Would you agree?

[acieEarl]

If I'm Ray Allen live in CT and am already a multi millionare WHY NOT resign with the world champions for less money and even a backup role?  Same for PP.

Well first he's going to feel out some offers. If and he should get a decent contract for 2-3 years from a few team. Second, Ray's already got a ring and may have a second one. He's got nothing to prove. And third, while he's made a lot of money, a lot of guys try to max out the money on their last contract.


The only way he resigns for less if, it's somewhat close to what his market value is or if his market value is so low in a couple of years and he's not getting any offer. A guy like Cassell is a good example. Cassell's not going to get much more than the league minimum at this stage in his career.

[JSD]

If I'm Ray Allen live in CT and am already a multi millionare WHY NOT resign with the world champions for less money and even a backup role?  Same for PP.

Well first he's going to feel out some offers. If and he should get a decent contract for 2-3 years from a few team. Second, Ray's already got a ring and may have a second one. He's got nothing to prove. And third, while he's made a lot of money, a lot of guys try to max out the money on their last contract.


The only way he resigns for less if, it's somewhat close to what his market value is or if his market value is so low in a couple of years and he's not getting any offer. A guy like Cassell is a good example. Cassell's not going to get much more than the league minimum at this stage in his career.

And what's the market value for Ray 20 months from now?

[crownsy]

I'm sorry I'm not following you here... The Sonics were in a very unique situation having just landed the 2nd pick in the draft and their management was changing hands. Also,  "a washed up guy and a bench player for a hall of famer."? Wally is not washed up, Delonte is a starting combo guard in this league (starting at the 1 in Cleveland) and without the #5 pick no way this deal happens.

apperntly not in clevland he isn't since he's not going to start, and according to reports may be the 2nd gaurd off the bench. and wally is washed up. hes on a terrable contract, his knees are shot. all he does is spot up shooting. weeeeeeee!

what does seattles  managment changing hands have to do with the price of tea in china? they were moving on without ray allen, and thus traded him to a team for a bench player (im sorry, your opnion of west is, i belive, a little green tinted. he is a bench player. period. cleveland jut resigned him to be a bench player on a team that is desprate for top gaurd talent. if he can't beat out boobie gibson and that crew to be a starter, he wont be. he's a nice player, he wasen't "highly regarded" at the time or now. he is what he is, a decent combo gaurd bench player. those guys are  useful, but thier not irreplaceable.)

and as i said, yes, they wanted the number 5 pick BECAUSE they didn't value the talent in the trade highly. that was my point. and for all you know, god forbid this happens, we'll have a lottery pick next year. what if (god i cringe even thinking about it) we lose 2/3 of the GPA combo to bad injuries?

a good season isn't a give in for any team.

I don't agree here. I think That Delonte holds more value around the league than that of Baby and Pruitt. Powe might be par at the most...

see above. while we all have our own view of players, to say west is anything other than a nice bench combo gaurd, that's ridiculous to me. west is a decent player, and will probley be a good bench player for a long time, but he's not seen as some sort of super talent or prospect. powe and baby are much mroe talented and precived that way, espically powe, who hollinger and others have ranked as one of the top bench PF's in the game today.

Cleavland at the moment, with Lebron on the Books for 18 million (option year) and a fairly paid Maurice williams will be 20 Million under the cap for the summer of 2010. (Hoopshype)

so what? as i said, its not all about lebron. and even if they resign lebron, which i dont think will happen, as i said, lebron is one fo about 6 franchise guys up that year. if you miss lebron, you can go after one of the others like wade or melo. teams will be more than happy to move guys for ray allen's contract.

[acieEarl]

If I'm Ray Allen live in CT and am already a multi millionare WHY NOT resign with the world champions for less money and even a backup role?  Same for PP.

Well first he's going to feel out some offers. If and he should get a decent contract for 2-3 years from a few team. Second, Ray's already got a ring and may have a second one. He's got nothing to prove. And third, while he's made a lot of money, a lot of guys try to max out the money on their last contract.


The only way he resigns for less if, it's somewhat close to what his market value is or if his market value is so low in a couple of years and he's not getting any offer. A guy like Cassell is a good example. Cassell's not going to get much more than the league minimum at this stage in his career.

And what's the market value for Ray 20 months from now?

Good question. We'll have to wait and see. I think Ray will be 34? While his athletic ability will decline I think his shooting touch will still be there. Ray's always kept himself in tip top shape so he'd be a great addition to a team who just need him for 20 minutes of the bench. I see him getting one last decent pay check.

