Ray Allen to Chicago idea?

[Jay_Diggles]

Ray-Scal-Giddens and Powe or Baby

Hindrich and Deng....

The only problem I see is Hindrich and Deng can not create there own shot as well as Ray Allen.  

Rondo/Hinrich/Pruitt
T Allen/Hinrich/House
PP/Deng
KG/Powe/Deng/Walker
Perk/Obryant  

[bogg]

Deng isn't happening, people need to accept that fact.

1) Deng is Chicago's top priority, they have a glut of guards, but only really have Deng or Nocioni as starting forwards, and Nocioni is a stretch.

2) If you make the deal for Deng, then Pierce becomes this teams' spot up shooter because Deng doesn't have a good enough outside game. Problem is, Deng doesn't have the midrange game that Pierce has either, so an offense that wasn't spectacular to begin with is further hampered. We're better off taking Gordon, who has lower value but is a better fit, and getting another productive player. We would be worse off in a Deng/Allen swap because Luol and Pierce don't mesh well.

3) Chicago wouldn't consider Deng for Allen because they're rebuilding, and Deng is a significant piece of the equation.

[timepiece33]

Catch 22 ... Gordon is NOT good enough to warrant a Ray Allen deal AND Nocioni is overpaid for a long period of time.  He isn't additive in that deal. Ben Gordon is an adequate defender unless you take a look at him with guys with length.  Take a look at the matchups with the top teams.  He's a good scorer, but a terrible matchup against most of the top threats for the title.   

If the Bulls got rid of a terrible deal in Hughes, they have Nocioni/Sefolosha  at the SF and Allen/Gordon at the SG.  Not exactly a glut there UNLESS you are going to point to Hinrich as a SG.   

With regards to Deng's fit.  He's a good spot up shooter with some distance in his game.  He's not a 3 point shooter, but he still provides spacing.  IMO, it would be a downgrade in our overall lineup fit ... but long term, it probably has some advantages.

[Neurotic Guy]

I agree with those who don't think Deng is going anywhere.  I also tend to think that Ray Allen is gone after next year but to trade him now -- even in the face of a tempting package -- would be a dangerous gamble for Danny.  I think for Danny to gamble now on breaking up the Three is playing with fire.  If Danny stands pat (sans Posey) and the team falters next year, no resonable person could blame him for keeing the 66-win championship team together. But if they falter after breaking up the Three, even to get a young talent like Deng, Danny would endure eternal [dang]ation.

[kw10]

From the Chicago Tribune

July 17, 2008

Deng and Gordon have slightly more leverage than last summer, when they turned down five-year extension offers for $57.5 million and $50 million, respectively. They can threaten to sign one-year tender offers and become unrestricted free agents next summer, when the Bulls could lose them for nothing.

I think words around are that's exactly what they are going to do, signing a 1 yr tender and become unrestricted next year.
One thing that baffles me is that they are willing to offer Kirk what he wants and not Gorden and Deng. Keep in mind, Nocioni has a contract of between 6-8 mil per for a few years, I love Nocioni, but I would've just chucked him the full MLE and have a spare 6-8 mil per for Gordon and Deng.(assuming Nocioni's salary doesn't come out of the MLE at all-which I'm not sure if it does)

Why no love for Gordon? He is not the prototype, but the kid is good at putting the ball in the hole - I cannot think of a better sixth man for this team.

I agree with you, many people say he's a one-dimensional player, but he's one hell of a player at that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's Ray Allen or anyone like that but people underrate him. When given the chance, he did average over 25PPG in the playoffs in 06-07. He is a much better version of Eddie House.

[scootman]

or we can just keep him

[timepiece33]

You don't pay a much better version of Eddie House $8 to $12MM a year.   

I respect the guys outside shot and scoring ability.  Instant offense, but he's a liability defensively against bigger SG's and if you are a championship team ... you are going to be facing teams with guards that are a mismatch.   

[kw10]

You don't pay a much better version of Eddie House $8 to $12MM a year.   

Howabout much much much better?  hahaha
I'm not saying the bulls should, well I actually don't have an opinion on what BG should get paid. But the reason Deng didn't re-sign with the Bulls last year was because BG wouldn't re-sign, I guess it's like I'm not staying unless he's staying. So they would have to give more to BG than what he deserves if they want to keep both players.

