ESPN hating on the Celtics

[Mr October]

the ESPN predictions seam pretty reasonable to me. They're just average guesses. The actual wins will probably be with in 5 games of those guesses.

[D Dub]

The West will be fun to watch, I am curious about Portland the most.  They could blow the doors off some teams if Oden does what is expected of him.  There isn't a big out West that can contain him.

Imagine LA gets the first seed, and Portland sneaks in at eigth?  That would be nightmare matchup for LA and there paper thin front line.  If that matchup comes to be, I am running to the nearest casino to put money on the Blazers.

I agree with the curiosity about Portland D Dub but LA has a 'paper-thin' front line?  With Bynum, Gasol and Lamar Odom?  I'm not sure I understand this.

-sw

Well, they don't have a backup center and those 3 guys mentioned are not exactly 'hard nosed'.  Losing Turiaf was a big blow, they now have no physical presense up front.  Teams with dominant pf's and c's are going to have a field day going against Chris Mihm when Gasol & Bynum get in foul trouble.  And they will get into foul trouble often, as niether one is a very good defender.  

If they go into the playoffs as is, I think teams like SA, Portland, & Houston have major advantages over them.  Bynum will get exposed as a weak defender and a soft presense, just as Gasol did last year.

[Brickowski]

I don't think ESPN's predictions are that out of whack. I agree that the Celtics will struggle to win 60 games and may fall short.  But I reaaly don't think the issue is Posey.  IMHO they've got plenty of guys to fill that role, starting with Tony Allen.  And if by some miracle Darius Miles is healthy, he's 10 times more talented than Posey ever was and just as good defensively.  I don't know much about Giddens, but I do know that, if healthy, Bill Walker is a lottery talent.

But the rest of the East is alot stronger.  Philly will be vastly improved, and so will the Knicks. As ESPN notes, Miami will be far tougher with a healthy Wade plus Michael Beasley. 

[JR Giddens]

The West will be fun to watch, I am curious about Portland the most.  They could blow the doors off some teams if Oden does what is expected of him.  There isn't a big out West that can contain him.

Imagine LA gets the first seed, and Portland sneaks in at eigth?  That would be nightmare matchup for LA and there paper thin front line.  If that matchup comes to be, I am running to the nearest casino to put money on the Blazers.

I agree with the curiosity about Portland D Dub but LA has a 'paper-thin' front line?  With Bynum, Gasol and Lamar Odom?  I'm not sure I understand this.

-sw

Well, they don't have a backup center and those 3 guys mentioned are not exactly 'hard nosed'.  Losing Turiaf was a big blow, they now have no physical presense up front.  Teams with dominant pf's and c's are going to have a field day going against Chris Mihm when Gasol & Bynum get in foul trouble.  And they will get into foul trouble often, as niether one is a very good defender.  

If they go into the playoffs as is, I think teams like SA, Portland, & Houston have major advantages over them.  Bynum will get exposed as a weak defender and a soft presense, just as Gasol did last year.

It's funny how Faker fans think Oden and Bynum will bet the next Hakeem/Shaq rivalry.

Greg Oden is a monster and Bynum looks like a holiday ham!

[nickagneta]

The West will be fun to watch, I am curious about Portland the most.  They could blow the doors off some teams if Oden does what is expected of him.  There isn't a big out West that can contain him.

Imagine LA gets the first seed, and Portland sneaks in at eigth?  That would be nightmare matchup for LA and there paper thin front line.  If that matchup comes to be, I am running to the nearest casino to put money on the Blazers.

I agree with the curiosity about Portland D Dub but LA has a 'paper-thin' front line?  With Bynum, Gasol and Lamar Odom?  I'm not sure I understand this.

-sw

Well, they don't have a backup center and those 3 guys mentioned are not exactly 'hard nosed'.  Losing Turiaf was a big blow, they now have no physical presense up front.  Teams with dominant pf's and c's are going to have a field day going against Chris Mihm when Gasol & Bynum get in foul trouble.  And they will get into foul trouble often, as niether one is a very good defender.  

If they go into the playoffs as is, I think teams like SA, Portland, & Houston have major advantages over them.  Bynum will get exposed as a weak defender and a soft presense, just as Gasol did last year.

It's funny how Faker fans think Oden and Bynum will bet the next Hakeem/Shaq rivalry.

Greg Oden is a monster and Bynum looks like a holiday ham!

