WEEI: Unnamed team willing to offer Posey 4th year

[Jon]

Ainge has a value limit and he's not going to chase Posey.  It is clear that Ainge wants to be competitive long term. 

Red Sox fans were eventually "trained" to not get attatched to popular aging players.  Celtic fans may have to go through that process now, and learn not to stomp and kick if the team doesn't go all out to re-sign a popular but aging player.

Yep.  If Danny was uncomfortable with an aging Larry Bird and James Posey on his roster, it's doubtful that he wants a 36 year old James Posey making $7 million.

Except the Celtics situation is nothing like the Red Sox' situation for a variety of reasons. 

1) The Sox, while getting older now, has the luxury of time in 2004 when the started making "tough decisions."  They bit the bullet on Damon and Martinez, and bounced back three years later with their core guys to win a title.  That's not happening here.  Three years from now, the Big Three will not be what they are today. 

2) The Sox have no salary cap.  That gives them much more flexibility.  If they let a player walk, they can basically sign whoever they want.  Remember, in the same season that Damon and Pedro left, Lowell and Beckett came in.  That isn't happening here.  More importantly, if they are frugal going into the season, they have far more flexibility in trades in the midseason.  They can always trade some prospects for a need in July.  That isn't going to happen for the Celtics. 

[johnnyrondo]

"unnamed teams" ussually indicate something being floated by an agent.  I wouldn't put too much stock into it yet.  It sounds like scare tactics to me.

Very true. Very Scott Borasesque. He did that with Varitek, with Damon, basically with all his FA's. Besides the "unnamed team is offering an extra yr" tactic, there is also the "a mystery team has now come into the picture" tactic. We haven't seen that one yet, which makes me think we're still not close to hearing where he signs.

[Chris]

People keep bringing up Posey's "weight" violation with the Heat. That was absolutely ridiculous. Riley's body fat percentage requirement was a joke. When they suspended Posey and Walker, Posey had 9% body fat and Walker 11% . Even Antoine's wasn't a real big deal. When you bring up these kind of comments you are insinuating that Posey is a slacker and not a hard worker. We have never heard once that he didn't bring it all the time. We don't know what he did in practice, but the man surely is not and has never been fat. Target something realistic if you are going to bring up comments to rationalize not giving him a fourth year...

i agree. TP.

using "weight" as a reason to not give Posey a 4th year is ridiculous.

personally, i don't agree with the salary structure reasoning either, but at least it has some merit.

How is posey's conditioning not a valid concern? Nearly all of Posey's effectiveness as a defender can be attributed to his length and athleticism. If Posey loses a step he's a much less effective defender. He's 31 now, so its not like he had anywhere to go but down. I don't think its a good reason to not sign him, but it should definitely be a factor when considering the entire picture. his coach gave him criteria to be filled, and Posey didn't fill it, thats got to matter somewhere in all this.

Ditto.  How many of us have followed Posey's career closely enough to know him well?  As much as people would love to think he's a super-motivated gym rat, were there any stories like that during the season?  I remember all the stories about Ray Allen, KG, Rondo, etc., but to my knowledge Posey has never been cited as somebody who is constantly working out.  He could be doing those things; we just don't know.

Obviously, he performed this season, but many players perform well in a contract year.  The last time he was on a team coming off of a championship, his coach questioned his conditioning and his failure to meet goals set for him.  Obviously, that Riley was willing to suspend somebody who is seen as a "team leader" suggests that he wasn't happy about something.

We know what Posey did for us for one season.  He filled his role very well, and I would like to see him back.  However, the longer you extend his contract, the more you have to worry about other issues.  Amongst those are the natural aging process, which can presumably be accelerated or decelerated by a player's fitness.  If Posey isn't going to make every possible effort to get himself in tip-top playing condition (something none of us know for certain one way or the other) then at least it's a caution flag.

again, if this is really your feelings, then why are you okay signing him for three seasons?

Well, I can't speak for Roy, but as someone who thinks 3 years is ideal, and 4 is a much bigger risk, here is my reasoning... The C's salary structure for the next 3 years pretty much dictates that they will not have significant cap space at all without some major maneuvering.  However, in the 4th year (2011), they are potentially looking at enough cap space to offer someone a max contract once Pierce comes off the books.  If they have Posey on the books for $7-$8 million that year, that could be the difference between us being able to "reload", or being stuck without quite enough room.  If Posey is still producing to warrant an $8 million contract, that is one thing, but if there are legitimate doubts that he would be, then it is a problem.

[tenn_smoothie]

Darn it. 


Could be the cavs.  They could afford to with the 4th year since they have no long term contract.

Here's why i don't think it's the Cavs --- I truly believe its Boston (a) vs. New Orleans (f) for Posey.

