Robert Parish was not a "stiff"

[Roy Hobbs]

Okay, enough is officially enough.  I have now seen at least five different members make the joke about how "the last stiff of a big man we picked up from Golden State worked out okay, didn't he?"

Robert Parish was not a stiff.  Not in Golden State.  Not ever.  To put him in the same breath as O'Bryant is an insult to Parish's legacy.

Let's look at the numbers of these two lottery picks in their time in Golden State:

Parish (four seasons):

1977: 9.1 ppg / 7.1 rpg / 50.3% / 1.2 bpg in 18.0mpg
1978: 12.5 ppg / 8.3 rpg / 47.2% / 1.5 bpg in 24.0 mpg
1979: 17.2 ppg / 12.1 rpg / 49.9% / 2.9 bpg in 31.7 mpg
1980: 17.0 ppg / 10.9 rpg / 50.7 % / 1.6 bpg in 29.4 mpg

O'Bryant (two seasons):

2006: 1.9 ppg / 1.3 rpg / 31.3% / 0.5 bpg in 7.4 mpg
2007: 1.5 ppg / 1.2 rpg / 55.2% / 0.4 bpg in 4.1 mpg

Parish was in the top-ten in the NBA in his last two seasons in Golden State, and was #4 in blocks in 1979.  He led the NBA in "defensive rebound percentage" in 1979, and was second in 1980 (that's the percentage of available rebounds you get to when you're on the floor).  According to basketball-reference.com, he also had the top "defensive rating" in the entire NBA in 1980.

O'Bryant averaged almost as many personal fouls per game (1.6, 1.1) as he did points.  Since 1995, only one non-injured top-ten player has played fewer minutes in his two seasons, Saer Sene (hat tip to HF & P).  He also has the distinction of being the first lottery pick to play in the D-League, and his coach and general manager have both questioned his desire and work ethic.

I'm not sure where this "comparison" comes from, but it's ridiculous.  Give O'Bryant whatever label you want, but he and Parish weren't remotely, in any manner, similar.  Golden State just made a terrible, terrible trade, trading Parish and the #3 for the #1.  Parish wasn't the same player in Golden State that he was in Boston, but he was a borderline all-star and a top defensive center.  O'Bryant chews gum on the bench.  Let's not lose our minds here, please.

[SShoreFan 2.0]

The Chief was dominant on both ends of the court.

The man simply just went out and did his job every single night. 

There's a reason why he's in the HOF, he was simply one of the top 2-3 centers in his era (Jabbar being the best).

I worked with Robert a few times in 1990 on a project ML was doing, he was personable, funny and extremely engaging.  I am sorry his post career was marred early on by a few legal issues.

[Andy Jick]

come on, roy...you know that a lot of the posters here were never old enough to see parish play.  they see/hear these sound bites and then want to make comments about something they know little to nothing about.

having been old enough to see parish play, even in the early stages of his career, he was a GREAT center who was extremely reliable.  when the chief took a shot you felt confident it was going in...when there was a big game to be played, you knew he'd show up huge.

anyone who is comparing o'bryant to parish is simply making up things they have never even witnessed, and also just repeating what some other clown may have posted and is following that lead.

[lon3lytoaster]

No one's saying O'Bryant is going to be even a tenth of the player Parish was. Most people are simply implying Golden State made a mistake of letting go of a center in the past (Parish) and now that they've done it again there's a chance O'Bryant could still be a good player. Parish good? No. Almost certainly not, but the only real reason the Parish-POB comparison comes into play anyway is because of the teams that let go of both players.

Anyway, why is everyone making such a big fuss about this signing anyway? We didn't draft the kid and we didn't give up anything to sign him. There's zero reason to hate this signing with such a passion that I've seen by some of the posters here. Could we of had Andersen, Randolph, or another big? Yea, probably but then what's the chance any of them make a bigger impact than what O'Bryant could do?

Oh, and there's still probably good chance we sign Andersen, anywhoo.

[Roy Hobbs]

I'm not sure where this comes from, either.  I'm reading old newspaper accounts from the time:

Auerbach had expected Cowens to retire after this season and he prepared for it by trading the first and 13th choices in last June's college draft to the Golden State Warriors for Robert Parish, an established center and the No. 3 pick in the draft.

The Boston Celtics, who owned Detroit's first pick in the draft, traded it to Golden State for Robert Parish, the Warriors' seven-foot center. Parish is a four-year veteran who averaged 17 points per game and grabbed nearly 800 rebounds last season, despite what some people said was an attitude problem.

Boston General Manager Red Auerbach reportedly wanted Parish because of what happened against Philadelphia in this year's playoffs, when the physically powerful 76ers simply muscled the Celtics' season into mothballs. Boston used its own first pick to take 6 ft. 11 in. center-forward Kevin McHale of Minnesota.

The Golden State Warriors, who on Monday gave up Robert Parish, their veteran center, to the Boston Celtics in order to obtain the first pick in the draft, selected the 7-foot-1-inch Carroll, who led Purdue University into the semifinals of the National Collegiate tournament last March.

With the acquisition of the 26-year-old Parish, who averaged 17 points and 10.9 rebounds a game last season, Boston strengthened the center spot, now anchored by the 31-year-old Dave Cowens.
 
