Author Topic: How to approach a lil Wayne argument.  (Read 16790 times)

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Re: How to approach a lil Wayne argument.
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2008, 05:29:51 PM »

Offline Schupac

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I'm so incredibly tired of all the "real" hip hop fans you have to tell you about Bun B and all these other underground artists and claim that they're "real" hip hop and someone like Wayne isn't.... because he's popular? because he raps over good beats? because he's making money? I just don't get it.

The guy's album is incredible.  Take away the t-pain stuff like got money, look at tracks like 3 Peat and almost the entire leak album... shoot me down, let the beat build, mrs officer... there are an incredible number of insanely good tracks on tha carter III, especially if you include the stuff from the leak.

Why not just give a guy his due? All these rap arguments about who is the greatest alive and top 5 all time and all that stuff is just garbage, but this counter culture backlash against lil wayne is absurd, he's become such an incredible rapper who puts out such consistent quality, but now everyone's got to be so against him because he's had commercial success, it's outright ridiculous

I know very little about underground rap.  But I do know little wayne blows.

Oh yeah, also I don't do the 'lil' thing.  It's little kim.  Little bow wow (he will NEVER be bow wow... ever... it's little forever, sorry buddy).  Little Wayne.

Re: How to approach a lil Wayne argument.
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2008, 05:39:25 PM »

Offline Actionjakson

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man, whats up with all the lil wayne hate?! I realize this board is obviously pro-underground rap (Wutang and Bun B references etc...) but lil wayne is def hott. The dude spends 24/7 in the booth, almost averaging a song a day. Yes, some of his stuff has become somewhat pop/R&B but alot of his stuff is amazing. Take away the radio hits like Lollipop and Got Money and stuff he does with auto-tune, and check his music. His old stuff (This is tha Carter, Fireman, Best Rapper Alive) and the non-commercial songs off the Carter III (Let the Beat Build, 3 Peat, Dont Shoot Me Down) are fire. His flow and lyrics are great. He has the most clever lines out there. His best stuff is his mixtapes. The Drought Three is so great. One of his best songs ever is The Sky is the Limit. Another personal favorite is Something You Forgot. He just crushes songs when he trys to. Some say he is a sell out, and to a point thats true. But, isnt the point to make as much money as possible? Even if you cant stand his commercial success, take a listen to some of his lesser known songs and you will appreciate it
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Re: How to approach a lil Wayne argument.
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2008, 05:43:21 PM »

Offline shookones99

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I'm so incredibly tired of all the "real" hip hop fans you have to tell you about Bun B and all these other underground artists and claim that they're "real" hip hop and someone like Wayne isn't.... because he's popular? because he raps over good beats? because he's making money? I just don't get it.

The guy's album is incredible.  Take away the t-pain stuff like got money, look at tracks like 3 Peat and almost the entire leak album... shoot me down, let the beat build, mrs officer... there are an incredible number of insanely good tracks on tha carter III, especially if you include the stuff from the leak.

Why not just give a guy his due? All these rap arguments about who is the greatest alive and top 5 all time and all that stuff is just garbage, but this counter culture backlash against lil wayne is absurd, he's become such an incredible rapper who puts out such consistent quality, but now everyone's got to be so against him because he's had commercial success, it's outright ridiculous

Bun B is talented.  Jay-Z (who has made so much money from hip hop) is incredibly talented.  Ludacris is good as is Busta Rhymes.  They all make a lot of money.  Lil Wayne is simply not so talented.  He is creative but not talented.


What makes a rapper talented? When I see a basketball player who can jump through the roof, I know he has talent... a guy with a silky smooth J is talented... this is rap music, there's no physicality to this.

What I know about Wayne is that he's prolific and consistent.  I never hear a Lil Wayne verse on his own albums or anyone else's and end up disappointed.  I probably can't name 5 rappers I can say that about, and Bun B certainly doesn't make that list.  Wayne is incredibly creative, sometimes shockingly creative, and contrary to what someone just posted above, I think this creativity is pushing rap in ways that are new and exciting, especially while Nas makes such an obvious shock value play in trying to name his album what he went for.  Seriously, Nas gets all this credit, but what has he really done? Because he's an angry black man who doesn't rap over kanye beats he's got street cred and is therefore talented?

I don't see music as a talent thing.  It's a personal preference thing, for sure.  I'm not against people who are into underground rap, it just isn't my thing, I listen to hip hop as a musical experience, the beats, lyrics, and sounds just coming together to either please me or repulse me, and lil wayne almost always leaves me wanting more.  Given the tremendous number of people buying his stuff, I'm probably not alone.  Now what does that necessitate that he's not a talented rapper who isn't "real"?  He's out there making music, not spending 36 months between albums (or 5 years, like some artists) and he's bringing it in ways that people love, why not just appreciate that?

