Delonte West battling depression

[Scott]

We never know a whole person's story, nor should we.  Somethings are personal and do not need to be aired for the public.

I have known some people that deal with depression and understand that it is a very complicated matter.  My understanding is limited but I know that it can be deep rooted and beyond the simplicity of a mood swing.  Big thanks to Nick for opening up and providing us more information on the matter.   

My best wishes go to Delonte. 

[Roy Hobbs]

...in my opinion he could be on the court right now if he truly wanted to.

You're studying this at a graduate level, and you're willing to make assessments of somebody without having *any* facts? 

Maybe he was troubled by his thoughts and behavior lately, and decided that a high-pressure, highly-visible job like basketball wasn't the best thing for his mental outlook for a few days.  How on earth can you possibly say he could be playing "if he truly wanted to" without knowing the depth of his depression, or the other mood disorder that he admitted to, without conducting a case study?  That seems exceedingly irresponsible to me.

[kamakawiwaole]

While depression is a serious issue, I am very upset if I am the Cavaliers. I am a psychology major who is soon to study the subject at the masters level. Not only do I study it, but I have lived with the problem most of my life as well. There is no doubt, depression is debilitating, and can potentially be incapacitating. However, how severe is Delonte's depression? I do not have that answer in particular. But Delonte claims he has battled with the problem most of his life. So why is he taking a leave of absence now? It is fair to assume that his depression must have recently escalated to an almost incapacitating level. But, if he is not dealing with an a incapacitating level of depression I am furious if I am the Cavilers. Why? Because millions of Americans are dealing with depression. Not every person with depression is on serotonin reuptake inhibitors and receiving counseling. These people are carrying on with their their lives. Dolonte is not a special case and he should not be treated like a brave warrior. I am not unsympathetic towards Delonte, and I wish him the best, but these are just the facts.  

Without doubt, there is some scientific evidence for neurotransmitter imbalances which cause mental illness. But the fact is that personal experiences contribute about 50 - 60% of a persons depression. Depression is far from being a strictly genetic illness as some have articulately deemed it. 

Unfortunately, for people suffering from depression, medication is often not the answer. SSRI's often have bad side effects. The worst being that it does not actually correct your depression, it works to make a person feel detached and numb. No highs, no lows, to briefly sum up how a SSRI's works in people, you could say it strips your personality from you. SSRI's are one of the most heavily marketed drugs today. They are also one of the most heavily prescribed. Despite the fact that people suffering from depression are more likely to kill themselves when they initially start an anti-depressant regimen. The drug companies are interested in collecting maximum profits because depression has suddenly increased. The problem is, they are prescribing, marketing, and making huge amounts of money off these drugs without knowing too much about how they work. There is still so much to learn about depression.

I hope Delonte gets better. But clinical depression is hardly ever a disease that will completely free its grip from you. Some days it can get better and some days worse.

So in conclusion, the whole point of the words above was that it would be possible for Delonte to just "suck it up and play ball." That is, unless he was suffering from incapacitating clinical depression. I don't think anyone but Delonte knows what state he is at mentally. But there are a lot of myths about depression that get perpetuated. Unfortunately, many people think that when they hear the word depression the person is a sad tortured soul who cannot function. Or, they believe that depression is feeling "blue" because it rained on your birthday. These are both myths of the extreme regarding depression. There are many different levels of depression, and many people can be productive at the lower levels. Lets hope Delonte is okay, but in my opinion he could be on the court right now if he truly wanted to. Plus, vigorous exercise will relieve depression for a short while! Play ball Delonte!

wow i feel bad for anyone who has to get treatment from you in the future...

[nickagneta]

Just wanted to let people know that KungPoweChicken is about 100% correct in everything he has said. I have no problem with anything he said it is all pretty much fact. But he doesn't have all of Delonte's facts, which is dangerous.

However, the part he skipped over very quickly that needs to be addressed in every case of mental illness is it's severity, which, for the most part, not only do the psychiatrists and therapists treating a patient have virtually any idea how bad the severity is, often, neither does the patient. Just about every mentally ill patient feels that what they do, think and feel is the way everyone feels, thinks and does things. Self realization of just how bad you actually have this disease is difficult. Communicating how bad you are doing is even harder.

And he is right about the medication. The best way to live a normal life with this disease is through therapy, proper exercise, proper dieting, confrontation management, relaxation therapy, logical thinking that overcomes emotions reactions, knowing that you are what you do not what you feel, and taking the medication. Problem is the medication does often rip away everything that one feels inside and makes a person feel like someone he or she is not. Hence, some ridiculous number of patients on medication stop taking their medication until it's too late and they are now in an ever deepening and long period of mania or depression again.