It kind of boggles my mind that teams like Cleveland and Houston continue to be listed as destinations for Posey. The question not addresses by sportswriters -- or that i haven't seen -- is what is the effect of signing Posey on the teams supposedly interested in Posey. Here's my calculations (based on posted salary data at HH & SS):

A. Boston -- Signing posey to an MLE deal (along with resigning HOuse and some vet. min additions) puts us about $7.5M over the luxury tax level -- a $1M less than last year. We start next summer about $1M under the lux tax limit.


B. Cleveland --- this never gets written about --- signing Posey to an MLE deal puts them $17-20M over the luxury tax limit .... is there really any reason to think (a) they'd go that far over the lux tax limit (that's more than New York paid last year) and (b) they'd sign Posey for 4 years?


C. LA Fakers -- Signing Posey would mean paying $11M in luxury tax this year and assuming they sign Bynum for $9M (a bargain?) and Vujacic for $3M it puts them over for next summer already.


D. Houston -- Signing Big Games James takes them from being under the Lux Tax to over... a big jump for a team that has Shane Battier doing much of what Posey does.


E. Detroit --- I didn't calculate for them since (a) they have the room but (b) they're looking to reshape their roster in trades (McGrady?) so it's hard to imagine they'd sign Posey *before* doing that.


F. New Orleans --- IMO the only legitimate offer can come from N.O. Because Chris Paul's extension doesn't kick in till next year signing Posey leaves them well under the Lux Tax limit. However.... I think they'd be more reluctant than us to give a 4th year as it would cut into the pretty sizeable cap room they have when both Peja and Tyson Chandler come off the books in 2011.

thanks Gainesville - i am playing catch-up in the new world of NBA contract options   since i don't follow the league like i used to. what a maze of loopholes and options.

btw ............ are you a gator fan ??

give Posey 4 years. whoever said that we basically have 3 or 4 more years of title contention in front of us - then let's get it done while we got the muscle. if the Celts retain Posey & House and win one more banner in the next 3 years, it will have been worth it. then it's time to rebuild anyway.

[indeedproceed]

People keep bringing up Posey's "weight" violation with the Heat. That was absolutely ridiculous. Riley's body fat percentage requirement was a joke. When they suspended Posey and Walker, Posey had 9% body fat and Walker 11% . Even Antoine's wasn't a real big deal. When you bring up these kind of comments you are insinuating that Posey is a slacker and not a hard worker. We have never heard once that he didn't bring it all the time. We don't know what he did in practice, but the man surely is not and has never been fat. Target something realistic if you are going to bring up comments to rationalize not giving him a fourth year...

i agree. TP.

using "weight" as a reason to not give Posey a 4th year is ridiculous.

personally, i don't agree with the salary structure reasoning either, but at least it has some merit.

How is posey's conditioning not a valid concern? Nearly all of Posey's effectiveness as a defender can be attributed to his length and athleticism. If Posey loses a step he's a much less effective defender. He's 31 now, so its not like he had anywhere to go but down. I don't think its a good reason to not sign him, but it should definitely be a factor when considering the entire picture. his coach gave him criteria to be filled, and Posey didn't fill it, thats got to matter somewhere in all this.

are you seriously worried about Posey's "weight" next season?

like EJP pointed out, that situation in Miami was overblown.

if i are arguing that we should only sign Posey for one season, then i think it is fair to be using post Title "weight" as a criticism.

but if you are in the "three years - yes. four years - no." camp, then i think you are just rationalizing. because if you were genuinely worried about what shape Posey is going to be in next season, then you wouldn't want to sign him for three years.

Im "genuinely worried" that Posey will become complacent as he ages, which is the implication that these weight arguments carry.

Thats why I don't want a third or a fourth year really. I know Wyc is rich but the prospect of wasting over 10million dollars on a player (lux tax+salary) that can only be used as trade fodder is probably pretty disheartening.

James Posey will only be as good as his body holds up and his enthusiasm stays for the game of basketball. You can't fake what he does on the defensive end. I don't know enough about POsey to tell if he's going to play 110% for all four years of that contract, but history tells us that aging athletic wing players lose a step around age 33/34. You can't like the odds that he will be an exception if he again has conditioning problems.

[winsomme]

Ainge has a value limit and he's not going to chase Posey.  It is clear that Ainge wants to be competitive long term.  

Red Sox fans were eventually "trained" to not get attatched to popular aging players.  Celtic fans may have to go through that process now, and learn not to stomp and kick if the team doesn't go all out to re-sign a popular but aging player.

i think that some people misunderstand this "value" strategy.