Have you listened to the new Nas album?  He is trying to revolutionize hip hop.  There is not one song where money, women, and drugs are the main focus.  To me this seems to be what the majority of Lil Wayne's songs are about.  I like rap that makes me think.  I agree 100% that everyone has their own reasons for listening to the music they do and I'm not trying to knock you as a Lil Wayne listener.  I just think that he has a voice on the national stage and that he could be doing a lot more with that power and could be having a positive effect on his culture and where he came from.  My problem is that he doesn't seem to care about that.  He wants to make money and be known as the best rapper.  Nas is trying to bring something positive to hip hop and make his people think.  Unfortunately he gets no radio-play so people don't get to hear his message.  People assume that he is just looking to make money because of his controversial album title when in reality he is trying to do something good with his popularity.
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Re: How to approach a lil Wayne argument.
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2008, 05:53:10 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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i cant stand lil wayne at all, but i dont knock people for liking him, or anyone else.  let people like who they like for the reasons they have. if people came at me knocking me for liking wu tang, heiro, or any other artists i like...i would simply say why i like them and move on.  if they knock me, i would laugh at their immaturity of creating an issue over something as trivial as differences in personal taste
« Last Edit: September 08, 2008, 06:35:45 PM by dark_lord »

Re: How to approach a lil Wayne argument.
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2008, 11:23:47 PM »

Offline BigAlTheFuture

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Not a Lil Wayne fan at all but he does have some decent songs. He just chooses the bad songs to make a music video out of. All of his good songs are basically unknown. I don't blame him either. Do whatever you gotta do to sell records.
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Re: How to approach a lil Wayne argument.
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2008, 12:12:19 AM »

Offline threzd

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I can't stand Lil Wayne's voice..that's why I don't listen to him.

Re: How to approach a lil Wayne argument.
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2008, 08:10:31 AM »

Online JSD

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I'm so incredibly tired of all the "real" hip hop fans you have to tell you about Bun B and all these other underground artists and claim that they're "real" hip hop and someone like Wayne isn't.... because he's popular? because he raps over good beats? because he's making money? I just don't get it.

The guy's album is incredible.  Take away the t-pain stuff like got money, look at tracks like 3 Peat and almost the entire leak album... shoot me down, let the beat build, mrs officer... there are an incredible number of insanely good tracks on tha carter III, especially if you include the stuff from the leak.

Why not just give a guy his due? All these rap arguments about who is the greatest alive and top 5 all time and all that stuff is just garbage, but this counter culture backlash against lil wayne is absurd, he's become such an incredible rapper who puts out such consistent quality, but now everyone's got to be so against him because he's had commercial success, it's outright ridiculous

Bun B is talented.  Jay-Z (who has made so much money from hip hop) is incredibly talented.  Ludacris is good as is Busta Rhymes.  They all make a lot of money.  Lil Wayne is simply not so talented.  He is creative but not talented.


What makes a rapper talented? When I see a basketball player who can jump through the roof, I know he has talent... a guy with a silky smooth J is talented... this is rap music, there's no physicality to this.

What I know about Wayne is that he's prolific and consistent.  I never hear a Lil Wayne verse on his own albums or anyone else's and end up disappointed.  I probably can't name 5 rappers I can say that about, and Bun B certainly doesn't make that list.  Wayne is incredibly creative, sometimes shockingly creative, and contrary to what someone just posted above, I think this creativity is pushing rap in ways that are new and exciting, especially while Nas makes such an obvious shock value play in trying to name his album what he went for.  Seriously, Nas gets all this credit, but what has he really done? Because he's an angry black man who doesn't rap over kanye beats he's got street cred and is therefore talented?

I don't see music as a talent thing.  It's a personal preference thing, for sure.  I'm not against people who are into underground rap, it just isn't my thing, I listen to hip hop as a musical experience, the beats, lyrics, and sounds just coming together to either please me or repulse me, and lil wayne almost always leaves me wanting more.  Given the tremendous number of people buying his stuff, I'm probably not alone.  Now what does that necessitate that he's not a talented rapper who isn't "real"?  He's out there making music, not spending 36 months between albums (or 5 years, like some artists) and he's bringing it in ways that people love, why not just appreciate that?

Eh... Little Wayne's lyrical content is that of a middle school student in my opinion. He is a poor punchline rapper at best.

You want substance? check out

Immortal Technique, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Common, AZ, Anyone from WU....

