Delonte West battling depression

[Finkelskyhook]

Skepticism about this industry is extremely warranted.  

The absolute fraud of attention deficit disorder and the overmedication thereof has wiped out any credibility the mental health industry (oxymorn) has.  

I don't doubt Delonte has issues.  He's one strange dude on a good day.  Hopefully the Cavs find somebody in the industry who's trustworthy.  They might be looking awhile.

[nickagneta]

what did he say that was ignorant? I believe that he explained himself pretty good except that his words are being taken out of context. Now I know that this is a serious illness that can affect people in many ways. But I also think that depression can be used as a scapgoat and doesn't make people face the problems in their lives. Meds are being handed out like candy these days by "informed people" and people are not being forced to deal with life. My mother in law mother was given pill after pill for depression and not one of them helped. She was a zombie and ultimatly took her own life. Instead, these perscriptions and therapy did nothing but perpetuate her problems, many of which were self created. Now if she had to face life head on and was forced to provide for herself and be accountable for her actions, she might be alive today. But I can say the road these doctors put her on didn't work.

Now I don't know what the deal is with DW. I'm not going to judge him. I wish him well and hope he's able to get his life back together.
But one thing is clear, every diagnosis made and theory as to why deprssion happens may not entirly be correct.
So when a guy has a differing opinion, lets not crucify him and jump on the "I'm more caring train" but realize that theories are not proven and there are different sides to every issue.

On the other hand, if your mother-in-law had to "face life head on" and deal with reality years prior instead of taking those prescriptions, she more than likely would have killed herself years and years ago.

This is a disease. Get that straight. And it deals with the most delicate and unknown part of the human anatomy, the human brain. Every brain works differently. Every case is different. There are many different kinds of mental illness and many different drugs that are used. For some, there hasn't been a drug that works for them. It hasn't been invented yet.

You are perpetuating the stigma that people with depression can "snap out of it" or that somehow the field of medicine in this field is dealing with just "theories" or that somehow the medications are over prescribed. Just because some idiots might take advantage of the Social Security system by playing mentally ill doesn't mean that the overwhelming majority of people being treated for mental illness are faking. These medicines are prescribed for people who need them and often people to build up resistances to them that render them useless so another drug is used. Often several are used in unison in varying quantities.

This isn't chemotherapy where you have this cancer so we use x amount of medicines A, B, and C for 6 months to treat it. This isn't diabetes where if your blood sugar level is x you take y amount of insulin. It is very, very different and the drug companies, the drugs, and the doctors that prescribe them shouldn't be vilified simply because of some idiots who fake diseases or because people don't like the fact that many people have to be put on Social Security because of their incapacity due to the disease.

[BrickJames]

There will be no consensus in this thread.  This is a borderline "politics" discussion.

Some people believe this to be a "disease".
Others believe it to be a "disorder".

Some claim medication, which by all accounts relieves the symptoms, is beneficial at large.
Others believe that medication is over-prescribed, not absolutely necessary, and perpetuates the beliefs of the former.

Agree to disagree.  Please talk about the "NBA" or merge this to an off-topic forum.  I keep checking this thread thinking that there might be something about hoops in here.

Thanks

[nickagneta]

There will be no consensus in this thread.  This is a borderline "politics" discussion.

Some people believe this to be a "disease".
Others believe it to be a "disorder".

Some claim medication, which by all accounts relieves the symptoms, is beneficial at large.
Others believe that medication is over-prescribed, not absolutely necessary, and perpetuates the beliefs of the former.

Agree to disagree.  Please talk about the "NBA" or merge this to an off-topic forum.  I keep checking this thread thinking that there might be something about hoops in here.

Thanks

LOL. Brick, what in the name of the title of this thread gives you the idea that basketball will be talked about in it? 

Seriously though, you are right this conversation is heading down the wrong direction because it could become very political. Many people's general thoughts and ideas regarding this subject start first and foremost with the political ramifications of this disease.

