Author Topic: Homeland Defense Back on Call (NFL/Patriots)  (Read 7389 times)

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Re: Homeland Defense Back on Call (NFL/Patriots)
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2008, 07:28:33 PM »

Offline Celtsfan33/34

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I hate to burst everyone's bubbles but they played KC and the Jets.  Not exactly two offensive juggernauts.  They have a SOLID front 3 but nowhere near the best D-Line in football.  And as far as Maroney goes, he's a joke and should be 4th on the depth chart behind Morris, Jordan, and Faulk.  He's too soft to be a legit RB. 

Re: Homeland Defense Back on Call (NFL/Patriots)
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2008, 09:36:32 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I hate to burst everyone's bubbles but they played KC and the Jets.  Not exactly two offensive juggernauts.  They have a SOLID front 3 but nowhere near the best D-Line in football.  And as far as Maroney goes, he's a joke and should be 4th on the depth chart behind Morris, Jordan, and Faulk.  He's too soft to be a legit RB. 
They have, without a doubt, the best 3-4 defensive line in the game. A vast majority of teams go with the 4-3 where the ends are let loose and the entire idea of the front four is to get penetration. Those defensive lines tend to rack up a ton of sacks, tackles for loss, and tackles in general compared to 3-4 defensive lines whose main responsibility is to stand up the offensive line and allow the linebackers to shoot the gaps and make the tackles. In a 3-4 it is the linebackers, especially OLBs, and blitzing defensive backs that make the most tackles, tackles for loss, and sacks. The fact that Wilfork and Seymour have both been All-Pros is a testament to how good the rest of the league thinks they are because they are put into the All Pro team in positions they don't play because those teams are configured as 4-3 defensives.

Re: Homeland Defense Back on Call (NFL/Patriots)
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2008, 09:59:04 PM »

Offline Celtsfan33/34

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I hate to burst everyone's bubbles but they played KC and the Jets.  Not exactly two offensive juggernauts.  They have a SOLID front 3 but nowhere near the best D-Line in football.  And as far as Maroney goes, he's a joke and should be 4th on the depth chart behind Morris, Jordan, and Faulk.  He's too soft to be a legit RB. 
They have, without a doubt, the best 3-4 defensive line in the game. A vast majority of teams go with the 4-3 where the ends are let loose and the entire idea of the front four is to get penetration. Those defensive lines tend to rack up a ton of sacks, tackles for loss, and tackles in general compared to 3-4 defensive lines whose main responsibility is to stand up the offensive line and allow the linebackers to shoot the gaps and make the tackles. In a 3-4 it is the linebackers, especially OLBs, and blitzing defensive backs that make the most tackles, tackles for loss, and sacks. The fact that Wilfork and Seymour have both been All-Pros is a testament to how good the rest of the league thinks they are because they are put into the All Pro team in positions they don't play because those teams are configured as 4-3 defensives.

I won't disagree with you about Wilfork.  He is without question one of, if not THE best DT in the game.  The Williams boys in Minny give him a run.  But Seymour??  I can name quite a few DE's I'd rather have than him.  Umenyiora, Tuck, Peppers, Freeney, M. Williams, Mathis, Taylor, Schobel, Kampmann, KGB(too hard to spell..lol) Spears, Ware, Burgess, and quite a few more.  Seymour in my opinion is one of many Pats players who would be useless out of Belichek's system. 

