Author Topic: The myth that the Celtics need a backup to Rondo who is a "true PG"  (Read 13477 times)

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Offline TradeProposalDude

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All season long and into the offseason I keep reading posts that suggest the Celtics "need" a backup PG who looks to pass first, shoot second. I understand the importance of a PG who creates for others, but the function of a PG isn't simply racking up high assist totals.

Let's look at Eddie House - yeah his handle is not that great, yeah he is a streaky shooter, but why was he effective? He did a few critical things RIGHT that was critical to our success in the playoffs (and the regular season... which Doc should have kept in mind before he brought in the cancer that is Sam Cassell). Read the following (this applies to ALL PG's, not just backups):

(1) Maintain the pace of the game by not stagnating the offense. The PG need not look for others at all times. He simply has to bring the ball up court and bring the offense to its regular set. It's crucial that players aren't just standing around - when all 5 guys are moving their feet, creating offense is much easier than if you had a PG who brought up the ball, pounded it for 15 seconds, and passed it to a guy for a lower percentage shot. PG's that fit this criteria are Jamaal Tinsley, Baron Davis, Jason Williams, etc. These are players who have talent, but they do more harm than good because they handle the ball and don't "create" for higher percentage situations. This is precisely why assists per game is the most misleading stat, in my mind, when left to decide who is the most effective PG. Being a true PG might also mean you're a ball pounder. In regards to House, he is anything but a true PG, but the offense ran smoother when he was in the game, because he played the rhythm of the game instead of making things more complicated by slowing things down and micromanaging it. I think Doc also deserves his fair share of credit for not calling too many plays, for I think playing too active of a role in the team's offense totally ruins a team's mojo, if you know what I mean.

(2)It is also important to note that any PG who looks to pass first and shoot second still may not know how to run an offense. Teams in the playoffs will expose your weaknesses and your inhibitions during the game. By that I mean, if a team senses that you don't want to shoot, they will make you. Rondo had problems with this, but overall I think he handled himself okay in the grander scheme of things. But his inconsistent play, whether we'd like to believe it or not after winning a title (we still cannot forget the stuff we were doing very wrong), and unwillingness to take the jumper and be assertive at times, led to dead possessions. House had his problems, but when he challenged the opponent to hit shots, they played us differently, and had to adjust more and therefore had more difficulties.

(3) Defend. A PG who does all the right things on one end like Steve Nash, but doesn't get the job done at the other, can hurt you in many ways as well. Staying in front of your guy and forcing turnovers is hard, but PG's who understood how to defend used it as a tool to create more high percentage opportunities at the other end. When Rondo forced like 10 steals (I know I'm exaggerating) in game 6 of the Finals, they resulted in like 5 Ray Allen wide open 3's (not an exaggeration). Bad defense allows the other team to get back quicker on defense from offense and allows them therein to control the pace of the game. Even a "true PG" may not know what it takes to impact the game.

The point of my post is to get across the idea that re-signing House is not a bad idea. Signing some bum who is considered a "true PG", would. If you do the critical things right, you could average the least number of assists per game. It really doesn't matter.

Re: The myth that the Celtics need a backup to Rondo who is a "true PG"
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2008, 10:04:05 PM »

Offline Green Mountain

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They need a backup who can dribble the ball up against pressure. Do you think they signed Cassell for his good looks?

Re: The myth that the Celtics need a backup to Rondo who is a "true PG"
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2008, 10:05:54 PM »

Offline kw10

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I agree with what you are saying TPD, Eddie House worked for us, and he's one of the best at what he does that's a FA, so why not bring him back, that's what I'm thinking.