I think part of the problem is in the name of the general disease. Depression is an emotion everyone feels. It is also a disease. Maybe it should be called Neuro-Transmitter Deficiency Disorder or something like that. It could prevent some of the misconceptions of the disease.

[BrickJames]

There will be no consensus in this thread.  This is a borderline "politics" discussion.

Some people believe this to be a "disease".
Others believe it to be a "disorder".

Some claim medication, which by all accounts relieves the symptoms, is beneficial at large.
Others believe that medication is over-prescribed, not absolutely necessary, and perpetuates the beliefs of the former.

Agree to disagree.  Please talk about the "NBA" or merge this to an off-topic forum.  I keep checking this thread thinking that there might be something about hoops in here.

Thanks

LOL. Brick, what in the name of the title of this thread gives you the idea that basketball will be talked about in it? 

Seriously though, you are right this conversation is heading down the wrong direction because it could become very political. Many people's general thoughts and ideas regarding this subject start first and foremost with the political ramifications of this disease.

I think part of the problem is in the name of the general disease. Depression is an emotion everyone feels. It is also a disease. Maybe it should be called Neuro-Transmitter Deficiency Disorder or something like that. It could prevent some of the misconceptions of the disease.

Dude, I won't be baited.  Even wikipedia says you're wrong though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_depression 

Go read it.

[nickagneta]

There will be no consensus in this thread.  This is a borderline "politics" discussion.

Some people believe this to be a "disease".
Others believe it to be a "disorder".

Some claim medication, which by all accounts relieves the symptoms, is beneficial at large.
Others believe that medication is over-prescribed, not absolutely necessary, and perpetuates the beliefs of the former.

Agree to disagree.  Please talk about the "NBA" or merge this to an off-topic forum.  I keep checking this thread thinking that there might be something about hoops in here.

Thanks

LOL. Brick, what in the name of the title of this thread gives you the idea that basketball will be talked about in it? 

Seriously though, you are right this conversation is heading down the wrong direction because it could become very political. Many people's general thoughts and ideas regarding this subject start first and foremost with the political ramifications of this disease.

I think part of the problem is in the name of the general disease. Depression is an emotion everyone feels. It is also a disease. Maybe it should be called Neuro-Transmitter Deficiency Disorder or something like that. It could prevent some of the misconceptions of the disease.

Dude, I won't be baited.  Even wikipedia says you're wrong though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_depression 

Go read it.

And yet dictionary.com's definition of the word disease starts primarily with the word disorder, almost to the point of being the first word used in the definition.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/disease?o=0

I won't argue semantics with you but I will say I do not like the idea that people believe that what I have and what happened to me is something I chose to happen as the use of the word disorder implies. Experts can argue all they want regarding "theories". Unless you have experienced what happens to you in a physiological sense, people will always argue it's existence and it's effects.

By the way, I never baited you. I just used the word disease. The fact that you felt I was baiting you speaks to just how set you are in your opinion about the matter. Me I think it's all semantics. Disorder, disease. It doesn't matter. It's real and I can tell you personally that I know it's physiological. Experts who's theories claiming to know what occurred inside my body while I suffered through my bouts aren't going to tell me what is or is not real.



Now I'm baiting you. See, there's a big difference.

[cdif911]

did someone just try to pass off wikipedia as a valid source....

[cdif911]

boo hoo i worked my way out of the ghetto, and now im making millions of dollars to play basketball...whaaaah!!

apologies to kpc, I was talking about this post when I meant ignorant comments - I forgot who said what - though I went back and read KPC and don't completel agree with him, he was respectful in giving his opinion... this one here is disrespectful to people with mental disorders and sadly a way I think a lot of people think of celebrities who have such disorders (though I realize Brick was trying to be funny)

[crownsy]

There will be no consensus in this thread.  This is a borderline "politics" discussion.

Some people believe this to be a "disease".
Others believe it to be a "disorder".

Some claim medication, which by all accounts relieves the symptoms, is beneficial at large.
Others believe that medication is over-prescribed, not absolutely necessary, and perpetuates the beliefs of the former.

