KG = McHale?

[ScoobyDoo]

Ainge said earlier in the summer that if they lost Posey they would still be a great team. They would just be a different team, a team that played "bigger".

Kevin McHale used to guard some of the small forwards by using his length so they would run by him and his reach to affect their shots.

How about this/

If we anted to get more run this year for Big Baby and Powe, what about using KG at the small forward for 10 of his 36 minutes a night while Pierce is resting?

How about experimenting with a lineup of:

Perkins or O'Bryant
Powe
KG
Ray or Tony
Rondo or House, etc...

Talk about a nightmare for the other team...

I think:

1. KG could defiantely defend that position for short spurts. He has both the speed and the length

2. He would destroy whoever is guarding him in the post and he also has a good enough outside shot to spread the floor a bit...

Perkins
Powe
Garnett

across the front line...

I know it's a stretch but I'd at least try it as a coach.

[Atzar]

I actually wouldn't mind seeing that set at some point.  I'd go with two of Ray/House/Pruitt over Rondo and TA, though.  With Leon and Perk/POB in the middle, you need some outside shooters to spread the floor out.  I still don't trust Rondo's jumpshot, and TA is at his best going to the hole.  That would be a lot harder with so much beef clogging the lane. 

I do think KG could play SF in small doses though.  KG is quick enough to defend there for awhile, and he would kill any SF in the league on the post save for maybe LeBron (as you said).  I wouldn't want to see it every night, but it would create matchup problems for a lot of teams in the league and would be an interesting look to throw out there occasionally.

[Who]

If KG was 5 years younger I'd say yes definitely

Now? I'm not convinced it's in KG's or the team's best interests at this stage of his career ... but there's enough virtue to the idea that I'd say it's worth experimenting with but the team should make sure he doesn't tire himself out/effect his performances adversely.

[TitleMaster]

should make sure he doesn't tire himself out/effect his performances adversely

Well, I think it's at most, 10 mins per game. Otherwise, like McHale, KG will burn out even if he doesn't play on a broken ankle.

[drza44]

When I saw the thread title, I was expecting something different.  But on this topic...

KG began his career as a SF, and though he has lost some of his quickness he can still defend some perimeter players in spurts.  That said, he is much better and the team is much better at this point with him at PF.  One of the great strengths of his defense is that he can not only shut down the man he is guarding, but he can also help off of his man and create havoc as a team defender.  Against quicker small forwards that can pull KG to the perimeter and punish him if he leaves, though, the help defense aspect of KG's game is lost.  

That is part of why the Cs have more trouble than they should with teams like the Hawks and Bobcats: both of those teams really start athletic SFs at PF (Josh Smith and Gerald Wallace), and as such KG is forced to be more of a 1-on-1 defender than a team defender.  KG still does a good job on his man (i.e. Smith shooting 39.8% in the playoffs last year and Wallace shooting 40% against the Cs in the regular season), but the team doesn't get the benefit of his roaming and guys like Joe Johnson (or Jason Richardson, in Charlotte's case) that normally KG would help keep in check are able to go off.

Maybe in short spurts against the second unit a big frontline with KG at SF could work in certain cases, but on the whole (like Who suggested) I don't think it is in the best interest of either him or the team.

[Big Ticket]

It is an interesting scenario.  It obviously wasn't necessary last year, because of the 1-2 punch at SF of Pierce and Posey.  If you remember back 5 years to February, 2003, some people would say KG's real "I'm here." announcement to the basketball world was his All Star game performance in which he dropped in 37 points and took home MVP (although anyone who cared about the happenings in Minnesota realized how dominant he was by 2000 or so).  A good chunk of those points, in OT and 2OT, came while playing SF and having the blatantly too small and helpless Vince Carter guarding him.

Or remember back to earlier that same season, when after a narrow loss to the Wolves in which KG was defending TMac for a majority of the game, McGrady (32+ ppg that year) came away saying that it was "the best he had ever been defended in his life".

Nonetheless, like Who said, 5 years ago.... sure.  But KG has lost a step since.  For the 10 minutes per night scenario you suggested, I could see it working, depending on the matchups.  I still think he is fully capable of playing spurts of lockdown D on the perimeter.  I think a lineup of House, Ray, KG, Powe, Perk would have enough perimeter shooting to work and create some matchup problems while Pierce rested, but it'd be tricky for Doc to balance it all out to make it work.  I think the best hope is for Walker/Giddens to develop quickly over the first month or two of the season.

[drza44]

I just thought of a few more examples from last season: the Magic (both Turkoglu and Lewis are really SFs), the Wizards (Jamison is a smaller PF that plays on offense a lot like a SF with perimeter jumpers), and the Hornets (West is similar to Jamison).  In fact, at first blush, the majority of Celtics losses last season came to teams with either tweener PFs or SFs playing PF that could limit KG's ability to be a help defender.  Don't really have time to flesh out that theory, but I wonder if there is actually more there than I initially thought when I started typing my response.

[Who]

I just thought of a few more examples from last season: the Magic (both Turkoglu and Lewis are really SFs), the Wizards (Jamison is a smaller PF that plays on offense a lot like a SF with perimeter jumpers), and the Hornets (West is similar to Jamison).  In fact, at first blush, the majority of Celtics losses last season came to teams with either tweener PFs or SFs playing PF that could limit KG's ability to be a help defender.  Don't really have time to flesh out that theory, but I wonder if there is actually more there than I initially thought when I started typing my response.

Also players like Mehmet Okur .... perimeter bigs in general caused the C's defense problems. Took their usual fail-safes out of the picture, and made it harder to protect the glass.

The Raptors would be another team, they had that hot shooting night plus played the team to overtime early in season ... in addition to the several teams you mentioned drza44. Perimeter bigs in general caused the team problems.

