except the one time he was stopped and trapped by two guys on the baseline. Then he attempted to throw it out to someone and it was deflected out of bounds.

I am not ripping on his game tonight. I think he was one of the only effective guys off the bench. I am saying that it was exactly what it usually is. Semi-out of control head down driving to the rim. Sometimes effective, sometimes not. But a playmaker?! Not a chance!