Agree to disagree.  Please talk about the "NBA" or merge this to an off-topic forum.  I keep checking this thread thinking that there might be something about hoops in here.

Thanks

LOL. Brick, what in the name of the title of this thread gives you the idea that basketball will be talked about in it? 

Seriously though, you are right this conversation is heading down the wrong direction because it could become very political. Many people's general thoughts and ideas regarding this subject start first and foremost with the political ramifications of this disease.

I think part of the problem is in the name of the general disease. Depression is an emotion everyone feels. It is also a disease. Maybe it should be called Neuro-Transmitter Deficiency Disorder or something like that. It could prevent some of the misconceptions of the disease.

Dude, I won't be baited.  Even wikipedia says you're wrong though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_depression 

Go read it.

wait, were going to seriously use wiki as a vaild source.....hahahha

i had an amendment to a roman history article up there for 2 solid weeks one time about how my roommate was one of the first roman dictators.. good old erikus badasus, he was a fair and just ruler!

quoting an open source editable dictionary as fact for a serious medical issue= fail.

[Sweet17]

This is a disease. Get that straight. And it deals with the most delicate and unknown part of the human anatomy, the human brain. Every brain works differently. Every case is different. There are many different kinds of mental illness and many different drugs that are used. For some, there hasn't been a drug that works for them. It hasn't been invented yet

Oh please don't lecture people from ignorance. If every brain 'worked differently' then the very medications you advocate wouldn't have much effect now would they. <g> ****.

The problem with depression is that it unlike other diseases - it doesn't have a clearly defined etiology. That is to say it has mutiple causes. That's why calling it a disease is problematic - it has mutiple causes.

Much as the way a cough can be symptomatic of a huge variation of diseases and sickness - it's much the same with depression. It could be caused something very tangible like a brain tumor or it could be enviromental factors. It could be hormonal and enviromental like say post-partum depression and so on.

Personally I don't have a huge problem with giving people anti-depressants. However I do think the "other side" makes alot of valid points. One interesting issue with anti-depressant drugs is that they change the human brain FOREVER. Your altering the way the brain processes various neurochemicals and the brain adapts to these medications.

It can have some shocking results - like people falling out of love. Love of course is like a chemical addiction. Anti-depressants can actually break this cycle. Others contend (and I think this is another legitimate interesting argument) that depression is in fact natural.

It's the body response to a bad situation. Thus in SOME cases it's quite possible the medications are being overprescribed. (I don't see this as Delonte's problem). But do we want everyone to be happy irregardless of their actual real life situation? I don't think we do. And medicating everyone till such a state is problematic especially when we have vast, powerful, incredibly profitable corporations with a vested interested in doing so behind that push..

Lots of people have speculated (interestingly enough) that if anti-depressants had been popular back in the day most of what we consider the great works of art wouldn't exist. Many of the great composers and artists were profoundly depressed..

It's a similiar issue with ADD BTW - perhaps even worse. ADD has no clear etiology. Depression does have some medical causes we can point too in various cases.

But with ADD what we know is that SOME people don't hold their attention as well as others. Is this legitimately a medical failing or is it just a natural variation? Maybe evolutionarily speaking not be able to sit through a boring lecture had some value. Perhaps we are also to quick to medicate people into a placid state to "fix" a problem that we have yet to pin point a cause for..

Again it's particularly problematic when corprations with vested interests are behind much of the medicating..

Pete

[belgian c fan]

people who are really depressed are suffering alot. These medications help to te create a better emotional status so other therapies have a better chance of succeding. Is it difficult to find the right drug? only partial. i believe there's a succes ratio of 66/100. this can be improved if you make the right diagnosis, but this is not so easy.

on an other side, stahl thinks that the origine of depression might be situated in our genes. Stressfull events, like loosing familiemebers or a job or something, cause stress wich would influence key neurons in the limbic system, resulting that these neurons produce not enough BDNF (brain derived neurotrophic factor) wich has something to do with the correct functioning of dopaminerge, seretonerge and noradrenerge neurons.
But if you want a good read about it i recommend stahl essential psychofarmacology , chapter 12

[nickagneta]

Oh please don't lecture people from ignorance. If every brain 'worked differently' then the very medications you advocate wouldn't have much effect now would they. <g> ****.

