Dream Team vs. Redeem Team

[Steve Weinman]

I think the real point to be made is the Redeem Team is quite a ways away from the best team that could be fielded vs. the Dream Team, aside from C.L. A team without guys like KG, Paul and/or Ray, possibly Shaq, Josh Smith, Iverson, T Mac and a host of others is an incomplete team. The Dream Team was compiled to put the best players on the floor, the Redeem Team was compiled to give Team USA the best chance to win against the constantly improving rest of the world, totally different scenario. Regardless of the 3 year plan, this team wasn't as openly perused by all players like the Dream Team so I think it's somewhat of an incomplete and unfair discussion. Josh Smith would eat up those European players, he'd be the best player in the tournament against those guys if he was there, and if the team was picked today I'd sure as heck hope he'd be there over flippin' Tayshaun. Things have changed too much, hence why the Dream Team will never be matched. Unless of course a few more Durant's come into the league, then it's all over.

I'm going to go ahead and presume that "Josh Smith would have been the best player in the tournament" was strictly meant as hyperbole.  While Smith would have been an interesting addition to this team, I'm doing okay with LeBron and a few others.

-sw

[wdleehi]

I think the real point to be made is the Redeem Team is quite a ways away from the best team that could be fielded vs. the Dream Team, aside from C.L. A team without guys like KG, Paul and/or Ray, possibly Shaq, Josh Smith, Iverson, T Mac and a host of others is an incomplete team. The Dream Team was compiled to put the best players on the floor, the Redeem Team was compiled to give Team USA the best chance to win against the constantly improving rest of the world, totally different scenario. Regardless of the 3 year plan, this team wasn't as openly perused by all players like the Dream Team so I think it's somewhat of an incomplete and unfair discussion. Josh Smith would eat up those European players, he'd be the best player in the tournament against those guys if he was there, and if the team was picked today I'd sure as heck hope he'd be there over flippin' Tayshaun. Things have changed too much, hence why the Dream Team will never be matched. Unless of course a few more Durant's come into the league, then it's all over.

I'm going to go ahead and presume that "Josh Smith would have been the best player in the tournament" was strictly meant as hyperbole.  While Smith would have been an interesting addition to this team, I'm doing okay with LeBron and a few others.

-sw

NBA to have the best players and best chance would have to add players like Duncan, KG and...   I am not sure what C to put in there.






Howard would be worked over by Ewing, Robinson and Malone.  There are just not that many big men like this in the league anymore. 

[davemonsterband]

I think the real point to be made is the Redeem Team is quite a ways away from the best team that could be fielded vs. the Dream Team, aside from C.L. A team without guys like KG, Paul and/or Ray, possibly Shaq, Josh Smith, Iverson, T Mac and a host of others is an incomplete team. The Dream Team was compiled to put the best players on the floor, the Redeem Team was compiled to give Team USA the best chance to win against the constantly improving rest of the world, totally different scenario. Regardless of the 3 year plan, this team wasn't as openly perused by all players like the Dream Team so I think it's somewhat of an incomplete and unfair discussion. Josh Smith would eat up those European players, he'd be the best player in the tournament against those guys if he was there, and if the team was picked today I'd sure as heck hope he'd be there over flippin' Tayshaun. Things have changed too much, hence why the Dream Team will never be matched. Unless of course a few more Durant's come into the league, then it's all over.

I'm going to go ahead and presume that "Josh Smith would have been the best player in the tournament" was strictly meant as hyperbole.  While Smith would have been an interesting addition to this team, I'm doing okay with LeBron and a few others.

-sw

Lebron's pretty good, haha. I hear you, but Lebron has to play with some restraint to be fully effective, Josh Smith doesn't, and with the pace of play in the Olympics he'd be throwing it down, and knocking other players' shots down, ALL game long. Skill wise, no, of course not, game changing wise, against the competition they're facing, he truly would be a force. Just like Larry said to Dan Patrick about Charles being their most effective player because of his size I think Smith's blend of athleticism and skill, especially defensively, would be massive for the Redeem Team. Look at what he did to the C's when things turned to anarchy in the playoffs, in the Olympics it would be a major exaggeration of just that, and he would appear unstoppable...so I think.

[jgod213]

now i would never knock larry legend, but the matchup of pippen/mullin/bird versus lebron james and 'mello is tough

Anthony doesn't belong in the discussion with any of the other 4.  Or anybody else on the 92 team other than Laettner.  Like the situation with Howard, the messiah would have to play 48 minutes and the three you mentioned would wear him out.

