As to Ray Allen Trade Ideas - an Explanation...

[jaketwice]

I think if people want to propose trade ideas they can include anyone and any team they want. I thought that was what this sight was for? I mean if someone has an idea, it does not mean you have to read it. So if I was you I would just not click on that thread.
Obviously yo do click on them so you must like to read them, even if you dont agree with them you must at least get a chuckle out og it! If you as me, If it make you luagh or smile a little who cares. The world is about opinions and choices!

I'm not opposed to trade ideas. But it's not clear to me that the people proposing Ray Allen trades understand exactly how unrealistic those ideas are. 

Surely I enjoy reading trade ideas; I just especially enjoy reading plausible trade ideas since those prompt more interesting discussions...

I'm pretty sure trading Ray Allen is a pretty unrealistic prospect.

[cordobes]

If Pierce and KG don't show signs of decline during the next season and the Bucks miss the playoffs once again, I can see a Ray for Redd trade in the next off-season, for example.

[Steve Weinman]

Excellent stuff, jake.  2x the TPs for Jake2x.  Really enjoyed your comments.

-sw

[Moranis]

1. Trade Ray Allen to the L.A. Clippers for draft picks and cap relief.

2. Sign ethier Emeka Okafor or Josh Smith with the cap room.

3. Sign Ricky Davis for mid level to play shooting gaurd 19.7ppg 5.3apg in his last year in Boston.

Benifits -  We become younger and more athletic! Love Ray but this team can win and be good longer.

Trading Ray Allen won't give you cap room to sign Okafor and Smith.

you could however trade Ray Allen for Josh Smith or Okafor in a sign and trade.

Ray Allen and Scalabrine

for

Speedy Claxton and Josh Smith (average of 13 to 14 million a year)

OR

Ray Allen and Perkins

for

Gerald Wallace and Emeka Okafor (average of 13 to 14 million a year)

In each case, though, isn't the original team better off letting their guy walk for nothing?  Ray Allen doesn't have a lot of value to a team that is young and/or rebuilding.  He's be best traded to a team: 1) that is on the verge of contention (in which case, they're likely not going to give us any players of immediate help), or 2) that has a large deal it wants to clear off of its books.

Atlanta isn't all that far away and they cut Speedy's contract in the process. 

Charlotte is actively trading Wallace (at least that is what I've heard) and Perkins is a healthier and still young center than Okafor (though clearly not the same kind of player). 

[tmcdon]

It's amazing . . . Ray Allen was an important part of the team.  Critical, if you will, in the sense that his sacrifice of touches and shots, is what opens the floor for Pierce and Garnett, and yet fans are discussing trading him after one season.  No respect for his contributions to the team and the title, and a lack of respect for the sacrifice of his personal ego and game.  Cleveland, Detroit, and even LA went to extraordinary lengths to try and shut down Ray because they highly fear and respect his shooting and scoring ability.  Aparently, as fans, we aren't that smart. 
I would not trade Ray Allen.  I stand pat and let him play out his contract. 

[Chief]

Ray Allen has been the best player on two teams in his career, Milwaukee and Seattle.

Before being traded to Boston, he averaged almost 27 Ppg.

He is an 8-time NBA All-Star: 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008.

He is a career 89% free throw shooter; 4th best in the league last year.

Ray Allen helped Rajon Rondo develop a jump shot, which prevented teams from cheating off Rondo all year, as you may recall.

Allen sacrificed more than either of the other two stars on the team in order to win a championship. Compare his FGM/A for the last year with his previous years (factoring in the times he had missed certain games) and compare his fg%; there was no drop off in efficiency, even though there was a drop off in the number of attempts per game.

I recall the C's winning at least a few playoff games because of Ray Allen's production.

Bottom line: we do not win Banner 17 without Ray Allen.

SO: if you are going to propose a trade idea, please consider equal value in exchange. Equal value considers the chemistry impact of trading him (for the younger players as well as the other two stars); it considers his production and willingness to sacrifice, and it considers how well liked he is by the Boston fan base. Finally, it considers the fact that he is 32, and is set to be paid over $30 Million for the next two seasons.

I see him as essentially un-tradeable, given that combination of factors. If you are into trade ideas, I would probably be MORE interested to see your ideas for other teams - given that we just won the title with this team and all.

But maybe that's just me...

Supporting Ray Allen is a very popular side to stand on. It rewards you with a lot of TP's from people that share the same view. But I'm scared that Celtic fans are going to be living in the 2007-2008 season for the next 10 years. I can just imagine former Celtics pg and now head coach, Sam Cassell, saying this to the fans of the struggling 2017-2018 Celtics. "Kg, Pierce, and Allen aren't going to be walking through the door. And if you expect them to walk through the door, they're going to be gray and old."

So I support Ray Allen trades, although I don't think Danny will trade him till next summer. So IMO, keep proposing them because it makes the summer more interesting. 

