Ron Artest continues to be an embarassment

[RAcker]

Artest is rapidly approaching the Tyson Zone, if he hasn't already. The trade hasn't even become offical yet and he is already starting problems there.

The journey to Tysonville will be complete when he threatens to anally rape a journalist at a press conference, bites someone's ear off during a game, says he's going to eat an opponent's children and gets a nice 1/2 face tattoo.

[cordobes]

Well, he's right. I don't think Artest's goal was to associate all the black people with "ghetto culture", Roy, although his terrible phrasing didn't help. I think Artest was trying to say something in the lines of "Yeah, Yao played with black guys, some of them act ghetto, but you know what? They aren't ghetto, or at least they aren't as ghetto as I am".

And of course there is a "ghetto culture", shared by many black sportsmen, musicians, etc.

If that was his intent, I still have issues with the "I'm ghetto and proud of it" mentality.  Guys who assault others, don't feed their pets, and beat their girlfriends don't have the right to blame it on "culture".  Those things are criminal acts, not a heritage to be celebrated and lauded.

Oh, I agree. By no means I was endorsing cultural relativism, quite the opposite. Ghetto culture should be condemned and not socially tolerated or accepted. But that doesn't happen much, unfortunately. I think the problem breeds from the oversensitivity that transforms any criticism of "social and group cultures" related or shared mostly by individuals from ethnic or religious minorities (or even any view or belief which stands in opposition to the perceived "establishment"), prejudice and social heresy. The same logic that makes a commercial campaign displaying pictures of dunks homophobic. Not an American issue, for that matter: if someone in Europe says that some "cultural norms" practiced mostly by Muslims, like, say, female genital excision, are unacceptable, the bien pensant talking heads will raise accusing the poor fool of being a racist reactionary Christian supremacist or something. Heck, Andrew Bogut was accused of being a veiled racist just because he said that many American athletes love jewelry and fast cars and struggle to be financially and morally responsible, especially those with ghetto upbringings.

So, of course that with this kind of public environment, guys like Artest can feel comfortable being apologetic and proud about their actions, mindset and moral views. I'm pretty sure that if some hip-hop music which blatantly endorses violence, sexism, immorality or racism faced the same kind of social reprovement that Johnny Rebel songs deservedly get, instead of playing time in major music broadcasts, he wouldn't be so comfortable to proudly reclaim his "ghetto heritage".

[Birdbrain]

Artest is rapidly approaching the Tyson Zone, if he hasn't already. The trade hasn't even become offical yet and he is already starting problems there.

The journey to Tysonville will be complete when he threatens to anally rape a journalist at a press conference, bites someone's ear off during a game, says he's going to eat an opponent's children and gets a nice 1/2 face tattoo.

Yeah I'm not sure even Ron Ron will ever make it to Tyson Zone.  I never really thought Ron was that bad of guy just a tad slow with the brain a child.

[jdub1660]

If Yao had made those comments about Artest while he was on another team...then fine. But they're team mates now and Yao is still ..(whats the word I'm looking for) ...uncultureated? What I'm trying to say is that Yao doesn't know the right thing to say here. You've got a new team mate(great baller w/ a checkered past) coming to your team to help YOU out. YOU(or Yao) w/ or w/o Mcgrady healthy can't get out of the 1st round. Take what help you can get and make it work, and support your new team mate. A comment like that might have been more appropriate say it happened 3 months from now after Artest causes locker room issues. Great way for Yao to start off the team chemistry...

[Birdbrain]

If Yao had made those comments about Artest while he was on another team...then fine. But they're team mates now and Yao is still ..(whats the word I'm looking for) ...uncultureated? What I'm trying to say is that Yao doesn't know the right thing to say here. You've got a new team mate(great baller w/ a checkered past) coming to your team to help YOU out. YOU(or Yao) w/ or w/o Mcgrady healthy can't get out of the 1st round. Take what help you can get and make it work, and support your new team mate. A comment like that might have been more appropriate say it happened 3 months from now after Artest causes locker room issues. Great way for Yao to start off the team chemistry...

Hmmmm.. where to start.

Let's see more than likely a some reporter asked him about Ron Ron's cage match in Detroit and he answered it exactly like any reasonably sane person would. So I'll be holding out hope Yao never understands what you assume sticking up for a teammate means.  And the fact Artest felt the need to justify his insane actions makes Yao's comments even more on the mark.

[hwangjini_1]

Well, he's right. I don't think Artest's goal was to associate all the black people with "ghetto culture", Roy, although his terrible phrasing didn't help. I think Artest was trying to say something in the lines of "Yeah, Yao played with black guys, some of them act ghetto, but you know what? They aren't ghetto, or at least they aren't as ghetto as I am".

And of course there is a "ghetto culture", shared by many black sportsmen, musicians, etc.