This disease, like any other, affects people differently and comes in all sorts of severity. As KPC said, many, maybe not most but many, never get medicated and just work their way through it their whole lives. Many of these people turn to alcohol or drugs or other outlets who's behavior is commonplace in society and to some points accepted.

Example: Moody, mean guy you know goes to the bar every night, drinks some, but doesn't really get drunk. Other than that he doesn't go out much. He works, shops, lives like anyone else. Very acceptable in society. It could be just that guy's nature. It could also be someone with a less severe case of mental illness self medicating and living through it. It's hard to tell.

What I think I am responding to is that in a way KPC is right in that Delonte's severity of illness is important to know and that the Cavs should have been kept abreast of the situation. Perhaps they were. We don't know. Put if Delonte is at a point where he doesn't want to do something that brings joy to his life and is also physically good for him, he probably doesn't have a mild case and can't just "suck it up " and get on the court.

[LarBrd33]

Just wanted to let people know that KungPoweChicken is about 100% correct in everything he has said. I have no problem with anything he said it is all pretty much fact. But he doesn't have all of Delonte's facts, which is dangerous.

However, the part he skipped over very quickly that needs to be addressed in every case of mental illness is it's severity, which, for the most part, not only do the psychiatrists and therapists treating a patient have virtually any idea how bad the severity is, often, neither does the patient. Just about every mentally ill patient feels that what they do, think and feel is the way everyone feels, thinks and does things. Self realization of just how bad you actually have this disease is difficult. Communicating how bad you are doing is even harder.

And he is right about the medication. The best way to live a normal life with this disease is through therapy, proper exercise, proper dieting, confrontation management, relaxation therapy, logical thinking that overcomes emotions reactions, knowing that you are what you do not what you feel, and taking the medication. Problem is the medication does often rip away everything that one feels inside and makes a person feel like someone he or she is not. Hence, some ridiculous number of patients on medication stop taking their medication until it's too late and they are now in an ever deepening and long period of mania or depression again.

This disease, like any other, affects people differently and comes in all sorts of severity. As KPC said, many, maybe not most but many, never get medicated and just work their way through it their whole lives. Many of these people turn to alcohol or drugs or other outlets who's behavior is commonplace in society and to some points accepted.

Example: Moody, mean guy you know goes to the bar every night, drinks some, but doesn't really get drunk. Other than that he doesn't go out much. He works, shops, lives like anyone else. Very acceptable in society. It could be just that guy's nature. It could also be someone with a less severe case of mental illness self medicating and living through it. It's hard to tell.

What I think I am responding to is that in a way KPC is right in that Delonte's severity of illness is important to know and that the Cavs should have been kept abreast of the situation. Perhaps they were. We don't know. Put if Delonte is at a point where he doesn't want to do something that brings joy to his life and is also physically good for him, he probably doesn't have a mild case and can't just "suck it up " and get on the court.

Thanks nickagneta and kungpow for your sorta alternating views.   It helps a little, but I'm still sorta confused about the whole thing.  I wish I had a bigger grasp on it.  It is kinda relevant to something I'm dealing with right now.

One of my best friend's is a standup comedian.  Funny guy, obviously.  Gets along with everyone.  He's bipolar and has been battling ups and downs for years (obviously).  He's 28 now and he claims when he was 18 he sorta had a breakdown, had to be placed on medication and took a few years to get himself straight.  For the most part, he's been fine since.   He moved out to Seattle a few years ago (when I met him) and we were roommates for a while...   I've noticed he'll have days when he's happy and days when he's in a funk, but nothing major.   Usually it's related to relationships... things not going well with some girl he meets.  Sorta understandable.  We all go through that on some level.   He also blames the weather.  He says the winters here severely bum him out.  The rain, the clouds... it's Seattle.  He has trouble dealing with it (he claims), but I never really saw much of that.

This summer things were going great for him.  His job was going fine,  he was in a great relationship with a girl he was in love with and he was living with her, the weather had been amazing, his comedy gigs were going great (he was hosting his own show out here... getting pretty popular).  Everything seemed to be going fantastic.  And then for no reason whatsoever... without any explanation at all... he just got extremely depressed.   To the point where he decided to break up with his girlfriend for no reason, downed several bottles of liquor and apparently tried to off himself by swallowing a bunch of asprin (he was drunk... didn't make much sense).  I would have conversations with him trying to figure out why he was suddenly so sad and depressed and he really didn't have any explanation.  He isn't on medication anymore.  He stopped taking it years ago, because of the side effects.  He acknowledged that it was his bipolar disorder and that he couldn't control it.  He mentioned something about his lithium levels dropping and that it could send him into a tailspin.   His girlfriend stuck with him (even though they had technically "broken up"... for no reason) and one day she texted me that they were both at their apartment and he was having some kind of breakdown.  He was twitching uncontrollably, crying and asking her to hold his hands down, because he was afraid he was going to scratch his face off or something.   

