Author Topic: Free Darko (well actually, trade him to the Cs)  (Read 12419 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Free Darko (well actually, trade him to the Cs)
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2008, 09:34:47 PM »

Offline ssspence

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6375
  • Tommy Points: 403
I love the trade from Boston's point of view, but don't see it from Memphis' point of view.

They give up a guy with potential for salary match filler (Scal) and three projects.  BBD would probably see some playing time for Memphis, but Giddens and Pruitt will be way back in the depth chart.  Pruitt in particular doesn't make much sense.  Memphis already has: Conley, Crittendon, Lowry and Mayo.... no room for Pruitt.

So, the deal would need to be sweetened for Memphis to bite: swapping Powe for BBD might do the trick, but as a Boston fan I would hate to see Powe and his hustle be replaced with Darko and his moody underachieving. 

For that matter, if we want a moody underachiever, we could just sign David Harrison.

The Harrison bit is of course silly, Darko is an excellent defensive presense worth considering if he can be had for ltd pieces in a finacially motivated transaction.

But i agree that Pruitt (being perhaps the top talent for MEMs side) is an odd fit if he's not a 2. I think Baby makes sense. They're ltd at the 2 and 3, so Giddens is worth a punt. Scal saves them $$$, period, and that is a major factor for the Griz.

I think Darko is an excellent fit. Can Memphis be enticed? Not sure...


Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: Free Darko (well actually, trade him to the Cs)
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2008, 09:40:28 PM »

Offline Edgar

  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24646
  • Tommy Points: 445
  • No contaban con mi astucia !!!
I love the trade from Boston's point of view, but don't see it from Memphis' point of view.

They give up a guy with potential for salary match filler (Scal) and three projects.  BBD would probably see some playing time for Memphis, but Giddens and Pruitt will be way back in the depth chart.  Pruitt in particular doesn't make much sense.  Memphis already has: Conley, Crittendon, Lowry and Mayo.... no room for Pruitt.

So, the deal would need to be sweetened for Memphis to bite: swapping Powe for BBD might do the trick, but as a Boston fan I would hate to see Powe and his hustle be replaced with Darko and his moody underachieving. 

For that matter, if we want a moody underachiever, we could just sign David Harrison.

The Harrison bit is of course silly, Darko is an excellent defensive presense worth considering if he can be had for ltd pieces in a finacially motivated transaction.

But i agree that Pruitt (being perhaps the top talent for MEMs side) is an odd fit if he's not a 2. I think Baby makes sense. They're ltd at the 2 and 3, so Giddens is worth a punt. Scal saves them $$$, period, and that is a major factor for the Griz.

I think Darko is an excellent fit. Can Memphis be enticed? Not sure...



well with mark playing the way hes doung
theres no much for darko there.

btw is incredible how bad defense GS and Memphis plays
Once a CrotorNat always a CROTORNAT  2 times CB draft Champion 2009-2012

Nice to be back!

Re: Free Darko (well actually, trade him to the Cs)
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2008, 09:47:39 PM »

Offline ssspence

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6375
  • Tommy Points: 403
I love the trade from Boston's point of view, but don't see it from Memphis' point of view.

They give up a guy with potential for salary match filler (Scal) and three projects.  BBD would probably see some playing time for Memphis, but Giddens and Pruitt will be way back in the depth chart.  Pruitt in particular doesn't make much sense.  Memphis already has: Conley, Crittendon, Lowry and Mayo.... no room for Pruitt.

So, the deal would need to be sweetened for Memphis to bite: swapping Powe for BBD might do the trick, but as a Boston fan I would hate to see Powe and his hustle be replaced with Darko and his moody underachieving. 

For that matter, if we want a moody underachiever, we could just sign David Harrison.

The Harrison bit is of course silly, Darko is an excellent defensive presense worth considering if he can be had for ltd pieces in a finacially motivated transaction.

But i agree that Pruitt (being perhaps the top talent for MEMs side) is an odd fit if he's not a 2. I think Baby makes sense. They're ltd at the 2 and 3, so Giddens is worth a punt. Scal saves them $$$, period, and that is a major factor for the Griz.