"value" is not only determined by the player himself, but also the availability of qualified replacements.

the Pats were willing to lose Vinatieri not only because they didn't want to spend the money, but also because they were confident that they could bring in someone who could perform well at the job.

the Red Sox were willing to let go of Johnny Damon and Pedro because they felt confident that they could get players to fill their roles. they have paid Varitek because he is not easy to replace, not because they didn't have concerns about him getting older....just like they did with Pedro and Damon.

so the question about Posey for most of his supporters here is not simply about bringing back Posey, but also  considering WHO the replacement is.

you guys IMO are only looking at one half of the equation. because from where i am standing, who takes Posey's minutes next season is as important a consideration in determining how much to offer Posey as is who he will be as a player when he is 36...

[Jon]

People keep bringing up Posey's "weight" violation with the Heat. That was absolutely ridiculous. Riley's body fat percentage requirement was a joke. When they suspended Posey and Walker, Posey had 9% body fat and Walker 11% . Even Antoine's wasn't a real big deal. When you bring up these kind of comments you are insinuating that Posey is a slacker and not a hard worker. We have never heard once that he didn't bring it all the time. We don't know what he did in practice, but the man surely is not and has never been fat. Target something realistic if you are going to bring up comments to rationalize not giving him a fourth year...

i agree. TP.

using "weight" as a reason to not give Posey a 4th year is ridiculous.

personally, i don't agree with the salary structure reasoning either, but at least it has some merit.

How is posey's conditioning not a valid concern? Nearly all of Posey's effectiveness as a defender can be attributed to his length and athleticism. If Posey loses a step he's a much less effective defender. He's 31 now, so its not like he had anywhere to go but down. I don't think its a good reason to not sign him, but it should definitely be a factor when considering the entire picture. his coach gave him criteria to be filled, and Posey didn't fill it, thats got to matter somewhere in all this.

Ditto.  How many of us have followed Posey's career closely enough to know him well?  As much as people would love to think he's a super-motivated gym rat, were there any stories like that during the season?  I remember all the stories about Ray Allen, KG, Rondo, etc., but to my knowledge Posey has never been cited as somebody who is constantly working out.  He could be doing those things; we just don't know.

Obviously, he performed this season, but many players perform well in a contract year.  The last time he was on a team coming off of a championship, his coach questioned his conditioning and his failure to meet goals set for him.  Obviously, that Riley was willing to suspend somebody who is seen as a "team leader" suggests that he wasn't happy about something.

We know what Posey did for us for one season.  He filled his role very well, and I would like to see him back.  However, the longer you extend his contract, the more you have to worry about other issues.  Amongst those are the natural aging process, which can presumably be accelerated or decelerated by a player's fitness.  If Posey isn't going to make every possible effort to get himself in tip-top playing condition (something none of us know for certain one way or the other) then at least it's a caution flag.

again, if this is really your feelings, then why are you okay signing him for three seasons?

Well, I can't speak for Roy, but as someone who thinks 3 years is ideal, and 4 is a much bigger risk, here is my reasoning... The C's salary structure for the next 3 years pretty much dictates that they will not have significant cap space at all without some major maneuvering.  However, in the 4th year (2011), they are potentially looking at enough cap space to offer someone a max contract once Pierce comes off the books.  If they have Posey on the books for $7-$8 million that year, that could be the difference between us being able to "reload", or being stuck without quite enough room.  If Posey is still producing to warrant an $8 million contract, that is one thing, but if there are legitimate doubts that he would be, then it is a problem.

I think the whole debate comes down to how integral Posey is to repeating.  Do they need him to repeat given his skill level and given his replaceability?  If they do, I'd argue that whatever happens in 2011 isn't important for three reasons. 

1) Remember when the Bulls tried to get cap room to sign Tracy McGrady or the Magic to sign Tim Duncan?  How did that go?  There's no guarantee that a superstar comes here in 2011.  So to jeopardize a championship for that now is insane.  Furthermore, even if a major superstar does come here, what are the chances he pairs with a declining Garnett for a title? 

2) What are the chances we renounce Pierce in 2011 anyway?  In all likelihood he'll be extended to at least finish out Garnett's contract.  He'll only be 34. 

3) Even if we renounce Pierce, why can't our big free agent year be 2012 when Pierce AND Garnett are both off the books.  At that point, we could conceivably land two superstars in offseason. 

[winsomme]

People keep bringing up Posey's "weight" violation with the Heat. That was absolutely ridiculous. Riley's body fat percentage requirement was a joke. When they suspended Posey and Walker, Posey had 9% body fat and Walker 11% . Even Antoine's wasn't a real big deal. When you bring up these kind of comments you are insinuating that Posey is a slacker and not a hard worker. We have never heard once that he didn't bring it all the time. We don't know what he did in practice, but the man surely is not and has never been fat. Target something realistic if you are going to bring up comments to rationalize not giving him a fourth year...

i agree. TP.

using "weight" as a reason to not give Posey a 4th year is ridiculous.

personally, i don't agree with the salary structure reasoning either, but at least it has some merit.

