Author Topic: Zach Randolph  (Read 11591 times)

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Re: Zach Randolph
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2008, 02:40:59 PM »

Offline Steve Weinman

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Zach Randolph, although an idiot at times, is a very good pf. Let the players play for  D'Antoni for a season, get their stock value up, then trade them when teams will offer a little more for their services.

I think it's way to big of a gamble. Forget ROI with this guy, what if he has an even worse season next year? Injury? Then the Knicks are screwed.

I think your looking at it in gambler mode and not in the safe "let's move on" mode.

Plus shedding ZR puts the team in position to Re-sign David Lee.

Couldn't agree more, Jsaad.  Here you can find my column on the matter from Sunday -- which shares many of the same sentiments.  Think you might enjoy it if you haven't caught it already.

Chief, out of curiosity, what do you like about Randolph?

-sw

Great column, Tp.

I looked at it from more an economical sense but your scouting report put it over the top


Thanks, Jsaad.  Of all the players about whom my sentiments have become fairly passionate, Randolph is near the top of the list in the wrong direction.  But if he has to get to be an NBA player, the blue and orange works fine for him in my book.  ;D

The 'circle play' detailed there has become one of my favorite anecdotes.  I wish I had a way to transmit this from my VHS (old-fashioned, I know) to the 'Net.  It really should be on YouTube somewhere.

-sw
« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 02:52:18 PM by Steve Weinman »


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Re: Zach Randolph
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2008, 02:54:03 PM »

Offline 86 Celtics

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I've never been a big ZR fan.  I would trade him straight up for a legit cheerleader...I mean dancer.  ZR, Marbury, The Knicks in general always bring me back to this video -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaVa6NHwUUg


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Re: Zach Randolph
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2008, 03:02:24 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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At least Starbury has been staying productive this off-season:

Quote
“Stephon Marbury bound off the Knicks’ team bus at Vegas’ Valley High last night - a new tattoo inscribed on his left temple. The “3″ logo found on his Starbury sneaker and apparel line is now a permanent part of his bald head.”


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Re: Zach Randolph
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2008, 03:10:16 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Does everyone just kind of accept that Randolph can't be a part of a winning team?

As bad as he is, he's still an 18 and 10 guy who shoots 46%.  And he's only 26.  Is he like the Ricky Davis of power forwards?  He was the best player on that Knicks team, right?  Not saying much, but he's still at least statistically productive?

Re: Zach Randolph
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2008, 03:19:16 PM »

Offline Steve Weinman

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Does everyone just kind of accept that Randolph can't be a part of a winning team?

As bad as he is, he's still an 18 and 10 guy who shoots 46%.  And he's only 26.  Is he like the Ricky Davis of power forwards?  He was the best player on that Knicks team, right?  Not saying much, but he's still at least statistically productive?

Depends on your definition of best, I think.  Yes, he was relatively productive, but just to name two, I'd much rather have David Lee or - gasp - Jamal Crawford than Randolph off that team.

-sw


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Re: Zach Randolph
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2008, 03:20:04 PM »

Offline cmburrill

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  Zach Randolph is a really is a Solid  Nba hoop player. A second round pick is a joke. 17 points  10 boards last year...I side with the players on the Knicks...everyone gets a Isaiah free pass.

 and check this out, courtesy of Knicks for life blog]\

Keeping tabs on Zach Randolph - particularly when the sun goes down - is now the Knicks' problem. History suggests that Knicks head coach Isiah Thomas would be well-advised not to turn off his cell phone before he goes to bed each night.

There shouldn't be, however, much of a mystery concerning Randolph's whereabouts during the day.

"He loves the gym," says Trail Blazers assistant coach Bill Bayno. "He worked his butt off for me. When Zach gets to the gym he doesn't look at the clock. He works on his game and his conditioning. He just loves to play ball."

Randolph will formally join the Knicks today and hold his first press conference - at the Greenburgh practice facility - since Thursday's stunning trade that send Channing Frye and Steve Francis to Portland for Randolph, Fred Jones and Dan Dickau.

Last week, Randolph was in Los Angeles training with Bayno, who spent the past 12 months working on Randolph's body and mind. When Bayno speaks about the 6-9, 250-pound Randolph, he paints a different picture of a player known as much for his off-the-court behavior as his vast basketball skills.