Just having the word "lil" in your name to me, instant credibility loss...
The only color that matters is GREEN

Re: How to approach a lil Wayne argument.
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2008, 08:13:18 AM »

Online JSD

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man, whats up with all the lil wayne hate?! I realize this board is obviously pro-underground rap (Wutang and Bun B references etc...) but lil wayne is def hott. The dude spends 24/7 in the booth, almost averaging a song a day. Yes, some of his stuff has become somewhat pop/R&B but alot of his stuff is amazing. Take away the radio hits like Lollipop and Got Money and stuff he does with auto-tune, and check his music. His old stuff (This is tha Carter, Fireman, Best Rapper Alive) and the non-commercial songs off the Carter III (Let the Beat Build, 3 Peat, Dont Shoot Me Down) are fire. His flow and lyrics are great. He has the most clever lines out there. His best stuff is his mixtapes. The Drought Three is so great. One of his best songs ever is The Sky is the Limit. Another personal favorite is Something You Forgot. He just crushes songs when he trys to. Some say he is a sell out, and to a point thats true. But, isnt the point to make as much money as possible? Even if you cant stand his commercial success, take a listen to some of his lesser known songs and you will appreciate it

Going off the basketball analogy, He can spend all day working on his jump shot... he still misses it in the game.
The only color that matters is GREEN

Re: How to approach a lil Wayne argument.
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2008, 08:16:17 AM »

Online JSD

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Hmm... I think there is a correlation here.

Please put your age and on a scale of 1 - 10 (ten being great rapper, one being terrible) what you think of Lil Wayne. I'll start


24 Years old.

1

The only color that matters is GREEN

Re: How to approach a lil Wayne argument.
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2008, 08:29:49 AM »

Online JSD

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I don't want to come off as a jerk because music is music and people do have different reasons for listening.

With Lil Wayne I'm sure people dance, pump their systems and have a good time with his music. I don't have a problem with that...


The only color that matters is GREEN

Re: How to approach a lil Wayne argument.
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2008, 10:11:45 AM »

Offline teddykgb

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I'm so incredibly tired of all the "real" hip hop fans you have to tell you about Bun B and all these other underground artists and claim that they're "real" hip hop and someone like Wayne isn't.... because he's popular? because he raps over good beats? because he's making money? I just don't get it.

The guy's album is incredible.  Take away the t-pain stuff like got money, look at tracks like 3 Peat and almost the entire leak album... shoot me down, let the beat build, mrs officer... there are an incredible number of insanely good tracks on tha carter III, especially if you include the stuff from the leak.

Why not just give a guy his due? All these rap arguments about who is the greatest alive and top 5 all time and all that stuff is just garbage, but this counter culture backlash against lil wayne is absurd, he's become such an incredible rapper who puts out such consistent quality, but now everyone's got to be so against him because he's had commercial success, it's outright ridiculous

Bun B is talented.  Jay-Z (who has made so much money from hip hop) is incredibly talented.  Ludacris is good as is Busta Rhymes.  They all make a lot of money.  Lil Wayne is simply not so talented.  He is creative but not talented.


What makes a rapper talented? When I see a basketball player who can jump through the roof, I know he has talent... a guy with a silky smooth J is talented... this is rap music, there's no physicality to this.

What I know about Wayne is that he's prolific and consistent.  I never hear a Lil Wayne verse on his own albums or anyone else's and end up disappointed.  I probably can't name 5 rappers I can say that about, and Bun B certainly doesn't make that list.  Wayne is incredibly creative, sometimes shockingly creative, and contrary to what someone just posted above, I think this creativity is pushing rap in ways that are new and exciting, especially while Nas makes such an obvious shock value play in trying to name his album what he went for.  Seriously, Nas gets all this credit, but what has he really done? Because he's an angry black man who doesn't rap over kanye beats he's got street cred and is therefore talented?

I don't see music as a talent thing.  It's a personal preference thing, for sure.  I'm not against people who are into underground rap, it just isn't my thing, I listen to hip hop as a musical experience, the beats, lyrics, and sounds just coming together to either please me or repulse me, and lil wayne almost always leaves me wanting more.  Given the tremendous number of people buying his stuff, I'm probably not alone.  Now what does that necessitate that he's not a talented rapper who isn't "real"?  He's out there making music, not spending 36 months between albums (or 5 years, like some artists) and he's bringing it in ways that people love, why not just appreciate that?

Eh... Little Wayne's lyrical content is that of a middle school student in my opinion. He is a poor punchline rapper at best.

You want substance? check out

Immortal Technique, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Common, AZ, Anyone from WU....

Just having the word "lil" in your name to me, instant credibility loss...

This is such a non starter argument...

