David Thorpe Calls Bill Russell Overrated on ESPN Chat

[footey]

Check this out:

"Rob (Baltimore): Most overrated player in the history of the game: Wilt?

 David Thorpe: Russell, for those who think he was the single best player ever. "

Sorry, but while Bill Russell did not post off the chart statistics, he was primarily responsible for the Celtics winning 11 championships in 13 years. While there can be legitimate debate as to whether he was the greatest ever (I vote yes, on the basis that he was the MVP of most of those 11 championship teams), to trade that down to saying he could be called the most overrated player is, very frankly, obnoxious and disrespectful. Shame on you, Mr. Thorpe. Get over your LA bias (guy grew up a Laker fan, what do you expect??)

[soap07]

Sorry, but while Bill Russell did not post off the chart statistics, he was primarily responsible for the Celtics winning 11 championships in 13 years. While there can be legitimate debate as to whether he was the greatest ever (I vote yes, on the basis that he was the MVP of most of those 11 championship teams), to trade that down to saying he could be called the most overrated player is, very frankly, obnoxious and disrespectful. Shame on you, Mr. Thorpe. Get over your LA bias (guy grew up a Laker fan, what do you expect??)






It's only a fair statement if he took a little time to back it up, which he didn't. I understand the opinion, but you can't just make a blanket statement like that without any evidence.


His chats are nothing short of ridiculous. He gives one-liners that are useless in substance.

[liam]

Did he have MJ as the second most overrated?

[Hoops]

When that question came up during Thorpe's chat, I knew his answer would find it's way to Celticsblog. I'm as passionate as any C's fan around and have been for over 20 years. But I've got Thorpe's back on this one. Sure, Russell ought to be considered the "greatest winner" or "most successful" player in history. You can more or less prove this objectively based on championship rings. But that's not what Thorpe was talking about.

Even though the term "best player ever" is inherently subjective, it's hard to find any rational measure by which Bill Russell comes out as the "best player ever." So, as Thorpe points out, Russell is indeed overrated for those who think he is the single best player ever. Even if you factor in the differences in historical eras, I just don't think anyone (except maybe the most heavily addicted green Kool-Aid drinkers in Beantown) would select Bill Russell from a gym full of the NBA's greatest and say "You, Russell, I pick you first because you're the best player here." No way. It's not worth making a complete list, but at least Jordan, Bird and Magic would get selected before Russell. Every time.

[JR Giddens]

Thorpedo just likes to be an ass sometimes. He answers my questions all the time. But he's just saying That Bill Russel wouldn't be as good if had to defend centers like Hakeem, kareem, Shaq, and Ewing which is prolly true. Bill Russel wouldn't tower over 90s centers like he did in the 60s.

He don't like the Lakers so Thorpedo is good in my book!

[Redz]

Anyone can be overrated.  It's all in the eye of the beholder.  If you happen to think that Van Gogh is an overrated painter, then he is overrated to you - since you are the one doing the rating.

If he thinks the general opinion of Russell is higher than his own, then Russell is indeed overrated - to him.

I guess I'm getting tired of hearing the greats aren't so great. 

Subjectivity...

[12417]

Even though the term "best player ever" is inherently subjective, it's hard to find any rational measure by which Bill Russell comes out as the "best player ever." So, as Thorpe points out, Russell is indeed overrated for those who think he is the single best player ever. Even if you factor in the differences in historical eras, I just don't think anyone (except maybe the most heavily addicted green Kool-Aid drinkers in Beantown) would select Bill Russell from a gym full of the NBA's greatest and say "You, Russell, I pick you first because you're the best player here." No way. It's not worth making a complete list, but at least Jordan, Bird and Magic would get selected before Russell. Every time.