As much as I think Oden may win ROY, I wouldn't be making any predictions about either center's game until they can prove they can be on the court for 80 games in one season. If they do that and show something, we can then make all the comparisons we want. Until then they are nothing more than a couple of unproven young 20-something centers who haven't done anything yet.

[fairweatherfan]

For everyone noting the low spread in wins (top teams only winning 55 games, lowest in the mid-20s), it's probably because this is a group average of 25 different raters.  Averages of bigger groups like that tend to cluster towards the middle, which is why we see the distribution we do.  There's also no one (or two) dominant teams out there - we're as close as it gets and we have our fair share of question marks.

[celticmaestro]

Allow me to cast your mind back to last year:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/preview2007/news/story?page=Experts-EastChamps

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/preview2007/news/story?page=Experts-NBAChamps

http://www.nba.com/features/expertpredictions_071030.html - pay special attention to John Hares.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=HollingerForecastIndex0708

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2008/series?series=lalbos - a personal favorite.

So, if you take anything from this, let it be to never pay heed to predictions of the "experts" ever again (unless it's Tim Legler).

[Evantime34]

What were the experts saying would be a huge problem that would keep us from going deep last year? the bench, can the stars co-exist.
What are they saying this year? the bench.

I think our bench will be fine and we win more games than last year.

[zerophase]

i would've placed the hornets over the lakers but thats okay. in a playoff series, the lakers don't stand a chance against cp3. if they couldn't stop pierce from slashing... how will they stop chris paul? how do you rank golden state with an injuried ellis and no one else on their team over a clippers team with both davis and camby? i don't understand that pick.

TP zero, that ticked me off to.

the only excuse i can give them is mabey this was written for press before that injury came out?

but yea, the warriors seem real, real weak to be put in the slot they are over the clips.

thanks for the TP. even before his injury... I mean they still lost their biggest star and they honestly have no replacement. if they were 9th seed last year, what makes them just as good last year as they were this year without their star player? if they rank the celtics as loosing 11 more games without a key bench player, 11! more games... where are the warriors without a starting point guard? corey maggette didn't do much for the clippers... he's like the crawford for their team, high scoring but not overall productive. just ridiculous.

[nickagneta]

What were the experts saying would be a huge problem that would keep us from going deep last year? the bench, can the stars co-exist.
What are they saying this year? the bench.

I think our bench will be fine and we win more games than last year.

Interesting take!

You know something that I haven't seen and yet could be a very realistic possibility is that after going through the growing pains of learning how to play with each other last year, that this starting five could take a huge step forward and just bury everyone they come against as all of their weapons hone in together and the confidence of knowing what to expect out of each other grows. When the Celtics played poorly lasy year in the playoffs, they struggled and played close games. When they played well very seldom did they not blow out their opponents. And that was the playoffs.

They very well could just as easily win 70 games as they could 55 if the starters play more consistently great basketball with each other. You never know!!

[JR Giddens]

What were the experts saying would be a huge problem that would keep us from going deep last year? the bench, can the stars co-exist.
What are they saying this year? the bench.

I think our bench will be fine and we win more games than last year.

Celtics not going to win over 60 games next year but we'll be a better playoff team.

Last year this time our bench was Big Baby(unknown), Leon Powe(unknown), James Posey(no one cared about him at the time), Scott Pollard(just filler), and Eddie House(couldn't make the suns roster)

If these guys didn't dissapoint us then I'm sure these new players with more potential won't let us down next year either

[Reggie's Ghost]

Posey had great defense in the regular season but offensively what can he do besides stand behind the arc in the corner?

We will miss posey in the playoffs BIG time, but I'd take a healthy Tony Allen, D Miles, JR, and Walker over him for a 82-game season 10 times out of 10

That makes 1 of us

Posey provided leadership, veteran headiness, and was not just a good 3 point shooter, he was cold blooded when it counted.  All to ignore that he was in the top two best defenders on our team.

I think an 11 game drop is totally reasonable estimate if the team stands pat, but I'd expect that midseason acquisitions will change the face of this teams backup options.  No matter what, we'll still be starting the the same 5 guys, with 1 additional year of experience with each other, so we'll still be filthy this coming year.  Even our "haters" have us 1st in the East...