[Robb]

No respect for his contributions to the team and the title, and a lack of respect for the sacrifice of his personal ego and game. 

I don't mean to pick on you, yours is just the most recent of the threads that put forward this similar thought.  As one who would support a Ray Allen trade if the right option came up, this is definitely not the case for me.  Allen had a great season, they all did.  I'll never forget how this team came together and how well they played, but come October the calendar isn't going to roll back to '07.

What Ray Allen did last year isn't going to change if he is on another team next season, or any subsequent season in his career.  If the Celtics got a great offer that would benefit them in the immediate and long run, I'd be all for it.  The most important thing here is the Boston Celtics.  One of those "front of the jersey, not the back" kinda situations.

Cleveland, Detroit, and even LA went to extraordinary lengths to try and shut down Ray because they highly fear and respect his shooting and scoring ability.

I don't think "not guarding Rondo to guard a good shooter" is an extraordinary length.  Matter of fact it seems pretty simple.  I think anyone would leave Rondo open to double the shooting guard (whether it was a future HOF or not), or to put more men between KG and Pierce and the basket. 

Apparently, as fans, we aren't that smart.

Speak for yourself, dude.  I'M smart.

[CoachBo]

Another TP for Jake2X. Well said on all counts.

Internet boards do take on a kind of fantasy basketball mode in the off-season. People want to break up the club every summer - and in this board's case, bring back every player we've ever let go - because anything else is boring.

What's troubling to me is the feeling that since we won a title, it's time to junk everything. But, with the O'Blount signing and management's apparent willingness to fight James Posey down to the last nickel, the thought that management's no longer chasing a title has definitely popped into my head.

[cdif911]

as in the free market, the idea of buy low, sell high has to come into play here though

In a few years the only thing of value in Ray Allen will be his contract, and maybe some nostalgia.  I'm not saying trade him tomorrow. I'm not even saying trade him this year, but if you don't explore opportunities now, you may end up getting burned later.  If you can get a younger player with similar qualities (i.e. Michael Redd, Kevin Martin) for Ray, its silly to not entertain the idea because "We won a title last year" - sports is a business, and staying in business means making smart business decisions.  Ray's value is high right now, it will decline over the next few years, so if a forward thinking trade is made I would not be upset

[CeltsGM21]

As I wait for the dvd to come out, I've been reviewing the games we won in the finals that I have on tape (what's the use in reviewing the losses) and what I've really been re-noticing is that Ray Allen is, at many times during the games, the best player on the court.  He makes some unbelievable plays both offensively and defensively on Kobe.  Just watching it all again really makes me appreciate everything so much more, and watching Ray play is like a work of art.

I don't quite understand people even pondering the idea of trading him now or ever.  He is an integral part of why we won the championship, and I honestly don't think we could have done it without him.  I think that after winning a championship, some fans get a little complacent at times, and don't appreciate what we have right now rather than what we can get.  The big three all have 3-5 good years left in them.  Why even think about breaking that up?  Besides, it's not even worth discussing because it would never happen.  Danny is way too smart for that, which is why I trust him so much to bring us another championship no matter what.

Please, let's put this Ray Allen trading business to bed.  Thank you.

[cdif911]

 The big three all have 3-5 good years left in them.  Why even think about breaking that up?  Besides, it's not even worth discussing because it would never happen.  Danny is way too smart for that, which is why I trust him so much to bring us another championship no matter what.

Please, let's put this Ray Allen trading business to bed.  Thank you.

and what happens after those 3-5 years?  I totally appreciate the Celtics championship - it was amazing, I'm still super happy about it.  Call me selfish, but I don't want to wait another 22 years for one =) if moving Ray Allen helps us create a longer dynasty, you have to be willing to talk about it.  I gaurantee you Danny Ainge would move Ray today if the right deal came up.  He's way too smart not to.

[indeedproceed]

I think if people want to propose trade ideas they can include anyone and any team they want. I thought that was what this sight was for? I mean if someone has an idea, it does not mean you have to read it. So if I was you I would just not click on that thread.
Obviously yo do click on them so you must like to read them, even if you dont agree with them you must at least get a chuckle out og it! If you as me, If it make you luagh or smile a little who cares. The world is about opinions and choices!

I'm not opposed to trade ideas. But it's not clear to me that the people proposing Ray Allen trades understand exactly how unrealistic those ideas are. 

Surely I enjoy reading trade ideas; I just especially enjoy reading plausible trade ideas since those prompt more interesting discussions...

I'm pretty sure trading Ray Allen is a pretty unrealistic prospect.

I don't know if trading Ray Allen is any more or less unrealistic than trading Scal or BBD/Powe for anything. Us making any trades with our current roster make-up seems pretty unrealistic. I've been pretty vocal about my views on not trading ray, but mostly its because I think people overvalue other teams' opinions of him and undervalue his own contributions to our own squad.