Bayno says that Randolph has matured and that his best years are still ahead of him. He talks about Randolph being a likeable guy who has made poor choices in his life and now has seen the error of his ways.

Thomas is confident he can get through to Randolph, who has a long rap sheet of offenses ranging from gun possession to assault. Randolph becomes the Knicks' most controversial acquisition since the team traded for Latrell Sprewell in January 1999.

"I've had off the court problems in my day so I know how tough it can be to manage your off the court life, especially during the season," Bayno says. "But I think Zach probably had his best year in terms of basketball (23.6 points, 10.1 rebounds) and maturing off the court."

Bayno and former Knick Monty Williams are in charge of player development for the Blazers. Bayno got his first big break in college as a grad assistant on P.J. Carlesimo's staff at Seton Hall. He eventually landed at Kansas under Larry Brown before working for John Calipari at UMass and becoming the head coach at UNLV. As a coach trying to resurrect his career, Bayno formed an immediate bond with Randolph.

"Zach is a very coachable player," Bayno said. "I wish him all the luck in the world because I really enjoyed working with him. He always wanted to work. This year we were working on his defense because offensively, he's just a scoring machine."

Randolph's greatest weakness is his inability to defend his position. In many ways he is similar to Eddy Curry: a big man who needs the ball down low. There is a feeling that Randolph and Curry will not work as a tandem because they are too similar.

"He can play with Eddy Curry," Bayno said. "He can shoot the ball from anywhere. He fancies himself as a three-point shooter but we felt he relied on it too much. But he has very good range."

Re: Zach Randolph
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2008, 03:21:47 PM »

Offline iowa plowboy

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Randolph will be the Shareef Abdur-Rahim of this era.  While not having close to Shareef's character.

Like Abdur-Rahim, Randolph will have a hall of fame career offensively statswise on perenially horrible teams.
Like Abdur-Rahim, the next time Randolph passes out of the post will be his first.
Like Abdur Rahim, the next time Randolph makes a pretense of defending will be his first.

They have nothing in common as human beings.  But they are almost carbon copies as NBA players.

Re: Zach Randolph
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2008, 03:32:33 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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At least Starbury has been staying productive this off-season:

Quote
“Stephon Marbury bound off the Knicks’ team bus at Vegas’ Valley High last night - a new tattoo inscribed on his left temple. The “3″ logo found on his Starbury sneaker and apparel line is now a permanent part of his bald head.”



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Re: Zach Randolph
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2008, 03:54:19 PM »

Offline Who

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 Zach Randolph is a really is a Solid  Nba hoop player. A second round pick is a joke. 17 points  10 boards last year...I side with the players on the Knicks...everyone gets a Isaiah free pass.
The virtue of the deal for NY is the cap space and the ability to make a run for one of the top free agents in 2010. Can't do that without shedding salary and trading Zach solves the issue in one motion. Good deal for the Knicks.

Re: Zach Randolph
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2008, 04:15:28 PM »

Offline Chief

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Zach Randolph, although an idiot at times, is a very good pf. Let the players play for  D'Antoni for a season, get their stock value up, then trade them when teams will offer a little more for their services.

I think it's way to big of a gamble. Forget ROI with this guy, what if he has an even worse season next year? Injury? Then the Knicks are screwed.

I think your looking at it in gambler mode and not in the safe "let's move on" mode.

Plus shedding ZR puts the team in position to Re-sign David Lee.

Couldn't agree more, Jsaad.  Here you can find my column on the matter from Sunday -- which shares many of the same sentiments.  Think you might enjoy it if you haven't caught it already.

Chief, out of curiosity, what do you like about Randolph?-sw

There are very few guys in this league that can consistently get easy baskets on the low block. Zach Randolph is on of them. He has been in two bad situations since he arrived in the league, 1 in Portland and 1 in NY. All I say is give him 1 year with D'Antonio and Donnie Walsh before you give him away for nothing.
Once you are labeled 'the best' you want to stay up there, and you can't do it by loafing around.
 
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Re: Zach Randolph
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2008, 05:21:35 PM »

Offline iowa plowboy

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There are very few guys in this league that can consistently get easy baskets on the low block. Zach Randolph is on of them. He has been in two bad situations since he arrived in the league, 1 in Portland and 1 in NY.

