Author Topic: Will the real Tony Allen please stand up?  (Read 6922 times)

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Re: Will the real Tony Allen please stand up?
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2008, 04:57:11 PM »

Offline Steve Weinman

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Tony allen is a good player. Before his show off dunk two seasons ago he was putting up 20 points per game with ease. He can score and play defense. If he can cutdown on mental mistakes(which is lessen so far) he will be a really good 6th man.



I'll agree, Triboy, that TA has plenty of *potential.*  But I'm with Chris in the idea that I'll believe that he's truly cut down on the mental errors and the out-of-control play when I see it in games that count - and when it happens, I'll be thrilled to know that my skepticism about him was incorrect.  Rooting for our beloved team means a whole lot more to me than being 'right.'  I'm just still a bit worried about him.  That said, his preseason has been encouraging so far, and I'm hoping he can finally put it all together this year.

I would be a bit wary of the bolded comment above, Triboy.  In 161 career games prior to the injury, Allen put up efforts of 20 points or more exactly 10 times, and eight of those came in December 2006-January 2007, when, as Chris notes, he was given free reign to go nuts offensively on an awful team that was without Paul PIerce for most of those games.  So I'm not sure I'd say "with ease," though I do agree with your premise that the guy can be a scoring threat.

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Re: Will the real Tony Allen please stand up?
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2008, 05:12:38 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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i did see a TA layup on a 2 on 1 breakaway. i though he was gonna slam it home but he didn't, he's looking really good so far. Also: TA is better than james posey, and you'll all see that.

Re: Will the real Tony Allen please stand up?
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2008, 05:13:51 PM »

Offline youcanthandlethetruth113

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His mental mistakes haunt me and I will forever call him "Turnover Tony".
"Perk is not an alley-oop guy" - Tommy Heinson - Feb 27th 2008 vs. Cleveland

Re: Will the real Tony Allen please stand up?
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2008, 05:15:51 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Before his show off dunk two seasons ago he was putting up 20 points per game with ease.

On one of the worst teams in Celtics history...when he was given the green light, 40 minutes per game, and not being asked to play within an offensive system.
So on a better team in shorter minutes he will put up ... what, 12 ppg? I'll take that! Please note that the offensive system then is the same as it is now -- free flowing. We just happen to have better execution these days.
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Re: Will the real Tony Allen please stand up?
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2008, 05:21:33 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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i still don't think he's as athletic as he once was.  Remember that kid as a rookie?  He made Bill Walker look like Gabe Pruitt.

Once a game there was one sick jump from out of nowhere offensive rebound dunk.  The guy was reckless and jumped through the roof. I remember reading Bill Simmons saying something along the lines of "Tony Allen is the frontrunner to suffer some horrific injury" jokingly in reference to his crazy attacks on the rim.  Sad that Allen ended up having a pretty bad injury on a fluke incident. 

He seems like he's getting more comfortable.  His handles seem improved.  He's still inconsistent, but looks better than last season.  I don't think he's at the level he was at before his injury, though.   

Re: Will the real Tony Allen please stand up?
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2008, 07:21:16 PM »

Offline Triboy16

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you guys are not thinking if you think tony was given the green light, scored 20 ppg and it was all of his fault they lost that many games. It was a pure rookie team don't forget. Scoring 20 pg's is not fun in the park either and even if you let anyone in the league try by giving them the green light they couldn't do it.

I don't think its fair tony is being thought of a guy who makes mistakes on the court everytime he is on. People are confusing his mistakes with doing the dumb show off dunk and fouling chauncy billups last year in the crucial last seconds with actual nimrod mistakes like missing a defensive assignment or play(letting your man get easy buckets), missing easy layups, setting picks etc. And those are things we rarely see tony make mistakes on. Need to forget about those two glamour mistakes he made

Re: Will the real Tony Allen please stand up?
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2008, 07:33:38 PM »

Offline greg683x

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Quote
TA is better than james posey, and you'll all see that.

TA may be able to beat James Posey in a game of 1 on 1.

However, you can't teach a player to be almost 5 inches taller, and you cant teach someone the versatility to effectively defend 3 different positions with that height that they dont have.

Im sure Tony is more than capable of making up the 7.4 points James put up last year, but seriously, thats at the bottom of the list when it comes to things that need to replaced after Poseys departure.
Greg

Re: Will the real Tony Allen please stand up?
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2008, 07:35:23 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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TA can defend 3 different positions effectively, and being taller doesn't make your more skilled or better.

Re: Will the real Tony Allen please stand up?
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2008, 09:41:16 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Tony allen is a good player. Before his show off dunk two seasons ago he was putting up 20 points per game with ease. He can score and play defense. If he can cutdown on mental mistakes(which is lessen so far) he will be a really good 6th man.



On one of the worst teams in Celtics history...when he was given the green light, 40 minutes per game, and not being asked to play within an offensive system.

This is the problem with Allen, and how I will feel about him until he proves me wrong.  He is a superstar on a bad team, who simply not able to keep his focus when asked to play a smaller role on a good team. 