I think Darko is an excellent fit. Can Memphis be enticed? Not sure...



well with mark playing the way hes doung
theres no much for darko there.

btw is incredible how bad defense GS and Memphis plays

exactly. think they want to pay darko 7 mil to back gasol up? i don't either. a trade for expiring youngsters and a 3.2mil deal next year saves them a ton.


Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: Free Darko (well actually, trade him to the Cs)
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2008, 11:32:45 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9931
  • Tommy Points: 777
I love the trade from Boston's point of view, but don't see it from Memphis' point of view.

They give up a guy with potential for salary match filler (Scal) and three projects.  BBD would probably see some playing time for Memphis, but Giddens and Pruitt will be way back in the depth chart.  Pruitt in particular doesn't make much sense.  Memphis already has: Conley, Crittendon, Lowry and Mayo.... no room for Pruitt.

So, the deal would need to be sweetened for Memphis to bite: swapping Powe for BBD might do the trick, but as a Boston fan I would hate to see Powe and his hustle be replaced with Darko and his moody underachieving. 

For that matter, if we want a moody underachiever, we could just sign David Harrison.

The Harrison bit is of course silly, Darko is an excellent defensive presense worth considering if he can be had for ltd pieces in a finacially motivated transaction.

But i agree that Pruitt (being perhaps the top talent for MEMs side) is an odd fit if he's not a 2. I think Baby makes sense. They're ltd at the 2 and 3, so Giddens is worth a punt. Scal saves them $$$, period, and that is a major factor for the Griz.

I think Darko is an excellent fit. Can Memphis be enticed? Not sure...



well with mark playing the way hes doung
theres no much for darko there.

btw is incredible how bad defense GS and Memphis plays

exactly. think they want to pay darko 7 mil to back gasol up? i don't either. a trade for expiring youngsters and a 3.2mil deal next year saves them a ton.



Why would they want to pay scal? BBD could contribute, but they are getting 2nd round talent in JR and Pruitt. There may not be any teams that think Giddens is worth his contract as a first round pick, and I'm sure their d-league affiliate can find cheaper guys. Pruitt has yet to show anything in the NBA and won't see the court in Memphis with more talented young guards already there.

The OP should mention who memphis cuts.

I'm not sure either team benefits from this trade. Can Darko learn our defensive system quickly enough to contribute more than BBD? If they want to move Darko, they can probably find other teams.

On a side not, the way that M Gasol is playing is making the P Gasol trade look considerably better. Have there ever been brothers who both won rookie of the year? For the same team?

Re: Free Darko (well actually, trade him to the Cs)
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2008, 12:50:39 AM »

Offline crownsy

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8469
  • Tommy Points: 157
Most rational fans would definitely do that, but what would Memphis gain out of it?

three talented young players (two of whom are wing players, one of whom is a four: they need both) and a savings of about $3.75MM. yes, they'll need to cut someone worthless to make it work (quintin ross), but that's money already spent, half covered by the league. here's the question: who is going to give them a meaningful pick or better players for darko?

Pruitt, Baby, Giddens and Scal all suck. 

Nuff said.

pruitt has played well in all his limited NBA minutes and giddeons has yet to set foot in the NBA. dont you think those are snap judgments?
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Free Darko (well actually, trade him to the Cs)
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2008, 01:32:20 AM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48120
  • Tommy Points: 8794
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
Darko was 14th in the NBA last season in blocks per game despite playing only 23.8 minutes a night. Evened out for minutes and he's 7th in the league.

He's been a top shot blocker everywhere he's been. When he was in Orlando he blocked more shots per minute (by a wide margin) than Dwight Howard. Darko is a top shot blocker.
There's a reason why Darko only played 23 MPG or so over the last 2 years and came in 14th in the league in BPG both year. That reason is that he isn't good enough to earn more minutes per game hence being unable to increase his BPG numbers. If his other skills make him a liability to be on the floor for more than 23 or so MPG, can you really make an argument that he would be one of the best shot blockers in the league if he got just as many MPG as the guys who are amongst the best in the game because of their numbers? For me, I don't think so.

Re: Free Darko (well actually, trade him to the Cs)
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2008, 08:16:00 AM »

Offline moiso

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7640
  • Tommy Points: 441
Darko would be ok as a shot blocking specialist for half of that $. He's not a $7million dollar player.