Hey, i don't like the guy either, but let the numbers speak for themselves...

That's the problem, people don't want to "discuss" these matchups because people don't WANT to picture todays players competing against players of old.

let's compare stats of pippen/mullin/anthony for the '92 and '08 seasons:

Pippen: 19 ppg, 8 boards, 6 assts 2 steals, 3 to's          47% from the field, 24% from 3.
Mullin: 26 ppg, 5.5 boards, 3.5 assts, 2 stls, 2.5 to's,    52% from the field, 36% from 3.
Anthony:26 ppg, 7 boards, 3 assts, 1 steal, 3 to's          49% from the field, 35% from 3.

Compared to Pippen in this scenario, Mello is by far the more prolific scorer, problem is pippen was and will always be a more all-around player (and much better defensively).  His numbers also compare well to Mullin (who had one of his best years in '92), but will likely never be as efficient a scorer as mullin.

Remind me again why we're not even allowed to discuss this matchup? I never said 'mello would out-do his opponent if the 2 teams matchup up for a 7 game series, but that's because Pippen and Mullin complement eachother so well and are better teammates.  However, i doubt that he would of been downright embarrassed and soil himself while on the court.  At the very least, it's certainly worth discussing.

[zerophase]

i'll give some credit to the redeem team. what rules are they playing by? nba rules? if they allow hand checking, without a doubt the dream team would win. yet, i still think the redeem team under preformed with their talented roster. therefore that in itself proves something. they practiced for several summers and still underperformed. dream team wins at the end of the day, but the game would probably be closer than people would like to think... much like the usa spain game.

[2008CELTICS17]

Dream team easy? I think they beat them by a average of 8points in a 7 game series. All these dream tema members are proven.Only one of of the players on the dream team did not make a NBA finals.Who Christian L.
Chris Mullin did at the end of his days with the pacers. The New Dream team just Does not have enough bigs first of all.Jordan is still a better winner then Kobe and Lebron.

[JBcat]

Couldn't let a couple things slide.

Kobe, like Jordan, is an overrated defender.  If anyone thinks that Kobe's the best defender that Jordan would have ever seen obviously didn't watch Paul Pierce and Ray Allen light Kobe up in the Finals. 

Jordan was a 9 time first team all defensive team.  If he was overrated on defense he sure fooled alot of people.   With my own eyes I remember Jordan disrupting the game defensively just as much offensively at times.

don't try to compare players of different generations. the nba game is too different. one example of this was how mj took full advantage of the hand checking rules or rather the lack of them. it's much more physical now in the sense that although player fouls are called more often, players are much more muscular and a lot stranger.

I don't believe this.  Athletes had similar weight training you see today.  You can't say players are more muscular and stronger now.  Look at Malone, Ewing, and Barkley on that team.  They are just as strong as players today.  If we are playing international rules the game isn't much different. 

[kw10]

Couldn't let a couple things slide.

Kobe, like Jordan, is an overrated defender.  If anyone thinks that Kobe's the best defender that Jordan would have ever seen obviously didn't watch Paul Pierce and Ray Allen light Kobe up in the Finals. 

Jordan was a 9 time first team all defensive team.  If he was overrated on defense he sure fooled alot of people.   With my own eyes I remember Jordan disrupting the game defensively just as much offensively at times.

I'd also like to add to the fact that refs allow Kobe to do more handcheck than other current players (call me a hater, but you have to admit refs a re biased towards better players)

Couldn't let a couple things slide.

don't try to compare players of different generations. the nba game is too different. one example of this was how mj took full advantage of the hand checking rules or rather the lack of them. it's much more physical now in the sense that although player fouls are called more often, players are much more muscular and a lot stranger.

I don't believe this.  Athletes had similar weight training you see today.  You can't say players are more muscular and stronger now.  Look at Malone, Ewing, and Barkley on that team.  They are just as strong as players today.  If we are playing international rules the game isn't much different. 

I have to say the game is tougher to play back then, with the NBA allowing much more physicality back then.

[SShoreFan 2.0]

I think the Dream Team kills them.