Re: Homeland Defense Back on Call (NFL/Patriots)
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2008, 10:01:21 PM »

Online Donoghus

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I hate to burst everyone's bubbles but they played KC and the Jets.  Not exactly two offensive juggernauts.  They have a SOLID front 3 but nowhere near the best D-Line in football.  And as far as Maroney goes, he's a joke and should be 4th on the depth chart behind Morris, Jordan, and Faulk.  He's too soft to be a legit RB. 
They have, without a doubt, the best 3-4 defensive line in the game. A vast majority of teams go with the 4-3 where the ends are let loose and the entire idea of the front four is to get penetration. Those defensive lines tend to rack up a ton of sacks, tackles for loss, and tackles in general compared to 3-4 defensive lines whose main responsibility is to stand up the offensive line and allow the linebackers to shoot the gaps and make the tackles. In a 3-4 it is the linebackers, especially OLBs, and blitzing defensive backs that make the most tackles, tackles for loss, and sacks. The fact that Wilfork and Seymour have both been All-Pros is a testament to how good the rest of the league thinks they are because they are put into the All Pro team in positions they don't play because those teams are configured as 4-3 defensives.

I won't disagree with you about Wilfork.  He is without question one of, if not THE best DT in the game.  The Williams boys in Minny give him a run.  But Seymour??  I can name quite a few DE's I'd rather have than him.  Umenyiora, Tuck, Peppers, Freeney, M. Williams, Mathis, Taylor, Schobel, Kampmann, KGB(too hard to spell..lol) Spears, Ware, Burgess, and quite a few more.  Seymour in my opinion is one of many Pats players who would be useless out of Belichek's system. 

How many of those guys that you named play in a 3-4 defense, though?


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Re: Homeland Defense Back on Call (NFL/Patriots)
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2008, 10:18:32 PM »

Offline Celtsfan33/34

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I hate to burst everyone's bubbles but they played KC and the Jets.  Not exactly two offensive juggernauts.  They have a SOLID front 3 but nowhere near the best D-Line in football.  And as far as Maroney goes, he's a joke and should be 4th on the depth chart behind Morris, Jordan, and Faulk.  He's too soft to be a legit RB. 
They have, without a doubt, the best 3-4 defensive line in the game. A vast majority of teams go with the 4-3 where the ends are let loose and the entire idea of the front four is to get penetration. Those defensive lines tend to rack up a ton of sacks, tackles for loss, and tackles in general compared to 3-4 defensive lines whose main responsibility is to stand up the offensive line and allow the linebackers to shoot the gaps and make the tackles. In a 3-4 it is the linebackers, especially OLBs, and blitzing defensive backs that make the most tackles, tackles for loss, and sacks. The fact that Wilfork and Seymour have both been All-Pros is a testament to how good the rest of the league thinks they are because they are put into the All Pro team in positions they don't play because those teams are configured as 4-3 defensives.

I won't disagree with you about Wilfork.  He is without question one of, if not THE best DT in the game.  The Williams boys in Minny give him a run.  But Seymour??  I can name quite a few DE's I'd rather have than him.  Umenyiora, Tuck, Peppers, Freeney, M. Williams, Mathis, Taylor, Schobel, Kampmann, KGB(too hard to spell..lol) Spears, Ware, Burgess, and quite a few more.  Seymour in my opinion is one of many Pats players who would be useless out of Belichek's system. 

How many of those guys that you named play in a 3-4 defense, though?

Why should any of that matter??  The truly GREAT DE's can stop the run AND Rush the passer no matter what the scheme.  Seymour is as one dimensional as they come IMO.

Re: Homeland Defense Back on Call (NFL/Patriots)
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2008, 10:31:33 PM »

Offline FanInTheSouth

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I hate to burst everyone's bubbles but they played KC and the Jets.  Not exactly two offensive juggernauts.  They have a SOLID front 3 but nowhere near the best D-Line in football.  And as far as Maroney goes, he's a joke and should be 4th on the depth chart behind Morris, Jordan, and Faulk.  He's too soft to be a legit RB. 
They have, without a doubt, the best 3-4 defensive line in the game. A vast majority of teams go with the 4-3 where the ends are let loose and the entire idea of the front four is to get penetration. Those defensive lines tend to rack up a ton of sacks, tackles for loss, and tackles in general compared to 3-4 defensive lines whose main responsibility is to stand up the offensive line and allow the linebackers to shoot the gaps and make the tackles. In a 3-4 it is the linebackers, especially OLBs, and blitzing defensive backs that make the most tackles, tackles for loss, and sacks. The fact that Wilfork and Seymour have both been All-Pros is a testament to how good the rest of the league thinks they are because they are put into the All Pro team in positions they don't play because those teams are configured as 4-3 defensives.