Re: Free Darko (well actually, trade him to the Cs)
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2008, 08:41:21 AM »

Offline ssspence

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6375
  • Tommy Points: 403
Darko would be ok as a shot blocking specialist for half of that $. He's not a $7million dollar player.

you may very well be right. but the options in trading for effective size are pretty limited. it doesn't look like mcdyess is coming here. i do wish we'd given chris andersen a go. what other options are there? as i've mentioned before, i think it would be worth trading for sean williams. low risk, and an excellent chance he cleans up his act and flourishes next to KG and coached by cliff ray. if you look at last years stats, he too in ltd (and yes inconsistent) minutes was an excellent shotblocker.

Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: Free Darko (well actually, trade him to the Cs)
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2008, 11:00:45 AM »

Online Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 47136
  • Tommy Points: 2401
Darko was 14th in the NBA last season in blocks per game despite playing only 23.8 minutes a night. Evened out for minutes and he's 7th in the league.

He's been a top shot blocker everywhere he's been. When he was in Orlando he blocked more shots per minute (by a wide margin) than Dwight Howard. Darko is a top shot blocker.
There's a reason why Darko only played 23 MPG or so over the last 2 years and came in 14th in the league in BPG both year. That reason is that he isn't good enough to earn more minutes per game hence being unable to increase his BPG numbers. If his other skills make him a liability to be on the floor for more than 23 or so MPG, can you really make an argument that he would be one of the best shot blockers in the league if he got just as many MPG as the guys who are amongst the best in the game because of their numbers? For me, I don't think so.
In 23 minutes a game he's one of the best shot blockers in the league. Just like Alonzo Mourning has been in Miami and like Diop is for Dallas. He was 14th in the NBA in blocks per game while playing those minutes.

In Orlando Dwight blocked 156 shots, Darko blocked 140. Dwight played more 50% more minutes than Darko played. He still almost matched Dwight Howard and in far less minutes, no matter how you want to slice it, Darko is an excellent shot blocker.

Re: Free Darko (well actually, trade him to the Cs)
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2008, 11:05:26 AM »

Offline celticmaestro

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4558
  • Tommy Points: 81
  • "Love is the soul of a true Irishman"
Sorry, but even after the Gasol trade I don't think Chris Wallace would fall for this.

Anyone feel that, with the emergence of Marc Gasol, that it wasn't such a bad deal for Memphis in the end?

Re: Free Darko (well actually, trade him to the Cs)
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2008, 11:18:43 AM »

Online Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 47136
  • Tommy Points: 2401
Sorry, but even after the Gasol trade I don't think Chris Wallace would fall for this.

Anyone feel that, with the emergence of Marc Gasol, that it wasn't such a bad deal for Memphis in the end?
Yes, it's a good deal for Memphis. The Darko experiment has failed. Losing his contract and lowering their cap in the process is a big plus for Memphis .... even if they have no use for the players heading their way, the cap savings would be worth it.

Just because it's a good deal for them doens't mean it's the best deal they could get. I'd like to think the Grizzlies could get an expiring contract or some player(s) of value to them, maybe even a throw in low draft pick.

I wouldn't do it if I were Danny though. Darko is paid too much. If Perkins wasn't here then yes I would, but he is so there's no need. That money is better spent elsewhere.

Re: Free Darko (well actually, trade him to the Cs)
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2008, 11:36:22 AM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48120
  • Tommy Points: 8794
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
Darko was 14th in the NBA last season in blocks per game despite playing only 23.8 minutes a night. Evened out for minutes and he's 7th in the league.

He's been a top shot blocker everywhere he's been. When he was in Orlando he blocked more shots per minute (by a wide margin) than Dwight Howard. Darko is a top shot blocker.
There's a reason why Darko only played 23 MPG or so over the last 2 years and came in 14th in the league in BPG both year. That reason is that he isn't good enough to earn more minutes per game hence being unable to increase his BPG numbers. If his other skills make him a liability to be on the floor for more than 23 or so MPG, can you really make an argument that he would be one of the best shot blockers in the league if he got just as many MPG as the guys who are amongst the best in the game because of their numbers? For me, I don't think so.
In 23 minutes a game he's one of the best shot blockers in the league. Just like Alonzo Mourning has been in Miami and like Diop is for Dallas. He was 14th in the NBA in blocks per game while playing those minutes.

