Author Topic: I want to dispel this notion before the season starts.  (Read 10802 times)

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I want to dispel this notion before the season starts.
« on: October 22, 2008, 09:07:17 AM »

Offline CelticsWhat35

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We heard it against the Cavs.  We heard it against the Pistons, and we heard it against the Lakers.  We heard it during the offseason and we're hearing it during the preseason.  It's something that "experts" try to grasp at when looking for reasons that The Celtics won't win it all (or in this case repeat).  A lot "experts" have mentioned it, but none so loudly and abnoxiously as Stephen A. Smith.

"This is a team that almost got bounced out in the first round."

Really?  Could someone please tell me when that 4th loss almost happened?  Was it when they squeeked out a 23 point win in game 1?  Or maybe when they won a hard fought game 2 by 19?  Maybe it was the classic game 5 battle that the Celtics won by 25?  Oh no, it must've been the epic struggle that went down to the wire in game 7 (99-65).

I guess I just have a different definition of "almost".  I don't think losing 4 games by over 25 ppg constitutes "almost" winning anything.

And even if we concede that they "almost" lost in the first round, what does it matter?  They won the whole thing.  That's a pretty backwards analysis in determing whether a team will win it again.  I guess Michael Jordan can't be considered the best player in the history of the game, because he was cut from his high school varsity team his sophomore year.   ::)

Re: I want to dispel this notion before the season starts.
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2008, 09:09:59 AM »

Offline Jeff

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well, there were those other 3 losses and the fact that it went 7 games - meaning that the Hawks were 48 minutes away from beating us, but I guess that's not worth noting
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Re: I want to dispel this notion before the season starts.
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2008, 09:12:36 AM »

Online Celtic

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True, also who cares which games they lost and to who, when they won more than anyone in the first place, and in the process won a championship. Best is best, no matter how they try to skew it.

Re: I want to dispel this notion before the season starts.
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2008, 09:12:41 AM »

Online BudweiserCeltic

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well, there were those other 3 losses and the fact that it went 7 games - meaning that the Hawks were 48 minutes away from beating us, but I guess that's not worth noting

Not worth noting when you consider that we obviously let them win those games as to not embarass them.

Re: I want to dispel this notion before the season starts.
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2008, 09:27:54 AM »

Offline CelticsWhat35

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well, there were those other 3 losses and the fact that it went 7 games - meaning that the Hawks were 48 minutes away from beating us, but I guess that's not worth noting

I don't discount that they won 3 games.  I'm discounting the notion that Celtics were ever in jeopardy of losing a 4th.  You know, the Broncos were 60 minutes away from winning Super Bowl XXIV.  Ask Denver fans if they "almost" won that one.

Re: I want to dispel this notion before the season starts.
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2008, 09:34:43 AM »

Offline Jeff

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well, there were those other 3 losses and the fact that it went 7 games - meaning that the Hawks were 48 minutes away from beating us, but I guess that's not worth noting

I don't discount that they won 3 games.  I'm discounting the notion that Celtics were ever in jeopardy of losing a 4th.  You know, the Broncos were 60 minutes away from winning Super Bowl XXIV.  Ask Denver fans if they "almost" won that one.

that's not a great example - the Super Bowl is one game

All I'm saying is that over the course of the series, the Celtics and Hawks started game 7 with an equal chance of winning the series.  Like it or not, the Hawks were a threat.

Were the Celtics the better team?  Sure.  Does that mean they were never in any danger of losing?  Nope.  If the better team always won, the Hawks wouldn't have won 3 games.

I guess it boils down to perspective.  The notion that you are trying to dispel in this thread seems like a valid notion to me, and not worth dispelling.  But to each his own.
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Re: I want to dispel this notion before the season starts.
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2008, 09:54:31 AM »

Offline CelticsWhat35

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well, there were those other 3 losses and the fact that it went 7 games - meaning that the Hawks were 48 minutes away from beating us, but I guess that's not worth noting

I don't discount that they won 3 games.  I'm discounting the notion that Celtics were ever in jeopardy of losing a 4th.  You know, the Broncos were 60 minutes away from winning Super Bowl XXIV.  Ask Denver fans if they "almost" won that one.

that's not a great example - the Super Bowl is one game

All I'm saying is that over the course of the series, the Celtics and Hawks started game 7 with an equal chance of winning the series.  Like it or not, the Hawks were a threat.

Were the Celtics the better team?  Sure.  Does that mean they were never in any danger of losing?  Nope.  If the better team always won, the Hawks wouldn't have won 3 games.

I guess it boils down to perspective.  The notion that you are trying to dispel in this thread seems like a valid notion to me, and not worth dispelling.  But to each his own.

The Super Bowl may be one game, but so is a game 7.  And when it's being played at the Garden, where they beat the opposing team handily in 3 straight games, I think that's relevant.

It's one thing when the "experts" were using it in their reasoning for picking the Cavs over the Celtics in round 2, but it's an entirely different thing when it's being used as a basis for the 2008-2009 season.

Re: I want to dispel this notion before the season starts.
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2008, 09:56:38 AM »

Offline Redz

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Was I frustrated that the Celts lost 3 in Atlanta?  Of course.

Did I ever think, for a second, that they'd lose that series. No.

The only times I was truly afraid of the Celtics not winning a series were Game 7 with Lebron going off vs the Cavs, and Game 3 in Detroit coming off a home loss.

That said, by even having to play a 7th game vs the Hawks, the Celts put themselves in jeopardy. What if KG had a stomach virus or something and couldn't go.  Something to that end. 