C: Ewing / Robinson
PF: Barkley / Malone / Laettner
SF: Pippen / Mullin / Bird
SG: Jordan / Drexler
PG: Magic / Stockton

For comparison's sake:

C: Howard / ?
PF: Bosh / Boozer
SF: Lebron / Carmelo / Prince
SG: Kobe / Wade / Redd
PG: CP3 / Deron / Kidd

Larry was definitely in tough shape, but Pippen and Mullin were no slouches; if any player has the physical tools to defend Lebron, it's Scottie Pippen.  John Stockton was an excellent defender, and Magic could just post Chris Paul up every time down the court.  The Dream Team's big men would be absolutely dominant against the 2008 version, which has Howard and... nobody else even comparable.  And then, of course, there's Jordan.

I think the Dream Team wins in a sweep, and wins every game by 10+.

I agree. 

The dream team was an outright phenomenon for good reason.

When I read the topic header what came to my mind was The Beatles vs (lets say) Aerosmith.  Two RRHOF bands but there's no comparing the two for so many reasons.

[dark_lord]

it's much more physical now in the sense that although player fouls are called more often, players are much more muscular and a lot stranger.

i got to fully disagree with the statement that its more physical now.  yes, current players, as a whole, are far more muscular and and stronger.  however, the nba game is officiated in such a way they negate physical play.  there were far less reprocussions for "hard fouls" back in the day. 

[TitleMaster]

All right fellows, Bird's got a rough back in '92 but here's what you're missing... he can come off the bench at the SF spot. Pippen was one of the most underrated defenders and would hold his ground against anyone, including James and Anthony, for much of the game. And then, when either Mullin or Bird comes in, instant scoring off the bench (ala think 2 Vinnie the Microwaves, not one). Finally, pre-'97 Stockton could defend the point, much like the Glove in his prime so it's not like there's a hole there with Magic. And finally, the big men include: Ewing, K Malone, Robinson, and Barkley. That's more than enough firepower and defensive prowess to keep the Redeemers at bay. And finally, I'm not even including his Airness in the equation because the Dream Team doesn't even need him to beat the Redeem Squad. Drexler was no slouch at SG. With Michael on board, it's a Dream Team sweep with perhaps a one game loss due to bad officiating (just to keep the series exciting).

[Edgar]

I think the Dream Team kills them.

C: Ewing / Robinson
PF: Barkley / Malone / Laettner
SF: Pippen / Mullin / Bird
SG: Jordan / Drexler
PG: Magic / Stockton

For comparison's sake:

C: Howard / ?
PF: Bosh / Boozer
SF: Lebron / Carmelo / Prince
SG: Kobe / Wade / Redd
PG: CP3 / Deron / Kidd

Larry was definitely in tough shape, but Pippen and Mullin were no slouches; if any player has the physical tools to defend Lebron, it's Scottie Pippen.  John Stockton was an excellent defender, and Magic could just post Chris Paul up every time down the court.  The Dream Team's big men would be absolutely dominant against the 2008 version, which has Howard and... nobody else even comparable.  And then, of course, there's Jordan.

I think the Dream Team wins in a sweep, and wins every game by 10+.

I agree. 

The dream team was an outright phenomenon for good reason.

When I read the topic header what came to my mind was The Beatles vs (lets say) Aerosmith.  Two RRHOF bands but there's no comparing the two for so many reasons.

\

yup

[johnnyrondo]

The original dream team made two roster mistakes. Isiah deserved the 2nd pg spot over Stockton. Isiah was the better player and great in showcase games (like all star games). Jordan supposedly was saying he wouldn't play if Isiah was on the team though. While I think Isiah is a prick, I didn't like how Jordan gave that ultimatum. Isiah would of added a lot to the original dream team. With Magic hurt, Daly had to play Pippen as his point guard essentially.

The other big mistake was not giving a spot to Dominique Wilkins. He deserved Laetner's spot. While Nique never got a ring, he was a great star and would have been fantastic in the Olympics too. Not his fault that instead of playing with McHale, Parish, Walton, Ainge, and DJ, he had Willis, Koncak, Tree Rollins, Doc, and Wittman. Which supporting 5 would you take? While Bird was obviously the better player, I feel Nique gets too bad a rap for not winning the big one. And unlike let's say Vince Carter, who tanked his way out of town, Nique stuck it through with the Hawks. When they finally had their best chance to win the title in 1994, he was traded for a supposed upgrade in Danny Manning (even though the Hawks lead the East). Manning went on to lead the Hawks and their supporting cast to a first round loss.

So if you make those two changes, that original dream team would be SICK!  That said, obviously the redeem team was missing a couple of the NBA's current elite as well (KG and Duncan).