In Orlando Dwight blocked 156 shots, Darko blocked 140. Dwight played more 50% more minutes than Darko played. He still almost matched Dwight Howard and in far less minutes, no matter how you want to slice it, Darko is an excellent shot blocker.
He might be very good at blocking shots but the original statement wasthat he was one of the best shot blockers in the league. When I think best in the league I don't think 14th. I think top 5 maybe, top 10. What I don't think of is a guy who comes in top 8 in blocks per minute.

If I did look at things that way then I would need to consider J. R. Smith in Denver one of the best scorers in the league or Joel Pryzbilla and Nick Collison two of the best rebounders in the league or Anthony Carter one of the best passers in the league because they are all top 10 in those per minute categories.

I'm not arguing that the boy can't block shots. He can. He's just not one of the best in the league at it.

Re: Free Darko (well actually, trade him to the Cs)
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2008, 11:59:55 AM »

Online Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 47136
  • Tommy Points: 2401
Darko was 14th in the NBA last season in blocks per game despite playing only 23.8 minutes a night. Evened out for minutes and he's 7th in the league.

He's been a top shot blocker everywhere he's been. When he was in Orlando he blocked more shots per minute (by a wide margin) than Dwight Howard. Darko is a top shot blocker.
There's a reason why Darko only played 23 MPG or so over the last 2 years and came in 14th in the league in BPG both year. That reason is that he isn't good enough to earn more minutes per game hence being unable to increase his BPG numbers. If his other skills make him a liability to be on the floor for more than 23 or so MPG, can you really make an argument that he would be one of the best shot blockers in the league if he got just as many MPG as the guys who are amongst the best in the game because of their numbers? For me, I don't think so.
In 23 minutes a game he's one of the best shot blockers in the league. Just like Alonzo Mourning has been in Miami and like Diop is for Dallas. He was 14th in the NBA in blocks per game while playing those minutes.

In Orlando Dwight blocked 156 shots, Darko blocked 140. Dwight played more 50% more minutes than Darko played. He still almost matched Dwight Howard and in far less minutes, no matter how you want to slice it, Darko is an excellent shot blocker.
He might be very good at blocking shots but the original statement wasthat he was one of the best shot blockers in the league. When I think best in the league I don't think 14th. I think top 5 maybe, top 10. What I don't think of is a guy who comes in top 8 in blocks per minute.

If I did look at things that way then I would need to consider J. R. Smith in Denver one of the best scorers in the league or Joel Pryzbilla and Nick Collison two of the best rebounders in the league or Anthony Carter one of the best passers in the league because they are all top 10 in those per minute categories.

I'm not arguing that the boy can't block shots. He can. He's just not one of the best in the league at it.
Okay ... different definitions of one of the best.

As an aside, I would consider Pryzbilla an excellent rebounder and he was one of the best rebounders in the league last year. Easily top 10. I think he was top 5 in rebounding rate, and the difference he made to Portland on the court versus off the court on the backboards was nothing short of extraordinary. He's not just a guy who solely grabs rebounds either, he's a space eater who boxes out well and keeps the opposition off the glass. He was one of the finest rebounders in the league last season.

I wouldn't consider Collison an elite rebounder, or JR Smith an elite scorer, they'd be another level lower. JR Smith is a 20+ point per game player given minutes, I can't wait to see him unleashed with Iverson out of the way. Smith's scoring isn't well rounded enough and is streaky, why I wouldn't consider him an elite scorer. Also why I would consider Paul Pierce an elite scorer if he doesn't score 20ppg, well rounded, consistent, can do on demand at an incredible rate.

Smith is a good bet to lead the league in three pointers too (something like - 15 makes outside the top 10 in only 18mpg).

I draw the line at players who I don't think can sustain their level of performances in extra minutes (sometimes a reasonable allowance for drop off and if they're still there - Smith three pointers). An example of which would be Anthony Carter who I do not consider an elite assist man. Also that they can perform at a comparably high level in several different situations.

