Author Topic: Olympic$ / Do you agree with Mark Cuban?  (Read 11565 times)

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Re: Olympic$ / Do you agree with Mark Cuban?
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2008, 11:19:55 PM »

Offline cordobes

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Didn't the US have to qualify through playing the America's?

And other nations from similar tournaments? That's 7 places decided by qualifiers.

Then you have the wild card tournament to round it out.

You only have the host and previous Champion automatically qualify. I think that's right, not 100% sure.

Yes, but FIBA Americas Championship is the equivalent to the Eurobasket, it's not exactly a qualifying tournament. They're legit international tournaments. I don't think FIBA should allow teams to by-pass continental tournaments, qualifying tournaments and still have a place guaranteed in the Olympics. The World and Olympic Champs, okay, maybe even the finalists from both competitions, but why a team like the US?

Re: Olympic$ / Do you agree with Mark Cuban?
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2008, 11:29:17 PM »

Offline Who

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Didn't the US have to qualify through playing the America's?

And other nations from similar tournaments? That's 7 places decided by qualifiers.

Then you have the wild card tournament to round it out.

You only have the host and previous Champion automatically qualify. I think that's right, not 100% sure.

Yes, but FIBA Americas Championship is the equivalent to the Eurobasket, it's not exactly a qualifying tournament. They're legit international tournaments. I don't think FIBA should allow teams to by-pass continental tournaments, qualifying tournaments and still have a place guaranteed in the Olympics. The World and Olympic Champs, okay, maybe even the finalists from both competitions, but why a team like the US?
Automatic qualification for everyone who makes the quarter finals or makes the round before the quarters. Make everyone below that qualify.

I'll be quite happy if we never have an America's competition again or the Asia/Africa/Oceanic games. Eurobasket seems a bit different because of the higher number of quality teams/players and higher level of interest.

If qualification isn't dependent on these other tournaments that doesn't mean those tourney's have to end. It just means you don't have to have your best players playing each year to ensure you get to go to the big dance. Let those competitions live on their merits and develop their own persona.

I'd also be quite happy dumping the world basketball champs (I know it won't happen, I'm just saying I'd be happy without it). It's a dull tournament and the Olympics is more important, there's really no need for it.

Re: Olympic$ / Do you agree with Mark Cuban?
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2008, 12:10:16 AM »

Offline cordobes

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Didn't the US have to qualify through playing the America's?

And other nations from similar tournaments? That's 7 places decided by qualifiers.

Then you have the wild card tournament to round it out.

You only have the host and previous Champion automatically qualify. I think that's right, not 100% sure.

Yes, but FIBA Americas Championship is the equivalent to the Eurobasket, it's not exactly a qualifying tournament. They're legit international tournaments. I don't think FIBA should allow teams to by-pass continental tournaments, qualifying tournaments and still have a place guaranteed in the Olympics. The World and Olympic Champs, okay, maybe even the finalists from both competitions, but why a team like the US?
Automatic qualification for everyone who makes the quarter finals or makes the round before the quarters. Make everyone below that qualify.

I'll be quite happy if we never have an America's competition again or the Asia/Africa/Oceanic games. Eurobasket seems a bit different because of the higher number of quality teams/players and higher level of interest.

If qualification isn't dependent on these other tournaments that doesn't mean those tourney's have to end. It just means you don't have to have your best players playing each year to ensure you get to go to the big dance. Let those competitions live on their merits and develop their own persona.

I'd also be quite happy dumping the world basketball champs (I know it won't happen, I'm just saying I'd be happy without it). It's a dull tournament and the Olympics is more important, there's really no need for it.

Well, yeah, I wouln't miss other continental tournaments besides Eurobasket. But no way FIBA is doing this, they make money from these tournaments, there are fans to watch them. To qualify so many teams via performance in the past Olympics would be unfair, I think. Four years is a lot of time.

In the end, I'm all for allowing the players to decide if they can handle the extra games or not. Ilgauskas never plays for Lithuania, for example. I also think that NBA teams (and European ones) should have the possibility of making contracts with clauses that would allow them to forbid their employess of playing international games. Fair solution to both parts, I think. 

Re: Olympic$ / Do you agree with Mark Cuban?
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2008, 12:49:15 AM »

Offline jdub1660

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Back to a fight of Patriotism versus your job...? I agree that we as fans love to see our NBA players play, and hate seeing them injured. That's obvious. But every athlete's dream is to be the best of the best. And as an American you're raised to be proud of where you're from. So, on a personal level in the bodies of our NBA stars, they(the ones that choose to play) are just living THEIR dream to represent their country. We can't be greedy fans and expect players to live NBA 24/7 365..It's just not right. That's like if you work in the general public such as retail, and a regular customer to your store sees you out in public elsewhere, and they expect you to stay and answer their questions about your store's products. It's rude and ridiculous. NBA player are signed for seasons if you think about it. The summer time is their off time to do whatever...Olympics, Get their degrees, spend time with the family, go out of the country for vacation..Whatever. Leave it alone. The only issue I have that I agree with Cuban is the patriotism part of seeing players like Becky Hammen(spelled wrong) and Chris Kaman go and play for countries that they have no close decent from. If your parents aren't full blooded countrymen of that team, then you don't qualify(IMO). For them to go and play just to play and say they played (and to make some more money) is wrong. Its also wrong for that country to accept them just to try and win? That's not being proud of your country to take foreigners and add them to your squad in hopes of winning. These players are crying that they weren't invited to play for the US or weren't guaranteed to make the final 12...SO! Take the hint that you might be good, but your not good enough to be considered the best of 12 in your league.
Can't stop, Rondo!