[drza44]

I'm in the camp that expects the Cs to be comfortably better in both the regular season and the playoffs this season if everyone stays relatively healthy.  Last season's team probably had about 65 wins +/- 5 games potential in the regular season...with bad luck they could have "only" won about 60 games, with good luck they could have probably won 70 or 71.

They return the vast majority of their regular season core, losing only 6th man Posey from the rotation and replacing his role with a healthier Tony Allen.  Brown and Cassell had very little to do with the regular season 66 wins, and in fact incorporating Cassell late in the year probably led to a couple more losses than they otherwise would have had.  I expect Rondo in particular, but also the 3 young bigs to all be markedly improved this year and to also take on a larger role in day-to-day energy production for the squad.  And that's not even considering the comfort of everyone knowing their team role from day 1, instead of learning on the fly, which should also lead to team improvement.

While some believe that the team will be less focused (especially on the regular season) after winning a title, or that the competition has closed the gap, I think the exact opposite.  If they stay healthy, I think this Celtics team has a very good chance to win 70 games next year.  It's possible they could fall back in the regular season, but I'd be shocked if they only won 55 games barring catastrophe.  Put it like this,I'd be more surprised to see them win only 55 games than I would be to see them break the Bulls' 72-win regular season record.

[Steve Weinman]

The West will be fun to watch, I am curious about Portland the most.  They could blow the doors off some teams if Oden does what is expected of him.  There isn't a big out West that can contain him.

Imagine LA gets the first seed, and Portland sneaks in at eigth?  That would be nightmare matchup for LA and there paper thin front line.  If that matchup comes to be, I am running to the nearest casino to put money on the Blazers.

I agree with the curiosity about Portland D Dub but LA has a 'paper-thin' front line?  With Bynum, Gasol and Lamar Odom?  I'm not sure I understand this.

-sw

Well, they don't have a backup center and those 3 guys mentioned are not exactly 'hard nosed'.  Losing Turiaf was a big blow, they now have no physical presense up front.  Teams with dominant pf's and c's are going to have a field day going against Chris Mihm when Gasol & Bynum get in foul trouble.  And they will get into foul trouble often, as niether one is a very good defender. 

If they go into the playoffs as is, I think teams like SA, Portland, & Houston have major advantages over them.  Bynum will get exposed as a weak defender and a soft presense, just as Gasol did last year.

It's funny how Faker fans think Oden and Bynum will bet the next Hakeem/Shaq rivalry.

Greg Oden is a monster and Bynum looks like a holiday ham!

If only all holiday hams, so to speak, could - at age 20 - put up 13 points, 10 boards, 2 blocks and nearly 64 percent field-goal shooting in less than 30 minutes per game. 

-sw

[JR Giddens]

The West will be fun to watch, I am curious about Portland the most.  They could blow the doors off some teams if Oden does what is expected of him.  There isn't a big out West that can contain him.

Imagine LA gets the first seed, and Portland sneaks in at eigth?  That would be nightmare matchup for LA and there paper thin front line.  If that matchup comes to be, I am running to the nearest casino to put money on the Blazers.

I agree with the curiosity about Portland D Dub but LA has a 'paper-thin' front line?  With Bynum, Gasol and Lamar Odom?  I'm not sure I understand this.

-sw

Well, they don't have a backup center and those 3 guys mentioned are not exactly 'hard nosed'.  Losing Turiaf was a big blow, they now have no physical presense up front.  Teams with dominant pf's and c's are going to have a field day going against Chris Mihm when Gasol & Bynum get in foul trouble.  And they will get into foul trouble often, as niether one is a very good defender. 

If they go into the playoffs as is, I think teams like SA, Portland, & Houston have major advantages over them.  Bynum will get exposed as a weak defender and a soft presense, just as Gasol did last year.

It's funny how Faker fans think Oden and Bynum will bet the next Hakeem/Shaq rivalry.

Greg Oden is a monster and Bynum looks like a holiday ham!

If only all holiday hams, so to speak, could - at age 20 - put up 13 points, 10 boards, 2 blocks and nearly 64 percent field-goal shooting in less than 30 minutes per game. 

-sw

Fair enough but Bynum didn't put those numbers up against the Cavs, Magic, Pistons, Celtics, or Rockets!

Anyways the Celtics are not going to win 70 games next year not even close. And I'm a fan that thinks Tony Allen and JR Guiddens together will be more helpful to us than ONE James Posey. I also expect Rajon to take it two steps further.

But I don't think the Celtics can win 60 games next year let alone 70!