He really is not much different a player this year than he was last year...he just has been given the keys to the car in the preseason, while the Big 3 rest up.  I just have no confidence that he won't zone out when they tell him to move into the backseat again.

I honestly think the best thing this team can do is play him a ton early in the season, and let him do his "thing".  Then see if they can get a team to give up someone who will fit in better with their system for the rest of the season.

Wouldn't a deal of the Tony Allen from last night, and Scal for Nick Collison make a ton of sense for both teams?



While I respect your posts, I find your logic to be illogical. Paul Pierce was on that team. Ray Allen oversaw back to back 35 and 31 win seasons. KG got his great numbers on back to back 32 and 33 win teams before last season. Basketball was, is, and always will be a team game. Good talent can be on bad teams and still be good talent.

Re: Will the real Tony Allen please stand up?
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2008, 10:00:43 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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TA can defend 3 different positions effectively, and being taller doesn't make your more skilled or better.

Basketball, is, and always will be a tall man's game.
What TA can't replace is Posey's height and versatility to defend bigger players.
He also will never shoot the 3 ball as well as Posey and has yet to prove that he will be as clutch as Posey.

That being said, I think that it is expecting too much for TA to make up for Posey's departure.
TA can only be TA.  If he can cut down on dumb turnovers, and be the 'good' TA he will be an asset for this team in the upcoming season.
Right now, count me as in the skeptic's boat though.

I've seen too many teases from this guy to believe so easily after just a few good preseason showings.

Re: Will the real Tony Allen please stand up?
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2008, 10:06:21 PM »

Offline zerophase

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yep. he needs to be taller if he wants to be effective at the 3. posey could defend the 4 if he really needed to, TA can not.

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Re: Will the real Tony Allen please stand up?
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2008, 10:50:32 PM »

Offline Chris

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Tony allen is a good player. Before his show off dunk two seasons ago he was putting up 20 points per game with ease. He can score and play defense. If he can cutdown on mental mistakes(which is lessen so far) he will be a really good 6th man.



On one of the worst teams in Celtics history...when he was given the green light, 40 minutes per game, and not being asked to play within an offensive system.

This is the problem with Allen, and how I will feel about him until he proves me wrong.  He is a superstar on a bad team, who simply not able to keep his focus when asked to play a smaller role on a good team. 

He really is not much different a player this year than he was last year...he just has been given the keys to the car in the preseason, while the Big 3 rest up.  I just have no confidence that he won't zone out when they tell him to move into the backseat again.

I honestly think the best thing this team can do is play him a ton early in the season, and let him do his "thing".  Then see if they can get a team to give up someone who will fit in better with their system for the rest of the season.

Wouldn't a deal of the Tony Allen from last night, and Scal for Nick Collison make a ton of sense for both teams?



While I respect your posts, I find your logic to be illogical. Paul Pierce was on that team. Ray Allen oversaw back to back 35 and 31 win seasons. KG got his great numbers on back to back 32 and 33 win teams before last season. Basketball was, is, and always will be a team game. Good talent can be on bad teams and still be good talent.

Sorry, I wasn't making my point clear.  I did not mean to infer that Allen is not a good player, because he only played well when the team was playing badly.  The point I have been trying to make is that when Allen played so well in 2006-2007, they were a much less talented team, and were therefore asking Tony Allen to play a much different role.  They were asking him to be a starter who was a primary scoring option, who had the ball in his hand a large percentage of the time.  On this team, however, there is a ton of offensive talent around him.  If he wants to be a 6th man, especially come playoff time, he is going to have to learn to be effective without the ball in his hands.  He is going to need to show that he can consistently keep his head in his game, and help his team out in different ways. 

In the past Tony has shown that coming off the bench, he does not play as well as if he starts.  He also has shown that when he is not a major part of the offense, at times he loses concentration on defense, and tries to do too much when he finally does get the ball.  These are the things that he is going to need to show he has grown out of.

If he hasn't grown out of them, he can still help this team, but he simply will not be as valuable as he could be, because he won't be able to be counted on game in and out.

Re: Will the real Tony Allen please stand up?
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2008, 11:00:08 PM »

Offline pizzle214

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If TA plays like he did last night, im convinced he can take the place of posey. He just went off last night. I had my doubts about a good six man when posey left but TA is making a good bid at the spot. He is very athletic and has potential to put up huge numbers. I like the TA of this year last year not so much. I hope he keeps playing like he is, he'll be a huge part to the C's.

Re: Will the real Tony Allen please stand up?
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2008, 11:02:22 PM »

Offline Chris

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Oh, I should add that I LOVED how TA played in the first half tonight.  He played completely within himself, and kept his focus while playing with some semblance of a normal rotation (I am going to pretend the second half didn't happen).  If he can put a few more games together like that, then I will be jumping on the bandwagon.

(yes, you read that right, I think tonights performance was much more encouraging then his 33 points last night)

Re: Will the real Tony Allen please stand up?
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2008, 08:54:46 AM »

Offline zerophase

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ta's a good player but he just needs to become more consistent like all young players.

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