Re: Olympic$ / Do you agree with Mark Cuban?
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2008, 05:28:47 AM »

Offline cmburrill

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  Thanks for the topic, it's really sad to see the game I love so much, seen in such a different light from a man who thinks that Dirks collapse comes from his summer competition. His thoughts undoubtedly stem from the idea that Germany's success hinged on Dirk playing was moot. They could not compete regardless. Cubans business savvy is well known and was used to its fullest to describe his own personal grief to his current dilemma with Dirk. To ask someone not to play based on his potential loss is understandable. To not see the side of an athlete who is participating in the greatest sporting event in the world is unconscionable, and unscrupulous. To be asked by ones nation, to represent the people, land and ancestors would be an easy decision for most, and a difficult one for the few that decline.

Re: Olympic$ / Do you agree with Mark Cuban?
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2008, 06:30:20 AM »

Offline TrueGreen

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I think the Olympics lost it's true meaning when Professional Athletes were allowed to compete. I know many countries, in essence, used the equivalent of our professionals, but I enjoyed the olympics more when we sent college players. I do not think our Pro Basketball players should compete and to me it's just a matter of common sense. These guys beat up their bodies during their season and need time to heal. They have a great chance of getting badly injured in the Olympics because they are playing hurt when the go into it. They are being paid alot of money by their teams and we as fans want to see them play NBA ball when they are at their best. This especially applies to teams that go far into the playoffs. This is probably silly, but perhaps a compromise can be made by only letting players from NBA lottery teams compete. They are not the best players and could probably improve their skills. This would help them and their teams and would give our country representation. We'd probably lose, but I don't think the original purpose of the Olympics was to win at all costs. It was to get people from different countries to compete and get to know each other.

Re: Olympic$ / Do you agree with Mark Cuban?
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2008, 09:58:45 AM »

Offline cmburrill

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I think the Olympics lost it's true meaning when Professional Athletes were allowed to compete. I know many countries, in essence, used the equivalent of our professionals, but I enjoyed the olympics more when we sent college players. I do not think our Pro Basketball players should compete and to me it's just a matter of common sense. These guys beat up their bodies during their season and need time to heal. They have a great chance of getting badly injured in the Olympics because they are playing hurt when the go into it. They are being paid alot of money by their teams and we as fans want to see them play NBA ball when they are at their best. This especially applies to teams that go far into the playoffs. This is probably silly, but perhaps a compromise can be made by only letting players from NBA lottery teams compete. They are not the best players and could probably improve their skills. This would help them and their teams and would give our country representation. We'd probably lose, but I don't think the original purpose of the Olympics was to win at all costs. It was to get people from different countries to compete and get to know each other.

  Its lost meaning for you. To me the ancient Greeks never sent their worse athletes. It was a source of huge pride for the ridiculously competitive City States to win an event. I cant imagine  Sparta sending a weak boxer to fight against an  Athenian. The 70's were awful to watch because these crazy  Soviet clock men were playing our boysback in 72'.

Re: Olympic$ / Do you agree with Mark Cuban?
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2008, 10:42:02 AM »

Offline Schupac

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The NBA is a huge money business, and it makes its money from fans.  Do you think for a minute that fans, just in the U.S. alone, would tolerate it if the NBA attempted to stop its players from entering the Olympics?

Cuban is concerned about the financial side of this, of course.  He doesn't want to lose money by losing his players in the Olympics.  Well he would lose a lot more money if fans boycotted the games because the league was trying to do something like this.


Re: Olympic$ / Do you agree with Mark Cuban?
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2008, 12:17:37 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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I used to love the Olympics, but I agree with Cuban and I'll go one step further and say they should cancel them and start over.

For this country, it's all about corporate America, not about the pure competition of the world's greatest amateur athletes.  I'm not opposed to the pro's being there btw -- if corporate America would just back and off instead of viewing the Olympics as the competition for the next great pitch person for their products.

Also, with the Soviet Union and Iron Curtain gone, there is no more bad guy -- unless you want to say it's us -- backed by corporate America.

The Olympics have totally lost their way though I may watch the basketball to see if someone can knock us off.  But this 'boy ain't America great' concept pushed by our Olympic sponsors just has to go.  We've taken the place of the the hard line communist countries as the one everyone loves to beat. 