[JSD]

I'm sorry I'm not following you here... The Sonics were in a very unique situation having just landed the 2nd pick in the draft and their management was changing hands. Also,  "a washed up guy and a bench player for a hall of famer."? Wally is not washed up, Delonte is a starting combo guard in this league (starting at the 1 in Cleveland) and without the #5 pick no way this deal happens.

apperntly not in clevland he isn't since he's not going to start, and according to reports may be the 2nd gaurd off the bench. and wally is washed up. hes on a terrable contract, his knees are shot. all he does is spot up shooting. weeeeeeee!

what does seattles  managment changing hands have to do with the price of tea in china? they were moving on without ray allen, and thus traded him to a team for a bench player (im sorry, your opnion of west is, i belive, a little green tinted. he is a bench player. period. cleveland jut resigned him to be a bench player on a team that is desprate for top gaurd talent. if he can't beat out boobie gibson and that crew to be a starter, he wont be. he's a nice player, he wasen't "highly regarded" at the time or now. he is what he is, a decent combo gaurd bench player. those guys are  useful, but thier not irreplaceable.)

and as i said, yes, they wanted the number 5 pick BECAUSE they didn't value the talent in the trade highly. that was my point. and for all you know, god forbid this happens, we'll have a lottery pick next year. what if (god i cringe even thinking about it) we lose 2/3 of the GPA combo to bad injuries?

a good season isn't a give in for any team.

I don't agree here. I think That Delonte holds more value around the league than that of Baby and Pruitt. Powe might be par at the most...

see above. while we all have our own view of players, to say west is anything other than a nice bench combo gaurd, that's ridiculous to me. west is a decent player, and will probley be a good bench player for a long time, but he's not seen as some sort of super talent or prospect. powe and baby are much mroe talented and precived that way, espically powe, who hollinger and others have ranked as one of the top bench PF's in the game today.

Cleavland at the moment, with Lebron on the Books for 18 million (option year) and a fairly paid Maurice williams will be 20 Million under the cap for the summer of 2010. (Hoopshype)

so what? as i said, its not all about lebron. and even if they resign lebron, which i dont think will happen, as i said, lebron is one fo about 6 franchise guys up that year. if you miss lebron, you can go after one of the others like wade or melo. teams will be more than happy to move guys for ray allen's contract.

Crownsy, you've failed to comment on my main point... are the alternatives I present a better option than trading Ray Allen? Why or Why not?

West with tinted glasses? I stated a fact... He started last year on that Cleveland team and did indeed beat out Boobie for that position. No way he starting at PG over Maurice Williams and I never implied that he would...
Also, I said he and Powe are about par. What is Powe? A rotation guy off the bench... we are saying the same thing...

My point wasn't about Lebron... I was giving an example of a team with 1 superstar and there cap situation. I'll give you a different example. Kevin Martin will a lone superstar on a team with $30 to spend on the open market come the summer of 2010.

[2short]

I'd like to follow up with Ray Allen was one of our best defenders last year and the outside threat that allowed the floor to be spread.  I am not sure why so many people see him as the quick trade.  Guy is young for his age and his game style will allow him to play for quite some time.  When he looses the step on d he will be an option off the bench (instant offense) but until he looses the step he's a top notch sg in the league.

[wdleehi]

I'd like to follow up with Ray Allen was one of our best defenders last year and the outside threat that allowed the floor to be spread.  I am not sure why so many people see him as the quick trade.  Guy is young for his age and his game style will allow him to play for quite some time.  When he looses the step on d he will be an option off the bench (instant offense) but until he looses the step he's a top notch sg in the league.

Because I don't think Ainge will keep him. He wants to stay good for longer.

[JSD]

I'd like to follow up with Ray Allen was one of our best defenders last year and the outside threat that allowed the floor to be spread.  I am not sure why so many people see him as the quick trade.  Guy is young for his age and his game style will allow him to play for quite some time.  When he looses the step on d he will be an option off the bench (instant offense) but until he looses the step he's a top notch sg in the league.

Because I don't think Ainge will keep him. He wants to stay good for longer.

Obviously he wants to stay good for longer but there is alternatives to dealing Ray as an expiring contract. You stay good for longer by keeping economical HOFers on your team.

Wide Load, Read my post above.

[JSD]

I'd like to follow up with Ray Allen was one of our best defenders last year and the outside threat that allowed the floor to be spread.  I am not sure why so many people see him as the quick trade.  Guy is young for his age and his game style will allow him to play for quite some time.  When he looses the step on d he will be an option off the bench (instant offense) but until he looses the step he's a top notch sg in the league.

I think it's a stretch to say Allen was one of the Celtics best defensive players last season...

[wdleehi]

I'd like to follow up with Ray Allen was one of our best defenders last year and the outside threat that allowed the floor to be spread.  I am not sure why so many people see him as the quick trade.  Guy is young for his age and his game style will allow him to play for quite some time.  When he looses the step on d he will be an option off the bench (instant offense) but until he looses the step he's a top notch sg in the league.

Because I don't think Ainge will keep him. He wants to stay good for longer.

Obviously he wants to stay good for longer but there is alternatives to dealing Ray as an expiring contract. You stay good for longer by keeping economical HOFers on your team.

Wide Load, Read my post above.

All I know is Ainge said the Celtics made a mistake by not trading Bird and McHale when they could have.


If he would have trade Celtics players of the longevity and respect, he will have no problem trading Ray.

[JSD]

Who are the C's going to get in return for Ray's contract?