If that was his intent, I still have issues with the "I'm ghetto and proud of it" mentality.  Guys who assault others, don't feed their pets, and beat their girlfriends don't have the right to blame it on "culture".  Those things are criminal acts, not a heritage to be celebrated and lauded.

well said. does everyone from the ghetto behave this way? does everyone from a nice, rich "culture" behave civily and with decorum?

while culture certainly helps frame behavior and teach patterns of actions and responses, it takes more than just this to explain a person's behavior.

as was brought out in an earlier thread about artest, when the celtics were possibly going to acquire him, artest has no desire to change who he is or what he does. until he wants to change, he wont and you can keep expecting the same behavior and same results from him.

he is a thug and some elements in a culture may encourage thuggery and thereby exacerbate him being a thug. but ultimately we also have to hold him responsible for his actions sometime. obviously he doesnt.

[Amonkey]

Oh, I agree. By no means I was endorsing cultural relativism, quite the opposite. Ghetto culture should be condemned and not socially tolerated or accepted. But that doesn't happen much, unfortunately. I think the problem breeds from the oversensitivity that transforms any criticism of "social and group cultures" related or shared mostly by individuals from ethnic or religious minorities (or even any view or belief which stands in opposition to the perceived "establishment"), prejudice and social heresy. The same logic that makes a commercial campaign displaying pictures of dunks homophobic. Not an American issue, for that matter: if someone in Europe says that some "cultural norms" practiced mostly by Muslims, like, say, female genital excision, are unacceptable, the bien pensant talking heads will raise accusing the poor fool of being a racist reactionary Christian supremacist or something. Heck, Andrew Bogut was accused of being a veiled racist just because he said that many American athletes love jewelry and fast cars and struggle to be financially and morally responsible, especially those with ghetto upbringings.

So, of course that with this kind of public environment, guys like Artest can feel comfortable being apologetic and proud about their actions, mindset and moral views. I'm pretty sure that if some hip-hop music which blatantly endorses violence, sexism, immorality or racism faced the same kind of social reprovement that Johnny Rebel songs deservedly get, instead of playing time in major music broadcasts, he wouldn't be so comfortable to proudly reclaim his "ghetto heritage".

That was a great post and I gave you a TP for it.  I agree with you, how "ghetto culture" is automatically associated with black culture, so if we as a society, criticize ghetto culture, then there'll be guys like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton saying we are criticizing black culture.  At this point, I think we are at a crossroad.  There are many people that believe that we do have every right to criticize this culture that promotes criminal behavior (both white and black people), but there are just as many people that are quick to connect to black culture and change the paths of the argument.  Maybe my part doesnt really make sense, but you said it that much better.

PS. Random thing, but USA is playing in Macau, China, a Las Vegas type of place where it was owned by the Portuguese up until recently.  This means that the primary language in this area is Portuguese.  I am really curious of knowing their dialect.  Portuguese speak very differently than Brazilians (like me) and Cape Verdean is very different than my portuguese, but can you imagine the accent that this asian territory might come up with.

[kw10]

PS. Random thing, but USA is playing in Macau, China, a Las Vegas type of place where it was owned by the Portuguese up until recently.  This means that the primary language in this area is Portuguese.  I am really curious of knowing their dialect.  Portuguese speak very differently than Brazilians (like me) and Cape Verdean is very different than my portuguese, but can you imagine the accent that this asian territory might come up with.

I go to Macao occasionally, and their official language is Cantonese (same as Hong Kong). There might be a few Portugese around, a few Portugese cuisines and businesses, but a lot of people don't speak Portugese.

[ACF]

Look at what being "ghetto"
got Michael Vick. Thank goodness
Artest didn't end up in green...

[wdleehi]

Ron Artest is the biggest embarassment in the NBA.

I don't even know if he makes the top 5

-The thugster has a much longer criminal record than Artest and is an equally accomplished racist brain-dead rap "artist"

-Anthony promotes the non reporting of violent crimes and is a much more accomplished driver than Artest.

-Kidd seems to have a real affectionate streak with women and a tendency to not give his best effort.

-Tank Carter bragged about tanking to force a trade.  At least Artest gives maximum effort no matter what uniform he's wearing.

-Tracy O'Grady bragged about tanking to force a trade.  At least Artest gives maximum effort no matter who's uniform he's wearing.

-Jermaine O'Neal plays when he feels like it and embarasses himself and the NBA every time he spouts his racist opinions on the NBA.

-Artest is about half as much an embarassment as the NBA's fraudulent officiating has become.

-Zach Randolph is the Pacman Jones of the NBA.

-Isiah Thomas, anyone?

I guess Artest makes the top 10

Artest is number one.


Gets hit by a beer.  Charges into the stands and attacks a guy still holding his beer.  Attacks the wrong guy. 



Completely destroyed a title contending teams season.  Put that franchise on a downward spiral. 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Wow, I love how everyone is so busy condemning ghetto culture that the fact that this is a complete non-issue completely went over your heads.