There are few guys in this league, (maybe none) at the 4 who are easier to score against.  There is no help at the 5 on the defensive end, either.  I would hardly call playing under Mo Cheeks or Nate McMillan bad situations at all.  The Knicks on the other hand.....

All I say is give him 1 year with D'Antonio and Donnie Walsh before you give him away for nothing.

I agree with this.  But I believe the result will be the same.  The Knicks have Curry, who like Randolph, could care less what happens on the defensive end.....And James, who could care less about playing at all...guzzling up payroll.  None of these three guys come close to fitting D'Antoni's system.

Re: Zach Randolph
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2008, 05:44:12 PM »

Offline Chief

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McMillian has a win/loss of 306/335 and Mo Cheeks has one of 275/272 with only a winning record in his first 2 seasons (a team he inherited from Dunleavy). Not coaches that I would be excited to play for.
Once you are labeled 'the best' you want to stay up there, and you can't do it by loafing around.
 
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Re: Zach Randolph
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2008, 06:01:19 PM »

Offline Who

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I think Nate McMillan is a great coach. Very talented.

Mo Cheeks? Meh ... lot of mistakes on his books. Not so talented, below average. Maybe he's growing into a good coach though, still his decisions always seem to come far too late, like not letting Phily run at the start of last season.

As for Zach Randolph, I'd completely agree that he's been in poor situations. His teams haven't had enough help and they haven't contained the type of players he needs alongside him to be successful.

Zach is a good lad and a useful player. He isn't a top level player. He's a good notch below being an All-Star. In the right situation he could be very effective. Clippers would be a good home for him if they were able to spend their cap room on Iggy or Deng. He'll have Kaman cleaning up his mistakes and regularly defending the top opposing big. He'll have Baron setting the table. Couple young wings with talent. And of course Mike Dunleavy who'd be a good coach for Zach, Dunleavy adores playing through the post.

Re: Zach Randolph
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2008, 06:03:11 PM »

Offline cdif911

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Randolph will be the Shareef Abdur-Rahim of this era.  While not having close to Shareef's character.

Like Abdur-Rahim, Randolph will have a hall of fame career offensively statswise on perenially horrible teams.
Like Abdur-Rahim, the next time Randolph passes out of the post will be his first.
Like Abdur Rahim, the next time Randolph makes a pretense of defending will be his first.

They have nothing in common as human beings.  But they are almost carbon copies as NBA players.

Imagine this lineup:

C: Z Randoplh
PF: SAR
SF: Shawn Marion
SG: Cory Maggette
PG: Steve Francis

5 guys with a ton of talent (though Sars and Franchise are on the decline) who will never win anything in this league... I'm sure you could build a team of 12 guys like this, Darius Miles comes to mind as a solid 6th man

When you love life, life loves you right back


Re: Zach Randolph
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2008, 06:23:37 PM »

Offline Steve Weinman

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I think Nate McMillan is a great coach. Very talented.

Mo Cheeks? Meh ... lot of mistakes on his books. Not so talented, below average. Maybe he's growing into a good coach though, still his decisions always seem to come far too late, like not letting Phily run at the start of last season.

As for Zach Randolph, I'd completely agree that he's been in poor situations. His teams haven't had enough help and they haven't contained the type of players he needs alongside him to be successful.

Zach is a good lad and a useful player. He isn't a top level player. He's a good notch below being an All-Star. In the right situation he could be very effective. Clippers would be a good home for him if they were able to spend their cap room on Iggy or Deng. He'll have Kaman cleaning up his mistakes and regularly defending the top opposing big. He'll have Baron setting the table. Couple young wings with talent. And of course Mike Dunleavy who'd be a good coach for Zach, Dunleavy adores playing through the post.

As I discussed with Soap earlier, the idea you share that Randolph could be productive under a good set of circumstances (what those are, I'm not sure) meets no dispute from me.  Soap has it right when he says that 20-10 guys don't grow on trees, and I'm sure you'd agree.  But -- in fairness to a point Soap made in a few other 'character' threads recently -- from what we know of him, a good lad?  Why?

-sw


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