Auerbach Likes the Deal

''There are three great players in tomorrow's draft,'' said Auerbach by telephone from Boston, referring to Carroll, McHale and Griffith, ''and with this trade we have wound up with one of them, plus Parish. We bought ourselves an experienced center, a guy that gets you 10 or 12 rebounds a night, can score and is sixth or seventh in the league in blocked shots. It was the type of a deal that will help both teams.''

[Andy Jick]

i still am blown away that auerbach pulled that deal off...obviously, the most lop-sided trade in nba history.  yeah, probably a little luck involved, but it was gutsy, shrewd, and pretty [dang] smart.

[Roy Hobbs]

No one's saying O'Bryant is going to be even a tenth of the player Parish was. Most people are simply implying Golden State made a mistake of letting go of a center in the past (Parish) and now that they've done it again there's a chance O'Bryant could still be a good player. Parish good? No. Almost certainly not, but the only real reason the Parish-POB comparison comes into play anyway is because of the teams that let go of both players.

I'm sure nobody thinks O'Bryant will be as good as Parish, and that's not really my problem.  My issue is people calling pre-Boston Parish a "stiff".  That is just so completely off-base that I was compelled to start this thread.  It's unfortunate that so few have an appreciation about the history of the league, but I'd like to clear up some of the ignorance on this particular point.

Robert Parish was a very good center in Golden State.  That's what made Red's trade that much more spectacular.  He got one of the players he was considering at #1 (Kevin McHale) while also getting a top-notch center.  He didn't trade for McHale and a "stiff".  He traded for McHale and a guy averaging 17/11.  It was a coup of epic proportions.

[lon3lytoaster]

Ah ok then. If people are saying that Pre-Boston Parish was a stiff then that's pretty silly of them.

[Andy Jick]

it shouldn't be surprising, roy...afterall, there was a debate started a few weeks ago wondering whether larry bird would be an all-star or not...

[Roy Hobbs]

True, Andy.  TPs to you and ShoreFan for appreciating the greatness of pre-Boston Parish.

[SShoreFan 2.0]

OK,

Roy, those quotes from 1980 are some of the coolest quotes I have read in ages -- wow!!!

The crazy thing is, is that in his last two seasons with Golden State, the Chief averaged 17 points 11 boards....the man was never a slouch.

With being on the same team with Bird, McHale & Walton and in the league with Lanieer, Lambeer, Jabar and Malone, he was often over looked because of his quiet business like approach and the manner in which he made everything look so simple.

[Fan from VT]

I agree. Can't compare the two. One was a known great player traded in his prime. The other is a low risk high reward free agent project that didn't work out. In one case we fleeced G.S., in the other he was just an available FA that we happened to sign. One was expected to step in and be a major cornerstone of championships; the other we're hoping can provide a little D and putback dunks off the bench.

However, sports fans are nostalgic, and they like to see continuity and themes throughout their franchise's history, so looking for parallels is natural. Both players are centers from Golden State.

Kind of like how the Knicks' GM at the time justified the Michael Sweetney selection by saying (in the face of boos) "last time we got a big man from Georgetown, it worked out okay." Say what you will about the man, but Big Big difference between Sweetney and Ewing.

[Andy Jick]

the biggest issue with parish was not his abilities, but rather it was a question of commitment and desire.  people are confusing a lack of skill (o'bryant) with a lack of determination (parish).  obviously there can be a combination of these two problems, but robert parish took OUTSTANDING care of his body and was one of the greatest conditioned athletes in the nba during his time.

how many times do we recall seeing the guy be the FIRST person down the floor on the fast break, and sometimes he did that on two ankles that were held together with nothing more than a ray melchiorre tape job.

[no kidding]

Hobbs, you hopped on me yesterday about this same thing. And while I could appreciate your point, I think you were a bit overboard.

I, for one, was certainly old enough to watch Parish when Red traded for him. At the time, we couldn't understand why the Warriors traded him and the 3 pick (McHale) for the 1 pick, which they used on Joe Barry Carroll (a total mutt, which I knew from having seen him at Purdue). I don't remember whether we actually read any quotes attributed to the Golden State management that they saw Parish as a big disappointment.  But that's how we interpreted it, since they had given up on him for an unproven Carroll.  And that still seems like a fair assumption.

But more to your point, I don't remember anyone saying at the time that Golden State thought Parish was a stiff. Before he arrived in Boston, I remember knowing that Parish was a talent, and that Red had pulled off at least a good deal (later, we realized it was a tremendous one). And of course, we didn't have the Internet in those days, so there wasn't anybody saying anything idiotic like that on some blog.

[ACF]

I remember watching NBA Action
"back in the day" ('91? '92?)
and they had this segment with
the Chief. Old footage from when
he was at GSW. The narrator talked
about how RP got his number. That it
had to do with how he saw the time in
Oakland(?) Can anyone tell me the story
of what that was all about?
I never knew he could ball before Boston
so some info would be great. I'm sure many
others here were unaware as well. I guess
it's all due to "image".

I only got to watch RP in maybe 15 games
and then the clips I've seen on the 'Net,
so I don't have great indsight into this.
I do know this, though:
The Parish I watched was the epitome of calm.
A guy you could depend on to deliver.
A true Celtic.

Patrick O'Bryant? I don't know him.
I probably won't either.
He'll probably be busy doing his Alex
Ferguson impersonation at the end of the bench.