[xmuscularghandix]

if you had a lineup of:
Rondo
RAllen
Garnett
Powe
Perkins

i think it would work very nicely both becuase you'd have two bangers in the middle for a very strong inside/ rebounding presence. you'd have rondo's ability to lead the team and get good looks (obv), allen to keep the opponant honest defensively by being the long threat, and KG would be able to dominate the post game against a smaller defender and possibly defensively against a "drive first" type of forward. 


and if they picked up on it and doubled kg in the post he can easily kick it to any 4 of those players for the open look.

[wdleehi]

I could see the Celtics putting KG on Lebron for short stretches in the playoffs, letting the weakest defender guard Wallace. 

[Emperor Young]

I know KG can play SF.. I just don't see the reason to play him at SF. On offense, it doesn't really matter if KG plays the 3 because an opposing team will put a 4 on him. On defense, if KG has to play guys like lebron or Carmelo, he is more liable to pick up fouls due to an opponent's speed advantage. The bottom line is, I like KG going against PFs that are slower and less atheletic than him.

[ScoobyDoo]

Yes, I agree that against teams with athletic players at the four who took KG outside we got hurt ( Wash, Charlotte, Atlanta, etc). So this probably wouldn't work and I also do agree that in and ideal situation we play KG for his full 36 at the PF and perhpas a couple minutes at the 5 spot if necessary ( though I don't really like that either ). I like position players who nail down their spot and for KG that is clearly the 4 spot.

However, with that being said and "if":

1. We don't sign another true small forward who is 6'7" to 6'9" more along the lines of Pierce and Posey and...

2. The smallish TAllen isn't cutting it and...

3. The young Bill Walker isn't ready and...

4. The slowish Scal isn't cutting it either...

I would definately throw KG in there at small forward for a try. I'd probably want either Perkins or O'bryant with Powe in this case because though short, with his long arms Powe provides more shot affecting influence inside than Baby does. So Powe and either Perk or POB could hold down the interior.

Also, if KG is playing about 36-38 minutes a night, does it matter where? To me, if those minutes were coming at more at center I'd say yes, because he'd be getting beat up physically. But at small forward it might actually be a breather for him by not having to bang with the PF's for the full 38 every night...

Even at 32, he's still a great athlete with great length....that he could use like McHale

It might just be a way to get Powe and baby more run to let them grow this year

Ideally I want to see Walker nail the back up spot but if he can't KG might be a great replacement for for Posey at the 3 spot for a few minutes a night... 

[Schupac]

When I saw the thread title, I was expecting something different.  But on this topic...

KG began his career as a SF, and though he has lost some of his quickness he can still defend some perimeter players in spurts.  That said, he is much better and the team is much better at this point with him at PF.  One of the great strengths of his defense is that he can not only shut down the man he is guarding, but he can also help off of his man and create havoc as a team defender.  Against quicker small forwards that can pull KG to the perimeter and punish him if he leaves, though, the help defense aspect of KG's game is lost.  

That is part of why the Cs have more trouble than they should with teams like the Hawks and Bobcats: both of those teams really start athletic SFs at PF (Josh Smith and Gerald Wallace), and as such KG is forced to be more of a 1-on-1 defender than a team defender.  KG still does a good job on his man (i.e. Smith shooting 39.8% in the playoffs last year and Wallace shooting 40% against the Cs in the regular season), but the team doesn't get the benefit of his roaming and guys like Joe Johnson (or Jason Richardson, in Charlotte's case) that normally KG would help keep in check are able to go off.

Maybe in short spurts against the second unit a big frontline with KG at SF could work in certain cases, but on the whole (like Who suggested) I don't think it is in the best interest of either him or the team.

I have to agree with you on this one.  While it is certainly not a bad idae to have KG play some at the 3 spot, I think this team's greatest strength was it's team defense.  KG was able to, from inside the middle, patrol and help out a large number of players.  Asking him to play man to man on a swing player wouldn't be playing to KG's strenghts.

It is the kind of thing to keep under your hat in case of a matchup advantage, maybe with a team that has a 3man weak on the perimeter shooting, but that is pretty rare.

[xmuscularghandix]

I know KG can play SF.. I just don't see the reason to play him at SF. On offense, it doesn't really matter if KG plays the 3 because an opposing team will put a 4 on him. On defense, if KG has to play guys like lebron or Carmelo, he is more liable to pick up fouls due to an opponent's speed advantage. The bottom line is, I like KG going against PFs that are slower and less atheletic than him.

understandable, but if they put their PF on him anyways that leaves either perk, bbd, powe, or obryant being guarded by a SF.

[nickagneta]

Just going back to the first sentence of the OP's post:

Ainge said earlier in the summer that if they lost Posey they would still be a great team. They would just be a different team, a team that played "bigger".

If truly Ainge feels this way, and I am not disputing that he did because I remember him saying something about wanting to play bigger when discussing the "small ball" lineup of Posey at the 4, why is it the only "big" addition to this club in the offseason was a soft seven footer?

This is one of the reasons I had a problem with Ainge's offseason moves. He acknowledged in public that the team plays better and was most effective when they played a with a more conventionally sized lineup but then he goes out and replaces Posey and PJ Brown with a soft seven footer and rookies. Seems counterproductive and a bit strange to me.

As for the Powe/KG/Perkins lineup, I think we would see it against a team like Los Angeles some. Roughing up their front line worked in the Finals and they are big at all three frontcourt positions. Putting Powe or KG on Odom isn't that big of a stretch.

I think that lineup would be used more as a counter to certain lineups but I doubt it would be a lineup initiated by Doc with any specific offensive intentions behind it.