I've known this guy for three years, use to live with him... and he never had anything like this happen.  He never had a breakdown like this.  He's not taking any recreational drugs or anything... things are going fairly well in his life... it wasn't the weather, it wasn't his relationship, it wasn't his work.  A couple days later he was fine for the most part, had decided to "get back together" with his girlfriend (they lived together so technically they never really broke up)... and was looking into getting back on medication.   He says it was uncontrollable and simply had to do with his "lithium levels dropping".   It's really tough to understand if you're not dealing with it.   I'll have lengthy conversations with him trying to figure out WHAT is the root of his sudden depression and there really is nothing in particular causing it.  He freely admits that it's nothing in particular.  I mean I try to cheer him up... but everything I say to him, he's aware of.  "Dude... what the hell is the problem?  You're doing great at comedy, you have great friends, your girlfriend is hot, your job is fine, your apartment is fine, it's been 80 degrees for the past three weeks... what the heck is wrong???"...    And all he can really say is, "it just happens man.  It's the bipolar disorder.  I've been dealing with it my entire life".   It's tough to make sense of it. 

He recently decided to move back home (east coast) for a while, get back on medication and see if he can straighten some things out internally.  He's leaving his apartment, job, girlfriend, comedy gig and friends behind.  Who knows if he'll be back any time soon.  I'm basically his best friend and there is really nothing I can say to the guy about it.  It seems pretty apparent to me that it's a chemical imbalance and it's entirely out of his control unless he's receiving proper treatment for it.   

Nickagneta... I also want to say that I'm happy I read your initial post.  I don't have bipolar disorder (as far as I know) so it's extremely tough for me to relate.  Even though this guy is a great friend of mine, it's hard not to see his recent behavior and think in the back of my mind "Good god, get over it... drama queen.  You're just looking for attention.  Suck it up and move on"...  When I read you saying that there is actually some science behind this and that it might actually be out of his control, it helps.  Because seriously it's very hard for me to put myself in his shoes and understand.  The way I was raised and the people I grew up with... my first instinct is to just say "Quit being a baby.  Man up!".    I dated a girl for three years who I was convinced was bipolar as well, but she refused to see a doctor for it.  It was the same thing with her.  She'd be emotionally nutty over nothing (and it wasn't PMS) and my instinct was to just say, "Good god, you're a psycho.  Shut the heck up"...  Really difficult to be sympathetic to people like this if you can't really relate to the behavior.  I approach most every situation calmly, rationally and logically... and it's sometimes hard for me to deal with emotionally driven people.

[Edgar]

man your friend is a funny man with problems of depresion
DW is a funny man with problems of depresion
I am a funny man....who has DW as my boy...oh oh I am in trouble.

Get well soon boy
we support U
and our heart is with you!!

[DingDongDel]

I disagree that KungPoweChicken is 100% correct. First, it is true that depression is not entirely genetic and personal experiences account for a lot. BUT, some people are more susceptible to developing depression after a certain personal experience; i.e., one experience may not affect one person but may cause another to become depressed if they are genetically disposed to depression. And in regards to SSRI's, only a extremely small percent experience any suicidal thoughts after starting them. Also, SSRI's are made to increase the amount of serotonin in the brain, and serotonin is a key neurotransmitter for good mood, so I don't see how it can make someone not feel any highs. However, it is true that for some people SSRI's do not work. But there are also some people for whom nothing works. Also, it is true that therapy, proper exercise and the like are key for maintaing a healthy life and not having another depressive episode. But for the short term, by and large, I believe that SSRI's are beneficial and help people respond better to treatment,

[thirstyboots18]

KungPoweChicken, My daughter suffers from depression. I don't care how educated you think you are on the subject, I feel anyone who is as judgmental as you appear to be without having full knowledge of the particular circumstances has chosen the wrong field.  I would hope that one of your professors would recognize that fact and steer you in another direction before you actually do harm to someone.   

[Redz]

Lots of good posts in this thread. 

Thanks for all the heart felt input.

Best wishes to Delonte.   

[Neurotic Guy]

Kung Pau -- I have worked with people with mood disorders probably since well before you were born.  Your comments worry me.  There is little good that comes from entertaining critical judgments based on minimal data. 
 
Certainly any treatment should begin with the least intrusive treatment producing positive outcomes. Cognitive strategies that incorporate mood awareness, implement strategies to increase positive thinking, influence feelings/ mood are current methods of choice for folks with adjustment challenges that influence mood. Knowing nothing about Delonte wouldn't it be mildly more respectful to presume that he has attempted lesser invasive strategies to periodic avail rather than assume he has neglected the idea that 'sucking it up' (or trying to adjust his own thinking) is an option?
Surely, attempting to increase positive interjects to influence mood have been a method of initial (and on-going) intervention, not one in which after years of suffering someone asks, "have you tried sucking it up"?  and he responds, "thanks, hadn't considered that approach". 