Also I know this might not be the point of your post, but I'd still like to comment on 'true point guards'. IMO, Rajon might not be the truest, but he is a pretty 'true' point, him, deron and CP3 might just be as true a point guard as they come nowadays.
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Re: The myth that the Celtics need a backup to Rondo who is a "true PG"
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2008, 10:09:46 PM »

Offline wolfceltic215

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TP for you TPDude! I would really love to have Eddie House back (coz they can't leave the HOUSE open!), besides James Posey.. the two of them were really critical to getting Banner17 (besides the Big 3 and RR and KP43 of course)! With them back, a healthy squad, and the improvement of our picks and O'bryant, a repeat would be very possible next year.
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Re: The myth that the Celtics need a backup to Rondo who is a "true PG"
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2008, 10:10:06 PM »

Offline CelticBalla32

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I agree with Green Mountain. For me, it's not that we need a "true point guard" to back up Rondo. It's that we need a backup who we can trust handling the ball in pressure situations. Eddie, while a great shooter, isn't that guy. I love Eddie and I would certainly not be disappointed if we brought him back, but I would prefer a backup point guard that doesn't make me cringe in the backcourt.
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Re: The myth that the Celtics need a backup to Rondo who is a "true PG"
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2008, 10:24:20 PM »

Offline TradeProposalDude

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They need a backup who can dribble the ball up against pressure. Do you think they signed Cassell for his good looks?
Cassell had his problems, too. Remember when Lindsey Hunter forced two turnovers in a minute - raped Cassell both times - resulting in one layup and one dunk. I think it was game 5. Anyways House didn't have too many problems with pressure. The only guy I really never trusted with protecting the ball on the '08 Celtics team is Tony Allen. Everyone else is fair game.

And you know very well that Ray Allen and Paul Pierce handle the ball for a good portion of almost every possession they are in the game, so it's a moot point.

Re: The myth that the Celtics need a backup to Rondo who is a "true PG"
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2008, 10:24:32 PM »

Offline Cman

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I agree with Green Mountain. For me, it's not that we need a "true point guard" to back up Rondo. It's that we need a backup who we can trust handling the ball in pressure situations. Eddie, while a great shooter, isn't that guy. I love Eddie and I would certainly not be disappointed if we brought him back, but I would prefer a backup point guard that doesn't make me cringe in the backcourt.

I tend to agree.  One reason we might see Celtics not look at an Eddie House type player is that they might have that already in Pruitt -- ie: someone who can bring the ball up, but not that well, but who provides a real offensive threat.  If that is that case -- that is, if Cs expect to involve Pruitt more -- then it might make sense to have a vet on hand who can provide a different look, depending on the match up.  One thing that was clear to me during the playoffs is that one reason the Cs did well is that they were able to match up differently against different teams.  A vet PG who looks to pass first might be a nice option to have.  

In general, I am less worried about the PG situation -- Cs can offer House plenty of money, and there are plenty of vet PGs that would love the chance to compete with the Cs.  I am much more interested in how the Posey (ie: 6th man/ defender) situation works itself out.  Second to that is another backup big man (I am not comfortable with POB playing 20 mins a game to back up Perkins....).
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Re: The myth that the Celtics need a backup to Rondo who is a "true PG"
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2008, 10:29:04 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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They need a backup who can dribble the ball up against pressure. Do you think they signed Cassell for his good looks?
They signed Cassell because going into the postseason with 2 PGs is a risk. Rondo or House go down, you get to choose between Tony Allen at the point, or Ray taking up the backup PG duty and playing 45 minutes every game. You can get away with this during the regular season, but not in the playoffs.
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Re: The myth that the Celtics need a backup to Rondo who is a "true PG"
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2008, 10:39:47 PM »

Offline zerophase

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i rather have a 3rd point guard who has playing experience rather than pruitt or tony allen handling the ball if we have injuries or foul trouble.

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Re: The myth that the Celtics need a backup to Rondo who is a "true PG"
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2008, 10:50:16 PM »

Offline Green Mountain

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They need a backup who can dribble the ball up against pressure. Do you think they signed Cassell for his good looks?
Cassell had his problems, too. Remember when Lindsey Hunter forced two turnovers in a minute - raped Cassell both times - resulting in one layup and one dunk. I think it was game 5. Anyways House didn't have too many problems with pressure. The only guy I really never trusted with protecting the ball on the '08 Celtics team is Tony Allen. Everyone else is fair game.