He didn't.  The Celts smoked the Hawks silly and there was never a doubt.
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Re: I want to dispel this notion before the season starts.
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2008, 10:12:12 AM »

Offline jay_jay54

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Ive always held the notion,if a team makes the playoffs,anything's possible...no gaurantees .
« Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 02:34:08 PM by jay_jay54 »

Re: I want to dispel this notion before the season starts.
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2008, 10:50:29 AM »

Offline Birdbrain

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A total myth perpetuated by the media to elicit page views from fans of other teams. 

The C's were in no threat to lose to Atlanta at home without taking all reason and judgment out of the equation.

The notion is flawed.
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Re: I want to dispel this notion before the season starts.
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2008, 11:21:56 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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I wonder if back in 2000 when the champion Los Angeles Lakers(67-15 that year) were taken to the brink by the 44 win Sacramento Kings if Screaming A. Smith and the rest of the pundits that pull out the old "but they almost loss to the Atlanta Hawks" theory as to why they weren't that good of a champion or won't repeat, said the same thing at the beginning of the next year because the vaunted Lakers "almost loss to the Sacramento Kings" 3-2?

I seem to remember an awful lot of people predicting repeat back then.

As much as I have to agree, at least from my perspective, that the Celtics did almost lose a series, important difference than that of losing a game, I just don't see what it has to do with this year or their legacy.

Re: I want to dispel this notion before the season starts.
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2008, 11:22:17 AM »

Offline KJR

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No question, the Celtics played tight in the first two rounds.  They loosened up considerably against Detroit and LA.

They were expected to at least get to the Conf. Finals.  There were no guarantees before the season they would beat Detroit or the Western Conf. Champ.

If they had lost in the 1st two rounds, their season in the eyes of many fans would have been a disappointment, even after winning 66.

So, they were very uptight ... which is understandable.

I still don't think they were ever in danger of losing the Atlanta series.  Cleveland was a struggle.

Now I'll say something that I'm sure will provoke a lot of derision.

If the shot clock hadn't gone off for 18 minutes in the 2nd half of game 3 in Atlanta, the Celtics would have won the game and the series in 4 or 5 games; and with the extra rest, they would have beaten Cleveland in 5 or 6 also.  That one event had a major impact on both series.

I know the Celtics never make excuses.  I know that a great team with poise and experience should be able to play through that.  Clearly the Celtics did not exhibit the poise and experience they should have.  It was their first playoff trip together, and as I said they played not to lose (and so they lost).

But the shot clock was a major factor in that game.  The Celtics were up a few when it went off (at the half), and they were down 8-10 with a few minutes left in the game when it came back on.

The reason it was such a factor relates to the styles of the two teams.  On offense, the Hawks strategy was to get the ball up the court and get a shot up in the first 10 seconds.  The shot clock for them was irrelevant.  On offense, the Celtics strategy was to move the ball, use as much clock as necessary and get the best shot available.  They frequently shoot in the last few seconds of a possession.  Well, if you don't know the exact time you have left, the tendency is to shoot sooner rather than later (i.e. get into an early shooting, up and down kind of game).  On defense, the Hawks would likely break down in the last seconds of a possession.  If the Celtics are shooting early, that's playing into the Hawks' hands.  It makes their defense better.  On defense, the Celtics sustain an effort for 24 seconds.  If you don't know where the clock is, it's very difficult to work toward that goal.  The Celtics looked completely out of synch during that stretch; and when the clocks came back on, it was too late.  That got the Hawks into the series.  If the Celtics had won that game, they would have been up 3-0 and won in 4 or at most 5 games.  Cleveland won in 5 or 6 (?) and had a few extra days rest.  It was all the Celtics could do to hang on at home in games 1 and 2, before being blown out in Cleveland.  I thought they were just kind of catching their breath.  They probably knew at that point it would be a 7 game series.  They didn't really look right until game 5 of the Detroit series.  In game 6, they knocked the bully out, and had their swagger back.  I knew they were going to beat LA, and pretty handily and said so publicly on numerous other blogs at the time.

Anyway, that's the truth about the Hawks series.  Maybe not an excuse, but an explanation.  They were uptight, and they didn't deal well with an unexpected change in the game.  Momentum shifts and extra rest can have a major impact on a post-season series.

I don't think that distraction (or any other) will throw them off their game this year.  They are playing with a lot more confidence.

Re: I want to dispel this notion before the season starts.
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2008, 11:29:29 AM »

Offline Birdbrain

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TP because of a very thought provoking post.  Thanks.
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Re: I want to dispel this notion before the season starts.
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2008, 12:45:38 PM »

Offline Michael Anthony

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A couple of points before writing off the "lowly" Atlanta Hawks:

1. Joe Johnson and Mike Bibby have been all stars. Al Hortford and Josh Smith will be all stars in the future. Childress was one of the top sixth men in the league.

2. After losing Bibby's first two games with the team, the Hawks played .500 basketball for the rest of the season.

3. The C's did not approach the playoffs in top form - in April Pierce (27), Allen (29), and Garnett (26) got out of rythm by playing limitted minutes at low intesity.

4. Young teams that run often outperform expectations in the playoffs, like Atlanta and Philly last season, and Golden State the season before.
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Re: I want to dispel this notion before the season starts.
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2008, 01:01:48 PM »

Offline MaxwellSmart

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The real reason the Hawks series went 7 games, was because Doc changed his rotation to start the playoffs--Doesn't anyone remember this??....He finally changed it back during the Clevland series....I saw an interview with Danny a coupe of months ago, where he said something like that.