I don't know Delonte West from a hole in the wall and you are correct only in that mood is impacted by a wide variety of variables and contexts and range in intensity from mild to severe degrees.  We also know it is impacted by mental illness, sometimes of a severity level that precludes typical functioning without comprehensive supports. Also, we know that some mood disorders are cycical and require supports aligned and responsive to the variable nature of cyclical illness. 

Suffice it to say that we know nothing about the nature of Delonte's illness and therefore the only response worthy of such ignorance would be to hope that he receives support comensurate to his needs and that he receives it swiftly with positive results. 

[DingDongDel]

LarBrd33, I thought I could give some information that may help you out with what you're seeing with your friend. Specifically, episodes of depression and mania recur throughout the lifespan. So if someone hasn't had an episode in a while, it doesn't mean that they will not have another episode (in fact they will probably will). Also, the disorder is characterized by unpredictable mood swings, so they can occur no matter what is going on in someone's life. Anyways, check out http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/bipolar-disorder/complete-publication.shtml if you want  to learn more. That's probably the most reliable resource on disorders out there.

[zerophase]

i feel bad for the guy. hope west's problems get worked out.

[nickagneta]

LarBrd33, my heart goes out to your friend. I've been where he has been. Also, he is correct about the weather and seasons affecting him, a good percentage of patients with mental illness are affected by such things. I am one. It took me a lot of research through old medical records and remembrances of when bad episodes started for me to realize that I get depressed just about every spring and have since I was a teenager.

Since I am now medicated the effects are substantially subdued but they still there and I have to fight them until they disappear. Sometimes it's weeks. Sometimes longer. Much longer.

Off medication the results are scary. You have been witness to such things now and once someone is, mental illness becomes a real disease and not the "crazy" stigma and reputation that it has.

I lost a full decade of my life to this disease because when I first tried medication and therapy I didn't like the way it felt, quit both and allowed myself to self medicate and spiraled into oblivion. I never allowed myself to ever get as bad as my mother who has been committed on and off for years and years of her life. But I cost my family tens of thousands of dollars and our first house.

I have a wife who is the best person in the world who stood by me through it all. My sons did as well. I had a friend that has been my friend since we shared a crib together. With those people and my brother I got through it all. It took a lot of patience, understanding and love on their part. Today I am as normal as the next person and we are all reaping the rewards of my health.

The best you can do for him LarBird is support his decisions, but only the good ones and urge him to get and stick with proper help. Be his friend, listen, understand, let him know he's not alone. Ultimately his health is his responsibility and he will need to take the actions that make him better but if he knows he'll have friends through it all, it makes life easier.

I went to this outpatient program for weeks where they got me on the proper medication and I received constant therapy. It was for 6 hours a day and was a regimented(very important for bipolars), teaching, group and individual therapy combination that worked wonders. Especially helpful was the teaching of the science behind the disease and what to look for in regards to symptoms and actions caused by the symptoms.

Untreated this disease is a cyclical thing. You get depressed so you feel bad and tired, you sleep too much because you're tired and nothing gets done. You see nothing gets done and you feel useless. Because you feel useless you get more depressed so on and so on and you spiral into hopelessness that leads to suicidal thoughts.

Knowing what feelings to look for and what behavioral patterns to be aware of makes all the difference in the world in heading off deep depressions.

As a follow up to what I said about KungPoweChicken's comment, he is right but in more of a general sense about most things. Psychotropic drugs are the most over-prescribed, expensive drugs out there. Depression isn't just chemically induced but is also based on experiences. And suicide while first starting and while on these drugs are common. He is 100% right about these general things.

But he is 100% wrong to make decisions about specific cases without knowledge of those cases. As I said, the fact that Delonte is pulling away from something he loves is pretty good proof to me that he has a severe case oncoming or in full effect.

If anyone else out there wants to discuss anything further, PM me. I know that talking isn't the easiest thing to do and to do so publicly is even more difficult. Privately might be easier for some. I am a pretty open guy that has seen it and experienced it all when it comes to mental illness being a child of the disease(my mom and others) and living it myself. If you want to talk, I'm here if you have any questions or feel there is nowhere else to turn.

[BrickJames]

boo hoo i worked my way out of the ghetto, and now im making millions of dollars to play basketball...whaaaah!!

[Roy Hobbs]

boo hoo i worked my way out of the ghetto, and now im making millions of dollars to play basketball...whaaaah!!

Thanks for the well-reasoned and informed post.