Re: Olympic$ / Do you agree with Mark Cuban?
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2008, 12:55:46 PM »

Offline TrueGreen

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Quote
cmburrill:  Its lost meaning for you. To me the ancient Greeks never sent their worse athletes. It was a source of huge pride for the ridiculously competitive City States to win an event. I cant imagine  Sparta sending a weak boxer to fight against an  Athenian.
These were not Professonials. Our boxers and swimmers aren't professional. Etc. I'm just say that allowing Pros to play in some of the sports has ruined it for me and taken away the true meaning of the Olympics.

Re: Olympic$ / Do you agree with Mark Cuban?
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2008, 01:00:01 PM »

Offline eja117

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I think the Olympics and college sports are in a weird situation now, because some people are making money and others aren't. For example UNC, Duke, and little Farleigh Dickinson are in three totally different money situations. UNC and Duke athletes generate millions and don't get a penny, but in a manner of speaking it is more fair for the UNC player to not get paid than the Dukie cause UNC is a public school. No profit. FDU is also private, and if they get to the Tourney that's awesome, but FDU makes probably no money on their program, and probably operate at a loss. Maybe the fairest way would be to take all the money that college ball generates and give each player a share. It's not right for TV guys and the whole rest of the world to earn billions and the players get demonized for taking gifts or something. That's why I hope Brandon Jennings is very successful in Europe.

The Olympics are similar, but again I don't think Moldova makes nearly as much as the US. Again maybe all players could get a share. If it's really about peace yadda yadda then they need to donate all profit to UNICEF and Mother Terresa's nuns and whatnot. That's not happening.

High school sports are up next. Ever wonder how much money is generated by the MCDs All America game? I do.

Re: Olympic$ / Do you agree with Mark Cuban?
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2008, 01:29:55 PM »

Offline cordobes

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Quote
cmburrill:  Its lost meaning for you. To me the ancient Greeks never sent their worse athletes. It was a source of huge pride for the ridiculously competitive City States to win an event. I cant imagine  Sparta sending a weak boxer to fight against an  Athenian.
These were not Professonials. Our boxers and swimmers aren't professional. Etc. I'm just say that allowing Pros to play in some of the sports has ruined it for me and taken away the true meaning of the Olympics.

In the Olympics, the only sport in which no professionals compete is boxing (and most of them are faux amateurs, they get paid to compete). In every other sport, the best athletes in the world are playing (besides soccer, mostly because soccer is so big). Where did you get the idea that swimmers aren't professionals?

If allowing pros to play has ruined it for you, it's has been a long time since you enjoyed the Olympics. When the modern Olympics games were created, only amateurs were allowed because of elitist reasons. The "professionals" were basically sports instrutors or gymn teachers, and Coubertin didn't want people who needed sports to make a living (or, in fact, that needed to work to make a living) playing in the Olympics. I think that mindset is clearly outdated.

The Olympics are great because the best athletes in the world are competing. Who would want to see some random guys running the 100 meters in 14 seconds?

And you wouldn't be able to send college players to the basketball tournament anyway, because they wouldn't qualify. And the Olympics baskebtall tournament without the US would be a shame, like the table tennis without the chineses or the soccer without the brazilians.

I really don't see what's the problem with allowing the players and the teams to decide by themselves.

Re: Olympic$ / Do you agree with Mark Cuban?
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2008, 11:25:54 AM »

Offline iowa plowboy

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Cuban couldn't be more correct.  Cuban is a scumbag but he is absolutely right about this.  The olympics haven't been about "national pride" in decades.

Owners assume 100% of the risk for an event that has at least as good a chance of being fixed as it doesn't.

Respectfully, Schupac:  If they're not boycotting NBA games which are fixed via the dumpstering of the rulebook,   I doubt the "fans" would boycott the NBA if the NBA was smart enough not to compromise their biggest draws in a meaningless, corrupt glorified pickup game.

   

Re: Olympic$ / Do you agree with Mark Cuban?
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2008, 12:01:44 PM »

Offline Schupac

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iowa plowboy - I disagree.  If there is one thing that can hurt a business in this country it is being viewed us unpatriotic.

If the NBA wouldn't let it's players compete for national pride, the media, and soon after the fans, would tear it apart.

Re: Olympic$ / Do you agree with Mark Cuban?
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2008, 12:26:38 PM »

Offline iowa plowboy

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There's nothing patriotic about watching a tattoo-laden thug like Carmelo Anthony parading around in a pickup game.  I see no correlation between a person who promotes criminal activity and national pride.  This should be an opportunity for our best young amateur players to showcase themselves.  Not a forum for Anthony's and Kidd's character rehabilitation and yet another showcase for Kobe, the reluctant angry player  ;D, and the primadonna.  The owners assume 100% of the risk for this collossal stupidity in the name of "patroitism".
 
I'll venture a pretty safe guess that the vast majority of NBA fans could care less about this meaningless event.  However, if the primadonna, Bryant, or any other prominent NBA player on that (or any other "olympic" roster) goes down and their team goes from contending to mediocre......there is nothing the media is going to be able to do to get them to buy tickets.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 12:41:34 PM by iowa plowboy »