[Who]

I think Gordon is good value at around $7mil per. I'm not sure how much he's worth above that, you'd want to be very sure about his fit next to the rest of your players to pay him more than that.

[timepiece33]

I think Gordon is good value at around $7mil per. I'm not sure how much he's worth above that, you'd want to be very sure about his fit next to the rest of your players to pay him more than that.

If we had alternate contracts to give them, I'd consider him at that price.   But we are talking Ray Allen here AND there is no way I give up Allen in a package for him as a centerpiece. 

[ACF]

or we can just keep him

YES! That's a TP.

[zerophase]

or we can just keep him

YES! That's a TP.

i agree fully.

[JBcat]

Ok, I briefly looked over the posts and the initial trade idea and I figured I must put my 2 cents in.  I'm always for thinking outside the box in terms of trades but I don't like this one at all.   The Bulls were 49-33 2 years ago and 33-49 last year.  Their overall turnover didn't change too much and Deng and Gordon who are probably are 2 out of their 3 best players had their production go down a decent amount last year.  That is a semi red flag for me for young players who should be improving little by little every year unless if there is an injury.  Remember our window for championships might only be 2 or so years with KG and Paul's age so do we keep a proven chemistry of KG, Paul, Ray together who won a title or split it up for albeit 2 talented guys but who played on a 33 win team last year???  It is a question mark if they can return to form of what they did 2 years ago.   Gordon is 25 and Deng is 23 so say if they don't reach their peak for another 2 or 3 years by then it could be too late if KG and Paul are too old.   I  am never crazy about the idea of a trade where you don't get the best player in the trade and right now I think Ray is the best player out of this proposed trade and we are playing for the present with KG and Paul's age.   Remember Ray had very similar shooting stats last year compared to the year prior where he averaged nearly 27 ppg but he played 3rd fiddle last year.  He hasn't slipped that much if at all and I think with a year to build on this team could be even better.  I still think you don't think about trading Ray until at least next offseason and if and only if you are guaranteed to get a better player in the deal.  I'm talking something like Ray, BBD, Giddens, Pruitt, (if those guys get close to their potential) a draft pick or 2 or something like that for a healthy Dwayne Wade.  I just think Gordon and Deng are lesser players than Ray is right now at this given moment which is why I wouldn't do this trade.  If KG and Paul were 26 and 27 I would think about it more.  Plus why would Chicago want Ray towards the tail end of his career and Rose at the very beginning???  It would open up cap space in 2 years but still not guarantee they can land anyone big with several other teams having cap space at that time.   It's a big risk as far as progressing your team.  If anything I think they want to grow their young core of Gordon, Deng, Rose ect together and see what happens.    In the end I think they will be signed for at least the short term.  They don't have much power as RFAs in this market.  

[KungPoweChicken]

Gordan and Deng for Ray Allen? Keep drinking that Kool Aid son.

[jdub1660]

talent wise its a decent enough trade, though i tend to agree with roy on deng.

also, where will pierce be playing after this trade? will deng come off the bench? will gordon accept being a 6th man so pirce can start at the 2?

I'd say this would be the starting lineup:

Rondo
Pierce
Deng
KG
Perk

Bench:

Pruitt (until we get another pg)
Gordon
Walker
Powe/Davis
O'Bryant

Obviously we would need to sign another pg and sf, but I think this would be a great team.

i would do this trade if chicago will take scal off our hands and give us an expiring contract.

Paxon might take Scalabrine for another expiring contract in 2010. Chicago is looking at the future.
This is probably their progected lineup for the 2010-2011 season.

Rose
Wade (he wants to play with Rose, in his hometown, and they will have lots of money to spend)
Sefolosha
Thomas
Noah

Trade Hinrich for another piece, add a few lottery picks, and this team could be young, talented, and scary.

i really hate having pierce at the 2. i don't think he's fast enough to guard sg's.

Kobe is too small to be an effective SF, so I classify him as a SG, and Pierce shut him down in game 4. Name 1 SG that Pierce can't guard...