I think a rational measure would be wins, losses and Championships. Red's rolling over in his grave. No player has dominated the game from the defensive end before or since like Bill Russell. The 07-08 Championship Celtics were based on defense 1st. If you had the top 50 players of all-time in a gym and picked sides for a scrimmage I think it would be perfectly rationale to pick Bill Russell #1. Defense has always been underrated. Whenever people discuss the GOAT they always make picks based on offense. Bill Russell the greatest winner in all of team sports and he's being dissed on a blog dedicated to the team for which he played. Unbelievable.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/51928-bill-russell-the-greatest-player-of-all-time

[Atzar]

Thorpedo just likes to be an ass sometimes. He answers my questions all the time. But he's just saying That Bill Russel wouldn't be as good if had to defend centers like Hakeem, kareem, Shaq, and Ewing which is prolly true.

I think Wilt Chamberlain can rank with those guys in terms of talent.  I don't have the stats in front of me to back it up, but I remember hearing multiple times that Russell habitually dominated Wilt.

It's hard to compare centers to small forwards or point guards.  Since they don't - and couldn't - play against each other directly, there's no way to really say that Russell is better than Jordan or vice versa.  But I have no problem in saying that Russell is the best center of all time.  Take that for what it's worth.

[fairweatherfan06]

Ironic HE would call anyone overrated.  I can't believe anyone employs him as sportswriter let alone ESPN.  1) I think Bill Russell is the most underrated ever or close to. I think he's the greatest C/PF ever.

2) This may be blasphemy on a Celtics board but I've always maintained that Magic was the greatest. Only player that could play all 5 positions and be dominant against a high level of competition (See the 30 he dropped on Moses Malone in the finals versus the Sixers).

[PerkinsERA43]

Thorpedo just likes to be an ass sometimes. He answers my questions all the time. But he's just saying That Bill Russel wouldn't be as good if had to defend centers like Hakeem, kareem, Shaq, and Ewing which is prolly true.

I think Wilt Chamberlain can rank with those guys in terms of talent.  I don't have the stats in front of me to back it up, but I remember hearing multiple times that Russell habitually dominated Wilt.

It's hard to compare centers to small forwards or point guards.  Since they don't - and couldn't - play against each other directly, there's no way to really say that Russell is better than Jordan or vice versa.  But I have no problem in saying that Russell is the best center of all time.  Take that for what it's worth.

Russell would use his tremendous athletic ability and great work ethic to outplay Wilt. He was faster than Wilt, and so what he would do is sprint down the floor on offense, and get an easy dunk. Then, he would sprint back on defense, and keep Wilt from getting good position on the blocks. Typically, Russell would block 2 or 3 of Wilt's shots every game. I didn't see this personally, but I've read books and seen film. Russell may not have been the most talented player, or even center, of all time, but in my book he ranks as the second best player ever. Only Jordan compares. Bill Russell was a winner, and he would be today as well. He was crazy athletic, had excellent timing on defense, a great understanding of angles and rates on the court, and was always well conditioned. That's enough to make you dominant in any league, in any time period.

[Atzar]

I just looked the Bill Russell vs. Wilt Chamberlain battle up.  Wilt actually beat Bill pretty handily statistically in every category except one:  wins. 

[ManUp]

Bill Russel was the most dominant player in NBA history. He's probably the most dominant figure in sports History. With that said he's definitely being overrated when people say he was the best to play the game.

[jbp126]

I think it has been well established on this blog that Thorpe gives very little time and thought into his chats and basically "mails them in". I know I have complained about poor analysis on his part in the context of his chats. He is a decent talent scout, but he has a history of being anti-Celtics.

[ManUp]

I think it has been well established on this blog that Thorpe gives very little time and thought into his chats and basically "mails them in". I know I have complained about poor analysis on his part in the context of his chats. He is a decent talent scout, but he has a history of being anti-Celtics.

Yup. He's notorious for his one liners in chats. I don't even know what's the point of him having a chat session on Espn. Who really cares about him or what he has to say?

[TerreHaute]

Hoops is probably right. Russell would not be picked first in that open gym, just as he was not picked first in his own class coming out of college. But Hoops would learn the hard way, as everyone else did, that his team would lose to Russell's team.