And you know very well that Ray Allen and Paul Pierce handle the ball for a good portion of almost every possession they are in the game, so it's a moot point.
I wasn't advocating resigning Cassell. Heaven help me. What I saw in the playoffs was eddie either having to pass the ball off in the back court or the C's offense get into their set with 12 secs left on the shot clock. That's not a good way to run a half court offense. I love House, but he's a SG plain and simple. He can't be your primary ball handler when Rondo is out.

Re: The myth that the Celtics need a backup to Rondo who is a "true PG"
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2008, 11:13:58 PM »

Offline acieEarl

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It be nice to have a true back up to Rondo, but obviously we got by without one last year. It comes down to what are our best options at the price we can afford. All the free agent PGs out there are pretty much stiffs. So why not bring back House. House will never be an all star but he gets the job done when needed.

That Lakers series we didn't even need a PG, thou Rondo stepped up huge in that game 6.

Re: The myth that the Celtics need a backup to Rondo who is a "true PG"
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2008, 11:21:59 PM »

Offline liam

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If the Cavs sign Posey doesn't that leave us with West as a backup?

Re: The myth that the Celtics need a backup to Rondo who is a "true PG"
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2008, 11:26:00 PM »

Offline billysan

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Eddie House was most effective when we pushed the ball upcourt and he got his shot early in the ball rotation. When we walked the ball up, he was not as effective. I most enjoyed that Eddie forced the oppposition to change their defensive set against him because he was a lights out 3pt shooter period.

Defensively, Eddie never was a big liability IMO as we played good team defense. The guys who scored on him were going to score anyway. Deron, Billups, CP3, etc. People were worried about the defensive aspect because they didnt see a PG on our bench who was as effective as Rondo. In truth, how many in the league are?

Nice thread, TP for TPD. 8)
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Re: The myth that the Celtics need a backup to Rondo who is a "true PG"
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2008, 12:06:37 AM »

Offline footey

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If Eddie does not re-sign, we need another guy who can hit the 3 with a quick release.  No one besides Ray can as of now.  That is our biggest need.  I doubt Pruit can be expected to fill in that role.

Re: The myth that the Celtics need a backup to Rondo who is a "true PG"
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2008, 12:46:25 AM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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They need a backup who can dribble the ball up against pressure. Do you think they signed Cassell for his good looks?
Cassell had his problems, too. Remember when Lindsey Hunter forced two turnovers in a minute - raped Cassell both times - resulting in one layup and one dunk. I think it was game 5. Anyways House didn't have too many problems with pressure. The only guy I really never trusted with protecting the ball on the '08 Celtics team is Tony Allen. Everyone else is fair game.

And you know very well that Ray Allen and Paul Pierce handle the ball for a good portion of almost every possession they are in the game, so it's a moot point.
I wasn't advocating resigning Cassell. Heaven help me. What I saw in the playoffs was eddie either having to pass the ball off in the back court or the C's offense get into their set with 12 secs left on the shot clock. That's not a good way to run a half court offense. I love House, but he's a SG plain and simple. He can't be your primary ball handler when Rondo is out.

imo this issue has been way blown out of proportion due to some good defense played by an exceptional point defender in lindsey hunter. beyond that i never saw any consistent issues all season with him backing up rondo. when he needed to bring the ball up the court he did. kg would set a pick, ray or paul could bring it up, whatever. truth be told i love paul being the facilitator when eddies on the floor anyway. makes paul that much more dangerous a player. i love when eddie goes pick and roll with paul. i trust paul as de facto backup pg as much as ANYONE we could sign this offseason. i just think this is a non issue. maybe you adjust the rotation so paul comes out of the game first and when rondo is subbed out paul needs to be playing to help facilitate the offense. simple. im all for resigning eddie myself
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