- Allen makes big money to the point where The C's would more than likely need to take on an additional contract along with the player they are trading for.

- We no longer have assets such as a #5 pick or Al Jefferson.

So unless a team is simply looking to dump a player (i.e Pau Gasol), The C’s will not find a dancing partner.If they do find a partner it will be because the other team has a serious malcontent on their hands or they have a serious under performer (and/or) Injury prone player.
Otherwise, why would a team trade a star player in the 26 – 30 age year range for an expiring contract and some late 1st rounders? It just doesn’t make sense.

In a nutshell you're saying Ray's value as an expiring contract outweighs his value to the Celtics going forward and I disagree.

What is the alternative? What happens if Ray Allen expires as a Celtic?

- The Celtics (as I mentioned above) have Scal, House and Tony Allen acting as their Kwame for 2010. You can add any assets to this package that have been acquired leading up to next season’s trade deadline and this becomes a more enticing deal for a team looking to unload a $ 9 – $11 million dollar player for financial reasons.

- The C's exercise Allen’s bird rights and If Ray gets (as I predict) a contract somewhere in the range of 3 years and $25 million that would be an annual Cap savings of approximately $10 million a year. This allows the C’s to resign Perk and Rajon without Luxury Tax ramifications.

I understand the thought process behind dealing Ray. I’m a fan of the NBA and I’ve seen what has happened around the league in terms of team’s shedding payroll. I’m just trying to make a case for the alternative which I believe is Ainge’s ultimate plan.

This post.

[JSD]

All I know is Ainge said the Celtics made a mistake by not trading Bird and McHale when they could have.

What's lost in what Ainge said about Bird and Parrish is the where the Celtics were historically at that point in time... The "Big Three" were hobbled by injury and the economics of the league were very different then.

Ray Allen's expiration in 20 months and where the Celtics will stand does not correlate.

[crownsy]

I'm sorry I'm not following you here... The Sonics were in a very unique situation having just landed the 2nd pick in the draft and their management was changing hands. Also,  "a washed up guy and a bench player for a hall of famer."? Wally is not washed up, Delonte is a starting combo guard in this league (starting at the 1 in Cleveland) and without the #5 pick no way this deal happens.

apperntly not in clevland he isn't since he's not going to start, and according to reports may be the 2nd gaurd off the bench. and wally is washed up. hes on a terrable contract, his knees are shot. all he does is spot up shooting. weeeeeeee!

what does seattles  managment changing hands have to do with the price of tea in china? they were moving on without ray allen, and thus traded him to a team for a bench player (im sorry, your opnion of west is, i belive, a little green tinted. he is a bench player. period. cleveland jut resigned him to be a bench player on a team that is desprate for top gaurd talent. if he can't beat out boobie gibson and that crew to be a starter, he wont be. he's a nice player, he wasen't "highly regarded" at the time or now. he is what he is, a decent combo gaurd bench player. those guys are  useful, but thier not irreplaceable.)

and as i said, yes, they wanted the number 5 pick BECAUSE they didn't value the talent in the trade highly. that was my point. and for all you know, god forbid this happens, we'll have a lottery pick next year. what if (god i cringe even thinking about it) we lose 2/3 of the GPA combo to bad injuries?

a good season isn't a give in for any team.

I don't agree here. I think That Delonte holds more value around the league than that of Baby and Pruitt. Powe might be par at the most...

see above. while we all have our own view of players, to say west is anything other than a nice bench combo gaurd, that's ridiculous to me. west is a decent player, and will probley be a good bench player for a long time, but he's not seen as some sort of super talent or prospect. powe and baby are much mroe talented and precived that way, espically powe, who hollinger and others have ranked as one of the top bench PF's in the game today.

Cleavland at the moment, with Lebron on the Books for 18 million (option year) and a fairly paid Maurice williams will be 20 Million under the cap for the summer of 2010. (Hoopshype)

so what? as i said, its not all about lebron. and even if they resign lebron, which i dont think will happen, as i said, lebron is one fo about 6 franchise guys up that year. if you miss lebron, you can go after one of the others like wade or melo. teams will be more than happy to move guys for ray allen's contract.

Crownsy, you've failed to comment on my main point... are the alternatives I present a better option than trading Ray Allen? Why or Why not?

West with tinted glasses? I stated a fact... He started last year on that Cleveland team and did indeed beat out Boobie for that position. No way he starting at PG over Maurice Williams and I never implied that he would...
Also, I said he and Powe are about par. What is Powe? A rotation guy off the bench... we are saying the same thing...

My point wasn't about Lebron... I was giving an example of a team with 1 superstar and there cap situation. I'll give you a different example. Kevin Martin will a lone superstar on a team with $30 to spend on the open market come the summer of 2010.

i think its fluid jas, i don't think there's an awnser yet. it will depend on how other teams prepare for 2010 and whats out their. im open to either option, but i want whats best for the team, and i think we don't know enough about how everything will play out yet.

Im just saying, the option to trade ray for a good player will be out there, and shouldn't be discounted.