Wow, Pete, is this even necessary!!!! You have a differing opinion, that's fine but considering where I have been and what I have been through with this disease the last place I speak from is a place of ignorance.

Actually considering that anti-depressants don't work all the time I think is proof that not all brains work the same. I have the very same diagnosis as very many people. I personally need to take four prescriptions in order to balance myself. Others I know, and I know many because I sit in on group therapy sessions that sometimes number as high as 50 people, use just one medicine. My mother has personally been through hundreds of medications and combinations trying to find the right combination to balance herself. She recently has.

AFTER 40 YEARS!!!

Also, please don't insult people who suffer by stating that the drugs make us happy or bring up the fact that great artists that suffered may not have made great art if they were on medications. Psychotropic drugs do not make one happy. God, how misinformed is that. They balance people so that people can have a normal range of emotions, a normal severity of emotions. They do not make people perpetually "happy". And did it ever occur to you that great artists may well have been able to strive for, reach and achieve even higher levels of art had they not suffered from mental illness.

You are right. People are supposed to get sad, even depressed. But those are normal emotions that occur at normal times. The disease of depression is so vastly different from the emotion. People need to understand that. You seem not to have a very firm grip on the subject. Consider them homonyms. Like bank and bank. Would you put your money in a river bank? Obviously not. So don't think that depression the disease and depression the emotion are anything alike.

For those that have an opinion of what Pete called "the other side", I need to ask and hear an answer about this question. Please help me. Why are you so opinionated about depression, psychotropic medicines, their causes and their effects? Why do you believe that depression isn't a disease or that psychotropics are bad? Really, why does it matter to you?

Here's my guess. Some of your answers will be politically driven. How sad is that.

[belgian c fan]

let me answer that question for you, it is because mental diseases are still a taboo. And why is that, because we can't understand it and because it has such a huge impact on the way people behave and most don't know how to handle this because it is so hard to do.

[nickagneta]

let me answer that question for you, it is because mental diseases are still a taboo. And why is that, because we can't understand it and because it has such a huge impact on the way people behave and most don't know how to handle this because it is so hard to do.

If I had the capability I'd give you 10 TP's because that is how good that answer is.

[Finkelskyhook]

Speaking of 40 years, how many diagnoses of ADD were there back then?  It is a "condition"  that every human being has.

Yesterday I was priviledged to participate in a class of third graders as what's called a "business partner".  My heart broke as the kids introduced themselves.  Half of the kids were barely functional.  Easily half of the kids in the class were on ritalin.  The scary part is that this isn't a "special needs" class.  It's not hard to pick the zombies out of a lineup.  What it is is profoundly sad.  I'm with them 6 more times this year.  I hope to have a positive impact on all of them.

Nick, check out how much the schools are getting paid to dispense meds to numb these innocent children.  Then tell me it isn't completely political as the NEA and the left continue in their quest to create as many wards of the state as possible.  Ritalin is simply a substitute for parenting.

Bi-polar?  I predict tri-polar as a new diagnosis within 10 years and quad-polar in another 10 as this twisted industry, the majority with no ethics or interest in healing anything, continue to overmedicate and manipulate the public.

There is schizophrenia in every generation of my family.  I've seen how they've made my cousin, a functional human being, a permanent institutional lab rat by prescribing so many meds for him on the outside that a completely stable and functional person would be [dang]ed near pressed to the limit to keep track of when and how to take them.

I don't doubt there are conditions out there. But these newly found "conditions" and "disorders" are just a way for a twisted industry to sustain itself and grow.

Nick, I hope you found a rare trustworthy person in this industry to help you.  Your brilliant posts reflect that you have.  I pray for the same thing for Delonte.  He seems like a strange egg. But a good kid.