First of all, I listen to Mos Def and Talib Kweli, common, and wu .... when did wu become "deep" anyway? Wayne has songs about many different things, some of them silly, some of them deep, and everything in between.  He's a creative guy, he goes in many different ways, and this difference is what makes him unique and refreshing.  I love Talib, but after 9 songs I get tired of him, it ends up all sounding the same, and the fact that htese guys all talk about how they're not "bling" rappers doesn't mean they're better, just different.  There isn't necessarily more substance, listen to a song like "Broken Glass", it's not really that deep a song, and there are tons of them like that, he's just not rapping about how much money he has, but when Wayne does that kind of stuff, he does it in a unique way that doesn't make you groan.

Honestly, I get the feeling that you're just trolling on this topic, because you're not even close to being reasonable on it, nobody in their right mind would rate wayne a 1 on a 1-10 scale ... it's simply impossible to have that opinion if you're making an honest evaluation.  And for the record, i'm 26 years old.


Re: How to approach a lil Wayne argument.
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2008, 11:19:29 AM »

Offline NextCeltic34

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This is such a pointless discussion.

If you don't like Lil Wayne, then don't listen. If someone else likes him, respect it.

Most of Wayne's fans are in their teenage years anyway and I will tell you this seeing as I'm in High School right now. NO ONE things Wayne is the best rapper alive, or even close to it.

Re: How to approach a lil Wayne argument.
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2008, 11:21:16 AM »

Offline LA_33

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I'm an admitted music snob in my 30's, who was weaned on the early/mid 90's hip hop scene that I still think is the pinnacle of the genre.

I think lil Wayne is a genius. 

He's never going to be realistically compared as a lyricist to people like Nas, Kweli, etc.  He is a great punch-liner with a deep arsenal of (mostly sports and pop culture) metaphors, however. 

Most importantly, though, he's a brilliant, and incredibly unique, pop star, the weirdest artist to succeed in the mainstream since Ol' Dirty Edited for profanity.  Please do not do it again. was selling "Return to the 36..." to 14-year-old girls who lived in trailer parks and mostly listened to country.  "A Milli" was a top-40 radio hit for god's sake, and that's on the short list of the strangest songs I've ever heard on the radio, popular, underground, or otherwise.

Based on everything I've read about his creative process, I'm also convinced that it's conscious, and intentional.  He's not just getting wasted and mumbling things into the mic; he records his vocal tracks over and over and over, to make sure that every phrasing and intonation is exactly how he wants it to be. 

He's also doing a lot of things that are generally considered "lazy" or looked down upon, rhyming words with themselves, using "middle school level" potty-humor, etc. But he makes it sound great, and I think he's doing it very self-consciously, playing off of the "Li'l" moniker, and the fact that he was making gold records when he was 14.

This is an incredibly smart guy, one of the first relatively self-made platinum successes from the post-napster, give-it-away-for-free-on-the internet era of the music industry, who's pumping out huge numbers of songs, all of which are consistently solid, and usually better than that. 

I also think that's it's pretty clear that some of the biggest names in the industry admire him, and think he's going to be at the top of the game for a long time; he's getting Jay-Z as a guest on his album, landing guest spots with kings of hip-hop pop OutKast (other than Raekwon, Snoop, and Ludacris, he's the only non-Dungeon Family guest I can think of to get a verse on a any Outkast project) and getting beats from the likes of Kanye, Alchemist, and David Banner (who I don't get, personally, but who produced a track for freaking Rza on the new Bobby Digital, and Rza's still an unassailable taste-maker, IMO).

I certainly understand why people don't like him, don't get the shtick, only care about "real" hip-hop and not anything that leans more toward pop, etc.(Do the anti-Wanye people like OutKast?  I'm honestly curious, because I think he has a lot in common with them as pop stars.)  But he's too well regarded by too many top hip-hop taste-makers, critics, and a sheer mass of fans to dismiss.   

Re: How to approach a lil Wayne argument.
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2008, 11:33:36 AM »

Offline bleedingreen

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But they say he's rappin like big, jay, tupac, andre 3000...

Re: How to approach a lil Wayne argument.
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2008, 11:42:03 AM »

Offline ManUp

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Carter I & II great albums, and after Da Drought III everything he did took a step back, In my opinion. If you can't acknowledge that Lil Wayne has talent after listening to those 3 albums (&mixtape) your in denial.

I understand if you don't like what he raps about since 90% percent of the mainstream rappers rap about it, but if he does it better then most you've got to atleast respect it.

With that said the last year & half of his music has been crap... especially Tha Carter III :P Everyone that he featured on his last album outshined him. He should be smacked everytime he calls him self the best rapper alive.