14th in blocks in only 23.6 minutes to me is one of the best shot blockers in the league. I regard Darko as an elite shot blocker. To me, he's better than very good, very good is Tyson Chandler .... and Darko is a substantially superior shot blocker than Chandler. For my money Darko is one of the 10 best shot blockers in the league today.

Re: Free Darko (well actually, trade him to the Cs)
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2008, 12:05:25 PM »

Offline hpantazo

  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24885
  • Tommy Points: 2700
Darko was 14th in the NBA last season in blocks per game despite playing only 23.8 minutes a night. Evened out for minutes and he's 7th in the league.

He's been a top shot blocker everywhere he's been. When he was in Orlando he blocked more shots per minute (by a wide margin) than Dwight Howard. Darko is a top shot blocker.
There's a reason why Darko only played 23 MPG or so over the last 2 years and came in 14th in the league in BPG both year. That reason is that he isn't good enough to earn more minutes per game hence being unable to increase his BPG numbers. If his other skills make him a liability to be on the floor for more than 23 or so MPG, can you really make an argument that he would be one of the best shot blockers in the league if he got just as many MPG as the guys who are amongst the best in the game because of their numbers? For me, I don't think so.
In 23 minutes a game he's one of the best shot blockers in the league. Just like Alonzo Mourning has been in Miami and like Diop is for Dallas. He was 14th in the NBA in blocks per game while playing those minutes.

In Orlando Dwight blocked 156 shots, Darko blocked 140. Dwight played more 50% more minutes than Darko played. He still almost matched Dwight Howard and in far less minutes, no matter how you want to slice it, Darko is an excellent shot blocker.
He might be very good at blocking shots but the original statement wasthat he was one of the best shot blockers in the league. When I think best in the league I don't think 14th. I think top 5 maybe, top 10. What I don't think of is a guy who comes in top 8 in blocks per minute.

If I did look at things that way then I would need to consider J. R. Smith in Denver one of the best scorers in the league or Joel Pryzbilla and Nick Collison two of the best rebounders in the league or Anthony Carter one of the best passers in the league because they are all top 10 in those per minute categories.

I'm not arguing that the boy can't block shots. He can. He's just not one of the best in the league at it.
Okay ... different definitions of one of the best.

As an aside, I would consider Pryzbilla an excellent rebounder and he was one of the best rebounders in the league last year. Easily top 10. I think he was top 5 in rebounding rate, and the difference he made to Portland on the court versus off the court on the backboards was nothing short of extraordinary. He's not just a guy who solely grabs rebounds either, he's a space eater who boxes out well and keeps the opposition off the glass. He was one of the finest rebounders in the league last season.

I wouldn't consider Collison an elite rebounder, or JR Smith an elite scorer, they'd be another level lower. JR Smith is a 20+ point per game player given minutes, I can't wait to see him unleashed with Iverson out of the way. Smith's scoring isn't well rounded enough and is streaky, why I wouldn't consider him an elite scorer. Also why I would consider Paul Pierce an elite scorer if he doesn't score 20ppg, well rounded, consistent, can do on demand at an incredible rate.

Smith is a good bet to lead the league in three pointers too (something like - 15 makes outside the top 10 in only 18mpg).

I draw the line at players who I don't think can sustain their level of performances in extra minutes (sometimes a reasonable allowance for drop off and if they're still there - Smith three pointers). An example of which would be Anthony Carter.

14th in blocks in only 23.6 minutes to me is one of the best shot blockers in the league. I regard Darko as an elite shot blocker. To me, he's better than very good, very good is Tyson Chandler .... and Darko is a substantially superior shot blocker than Chandler. For my money Darko is one of the 10 best shot blockers in the league today.

I agree. For example, I consider Eddie House a great 3 pt shooter. Just because he doesn't play big minutes doesn't make him any less of a 3 pt shooter. Same deal with Darko, he's a top shot blocker. Playing 20 minutes a game doesn't make him a poorer shot blocker.

Re: Free Darko (well actually, trade him to the Cs)
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2008, 01:23:41 PM »

Offline moiso

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7640
  • Tommy Points: 441
Darko is a great shot blocker, he just hasn't yet done anything else consistently well.  I agree with ssspence, I wish we signed Chris Andersen.  He would have been cheap too.