That shouldn't stop people from posting ideas, its just that sometimes one persons' view of the situation is in direct contrast to anothers'. They have as much right however to post those things as others. I also beleive it firmly opens them up for critique, but like Roy said, anyone who just replies with "This trade is stupid" to me is way more out of line than the guy who wants to trade ray allen for Raef LaFrentz and Wally Szcerbiak.

[Calli]

as in the free market, the idea of buy low, sell high has to come into play here though

In a few years the only thing of value in Ray Allen will be his contract, and maybe some nostalgia.  I'm not saying trade him tomorrow. I'm not even saying trade him this year, but if you don't explore opportunities now, you may end up getting burned later.  If you can get a younger player with similar qualities (i.e. Michael Redd, Kevin Martin) for Ray, its silly to not entertain the idea because "We won a title last year" - sports is a business, and staying in business means making smart business decisions.  Ray's value is high right now, it will decline over the next few years, so if a forward thinking trade is made I would not be upset

Can't the same be said for any of the big 3?  Is Pierce's value ever going to be any higher than it is now?  How about KG?  Why not trade them too for younger players that can help get the Celtics in the playoffs 6-7 years down the road.  Of course, the team wouldn't win any championships, but what the heck, we'd be selling high and buying low.  And I agree with some of the other posts here, Ray Allen's value and contribution to this team is being vastly underappreciated.

I guess I've also never understood the "sports is a business" perspective coming from fans.  If I'm the owner or the GM, then yes, it is a business.  But as a fan, I don't think of it that way.  For me, it's an emotional investment, not a business transaction.  My local supermarket is a business -- and guess what?  I don't know nor care who works there; who does well and who doesn't.  And I certainly don't carve out 3 hours out of my evenings 82+ times a year to watch them stock shelves.  Maybe I'm an idealist, but I want my team to do well while comprised of good people.  I want to take pride in the players, I want them to represent me well; my city/region well, etc.  And finally, if given a choice between winning one championship with a Ray Allen or winning two with a Stephen Jackson, I'll take the one with Ray any day of the week.

[cdif911]

I guess I've also never understood the "sports is a business" perspective coming from fans.  If I'm the owner or the GM, then yes, it is a business.  But as a fan, I don't think of it that way.  For me, it's an emotional investment, not a business transaction.  My local supermarket is a business -- and guess what?  I don't know nor care who works there; who does well and who doesn't.  And I certainly don't carve out 3 hours out of my evenings 82+ times a year to watch them stock shelves.  Maybe I'm an idealist, but I want my team to do well while comprised of good people.  I want to take pride in the players, I want them to represent me well; my city/region well, etc.  And finally, if given a choice between winning one championship with a Ray Allen or winning two with a Stephen Jackson, I'll take the one with Ray any day of the week.

Not sure where Stephen Jackson came from but hey...

So lets use your supermarket analogy.  Yes you may not care where your food comes from or the management decisions your local Stop N Shop makes. But, what happens when they mismanage so poorly, or don't think for the future, and all of a sudden you don't have a Supermarket anymore, or prices are so high that you can't afford your necessities anymore.  Then you get an emotional attachment.

I never understood why people could be so negative about the Celtics in the last 10-15 years that I've been a fan.  I wasn't a part of the 86 title team, I didn't know what it was like to have a championship come home.  Now I understand.  I don't want this team to have a 3 year burst then stink for the next 20.  I love Ray Allen don't get me wrong, but I think of the big 3, he's going to be the 1st to be ineffective.  His contract also expires first.  Two reasons why I think he is getting the most attention as far as should be traded first.  The problem is if we don't trade him, we have no cap flexibility, because we'll still be over once he's gone, thus won't be able to sign a young up and coming player.  He will need to be traded at some point, or this team will be one step closer to miring in ineffectiveness we all experienced in the ML Carr and Rick Pitino eras.  I for one don't want that.  I want the grocery store to remain open with competitive prices.  You're right, it doesn't matter if Billy rings me up or Maura, as long as someones there to do the job well.

[soap07]

And finally, if given a choice between winning one championship with a Ray Allen or winning two with a Stephen Jackson, I'll take the one with Ray any day of the week.

The problem with this is that we, as fans, do not truly know the players personally. It's tough to subjectively judge who is a good guy and who is not. For all we know, Ray goes home and kicks the dog. How do you know that Jackson isn't a good person at heart? How do you know a player that seems like a good person actually is one? What about players that seem to be good people but cheat on-field (ie. Andy Pettite/Marvin Harrison)?

I'll take the championships. Certain players are easier to root for than others. But do you care that Posey got a DUI in the offseason before this past season? What about numerous reports of Garnett punching out teammates in practice? As fans, we don't know the players for real so we should treat the sport the same that players do: a business.