I won't disagree with you about Wilfork.  He is without question one of, if not THE best DT in the game.  The Williams boys in Minny give him a run.  But Seymour??  I can name quite a few DE's I'd rather have than him.  Umenyiora, Tuck, Peppers, Freeney, M. Williams, Mathis, Taylor, Schobel, Kampmann, KGB(too hard to spell..lol) Spears, Ware, Burgess, and quite a few more.  Seymour in my opinion is one of many Pats players who would be useless out of Belichek's system. 

How many of those guys that you named play in a 3-4 defense, though?

Why should any of that matter??  The truly GREAT DE's can stop the run AND Rush the passer no matter what the scheme.  Seymour is as one dimensional as they come IMO.

I think most people in the league would disagree with that statement.  Ever since Seymour started getting props for his game, it's always been about his versatility.  What is the 1 dimension that you see from him?

Re: Homeland Defense Back on Call (NFL/Patriots)
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2008, 10:57:33 PM »

Online Donoghus

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I hate to burst everyone's bubbles but they played KC and the Jets.  Not exactly two offensive juggernauts.  They have a SOLID front 3 but nowhere near the best D-Line in football.  And as far as Maroney goes, he's a joke and should be 4th on the depth chart behind Morris, Jordan, and Faulk.  He's too soft to be a legit RB. 
They have, without a doubt, the best 3-4 defensive line in the game. A vast majority of teams go with the 4-3 where the ends are let loose and the entire idea of the front four is to get penetration. Those defensive lines tend to rack up a ton of sacks, tackles for loss, and tackles in general compared to 3-4 defensive lines whose main responsibility is to stand up the offensive line and allow the linebackers to shoot the gaps and make the tackles. In a 3-4 it is the linebackers, especially OLBs, and blitzing defensive backs that make the most tackles, tackles for loss, and sacks. The fact that Wilfork and Seymour have both been All-Pros is a testament to how good the rest of the league thinks they are because they are put into the All Pro team in positions they don't play because those teams are configured as 4-3 defensives.

I won't disagree with you about Wilfork.  He is without question one of, if not THE best DT in the game.  The Williams boys in Minny give him a run.  But Seymour??  I can name quite a few DE's I'd rather have than him.  Umenyiora, Tuck, Peppers, Freeney, M. Williams, Mathis, Taylor, Schobel, Kampmann, KGB(too hard to spell..lol) Spears, Ware, Burgess, and quite a few more.  Seymour in my opinion is one of many Pats players who would be useless out of Belichek's system. 

How many of those guys that you named play in a 3-4 defense, though?

Why should any of that matter??  The truly GREAT DE's can stop the run AND Rush the passer no matter what the scheme.  Seymour is as one dimensional as they come IMO.

Actually, it does matter.  There is a significant difference between how a defensive end plays in a 3-4 formation and a 4-3 formation.  This includes where they line up on the line, how they defend the run, and how they defend the pass.  Oftentimes, Seymour is playing a two-gap technique where he's taking up position along the line and stuffing running lanes, this forces the run to the linebackers.  A side effect of this, as Nick mentioned, is that the LBs garner the big tackle numbers, not the defensive linemen.  On the pass side, if they're only rushing 3 guys because the LBs are in pass coverage, of course his numbers are going to be down from a DE playing in a 4-3 scheme, there's one less rusher.  When the D does brings more, its often the LB rushing the outside who is going to grab the sacks, not the DE.  Despite that, he still has over 30 sacks for his career.  Not bad for a 8 year pro.

3 time All-Pro and 5 Pro Bowls isn't too shabby for someone whose "one-dimensional", either.


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