Read up:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3513504

He was actually very classy about it - he put his new teammate's pride ahead of his own and owned up that he made some mistakes in the past.  Artest is a smart guy and if he can keep his emotions in control - which he has done remarkably well for the past 4 years - the Rockets can take it to the next level.  Artest might not be the best role model when it comes to reactions to beer being thrown at you, but he plays the game beautifully and has my respect for that and the way he handled Yao's comments. 

I hope that you take the time to get off your high horses and read the latest updates.  If Yao can put it past him, can't you as well?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3515347

[ACF]

Good article.

I sincerely hope that when we
hear of Artest, it's going to
be about his b-ball skills.
It's just hard to draw a line
between how you behave on court
and then off the court.
I don't think anyone here are up
on high horses.
If we're talking "ghetto culture"
we must include hip hop. I don't
listen to many hip hop acts these
days. Mostly (I'll stress mostly)
it's about the bling, "hoes" and guns.
I really don't care for that.
If someone wants to listen to that, then fine.
Just don't force me to do it.
I'm still a big fan of De La Soul,
A Tribe Called Quest and the Beastie Boys.
You know, people who talk about being
positive and spread a feel-good message.
Instead of talking about how many wrongs
that have been done to them and lashing
out against the world.
I think that that Artest "ghetto quote" might
not have been what he meant exactly.
But as a public person and one that has
had his share of problems, he should be
more careful the next time he opens his
mouth.

But again, let's hope Artest can make us
remember him for his skills on the court
and nothing else.

In true hip hop fashion:
No disrespect, my man, peace and I'm out.

[wdleehi]

Wow, I love how everyone is so busy condemning ghetto culture that the fact that this is a complete non-issue completely went over your heads.

Read up:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3513504

He was actually very classy about it - he put his new teammate's pride ahead of his own and owned up that he made some mistakes in the past.  Artest is a smart guy and if he can keep his emotions in control - which he has done remarkably well for the past 4 years - the Rockets can take it to the next level.  Artest might not be the best role model when it comes to reactions to beer being thrown at you, but he plays the game beautifully and has my respect for that and the way he handled Yao's comments. 

I hope that you take the time to get off your high horses and read the latest updates.  If Yao can put it past him, can't you as well?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3515347

This has nothing to do with where Artest grew up.  This has to do with the person Artest is. 


And what Artest is is a guy that does stupid things that hurt his team. 




There are plenty of players in the NBA that grew up in the 'Ghetto' that do not act like him. 



He is making an excuse about his own behaviors and trying to blame it on where he grew up. 

[jay_jay54]

I look a little deeper into a organization involved, when  they sign players with a checkered background.Sounds like the owners of the Rockets are becoming "desparate"to bring another championship to Houston.Maybe their window of opportunity with Yao,Tracey(age,injuries) is getting more closer to closing.I think they are approaching it wrong,because players like Artest,will only hurt your organization than help it, in the end.Also,this trio,will never be considered a "BIG 3"(imo)...Houston,you are still lacking 1 of the three.

[bdm860]

I actually own a nice little piece of Ron Artest memorabilia, and I always wonder if things like this make it more valuable or less valuable, somehow I think it just gets less and less valuable  , but I still love it. 





Artest has some issues/problems, but I'm with iowa plowboy, I think there is bigger embarrassments.

And I know this is going off the topic to another issue, but I don't like how Artest is vilified for what happened in Detroit.  Artest was attacked first, the Detroit fans were attacking Pacers players, there is video proof of this, yet Artest is the villian.  Vernon Maxwel has gone into the stands and punched a fan before.  Artest didn't even do that much until the fans escalated it even further.

Eric Cantona of Manchester United went into the stands and kicked a fan in the chest. (and soccer/football fans help me out, isn't that guy still considered a hero by Manchester United fans?)

Charles Barkely has spit on an 8 year old girl during a game (by accident, but Artest also grabbed the wrong guy by accident).  Barkley has also thrown people threw bar windows.

Baseball players have fought with fans several times.  The ones that come to mind are 2004 Rangers/A's when Rangers players were fighting with A's fans and Frank Francisco of the Rangers threw a chair at some fans.  And also in 2000 when Dodgers players went into the stands to fight Cubs fans.

Fans have no right to attack players (my use of the word attack includes throwing any object at a player, including food and beer).  But also just because a fan crosses the line doesn't give a player the right to cross the line either.  What Artest did in Detroit was wrong, but he's definitely not the only athlete to have done something like this, and I actually feel for the players on issues like this.  Fans by a ticket and they think they can do anything they want, I'm all for heckling, but fans have tobe held accountable too.  It's the Detroit fans that made what happened in Detroit so bad.  What if fans started to riot when Barkley spit on the girl?  Would we be looking at Barkely differently now?

Artest has said some and done some stupid things, but I think he is unfairly vilified for the Detroit thing.