How is posey's conditioning not a valid concern? Nearly all of Posey's effectiveness as a defender can be attributed to his length and athleticism. If Posey loses a step he's a much less effective defender. He's 31 now, so its not like he had anywhere to go but down. I don't think its a good reason to not sign him, but it should definitely be a factor when considering the entire picture. his coach gave him criteria to be filled, and Posey didn't fill it, thats got to matter somewhere in all this.

Ditto.  How many of us have followed Posey's career closely enough to know him well?  As much as people would love to think he's a super-motivated gym rat, were there any stories like that during the season?  I remember all the stories about Ray Allen, KG, Rondo, etc., but to my knowledge Posey has never been cited as somebody who is constantly working out.  He could be doing those things; we just don't know.

Obviously, he performed this season, but many players perform well in a contract year.  The last time he was on a team coming off of a championship, his coach questioned his conditioning and his failure to meet goals set for him.  Obviously, that Riley was willing to suspend somebody who is seen as a "team leader" suggests that he wasn't happy about something.

We know what Posey did for us for one season.  He filled his role very well, and I would like to see him back.  However, the longer you extend his contract, the more you have to worry about other issues.  Amongst those are the natural aging process, which can presumably be accelerated or decelerated by a player's fitness.  If Posey isn't going to make every possible effort to get himself in tip-top playing condition (something none of us know for certain one way or the other) then at least it's a caution flag.

again, if this is really your feelings, then why are you okay signing him for three seasons?

Well, I can't speak for Roy, but as someone who thinks 3 years is ideal, and 4 is a much bigger risk, here is my reasoning... The C's salary structure for the next 3 years pretty much dictates that they will not have significant cap space at all without some major maneuvering.  However, in the 4th year (2011), they are potentially looking at enough cap space to offer someone a max contract once Pierce comes off the books.  If they have Posey on the books for $7-$8 million that year, that could be the difference between us being able to "reload", or being stuck without quite enough room.  If Posey is still producing to warrant an $8 million contract, that is one thing, but if there are legitimate doubts that he would be, then it is a problem.

chris, like i said in an earlier post, while i don't personally agree with the salary concerns about offering Posey an MLE deal, i don't recognize that the concerns are legit.

but using "weight" as a concern to not want go to four years seems like a rationalization to me because if someone was really concerned about his "weight" next season, i don't see why they would be willing to give him a three year deal.

[MBunge]

The C's salary structure for the next 3 years pretty much dictates that they will not have significant cap space at all without some major maneuvering.  However, in the 4th year (2011), they are potentially looking at enough cap space to offer someone a max contract once Pierce comes off the books.  If they have Posey on the books for $7-$8 million that year, that could be the difference between us being able to "reload", or being stuck without quite enough room.

You have to consider the future when signing long-term deals, but balking at a 4th year for Posey because it might theoretically interfere with signing a max player years down the road is taking that too far.  Ray might be resigned to a two year to finish his career with the Cs.  Pierce and KG might also sign short deals as well.  Ainge could trade Ray or KG after next season.  There's just too many other factors to consider.

I think you absolutely try and hold the line and not give the 4th year.  But there's no other FA out there that will give Boston a better chance to win a title next year, so I think you do a 4 year deal if you absolutely have to.

Mike

[winsomme]

People keep bringing up Posey's "weight" violation with the Heat. That was absolutely ridiculous. Riley's body fat percentage requirement was a joke. When they suspended Posey and Walker, Posey had 9% body fat and Walker 11% . Even Antoine's wasn't a real big deal. When you bring up these kind of comments you are insinuating that Posey is a slacker and not a hard worker. We have never heard once that he didn't bring it all the time. We don't know what he did in practice, but the man surely is not and has never been fat. Target something realistic if you are going to bring up comments to rationalize not giving him a fourth year...

i agree. TP.

using "weight" as a reason to not give Posey a 4th year is ridiculous.

personally, i don't agree with the salary structure reasoning either, but at least it has some merit.

How is posey's conditioning not a valid concern? Nearly all of Posey's effectiveness as a defender can be attributed to his length and athleticism. If Posey loses a step he's a much less effective defender. He's 31 now, so its not like he had anywhere to go but down. I don't think its a good reason to not sign him, but it should definitely be a factor when considering the entire picture. his coach gave him criteria to be filled, and Posey didn't fill it, thats got to matter somewhere in all this.

are you seriously worried about Posey's "weight" next season?

like EJP pointed out, that situation in Miami was overblown.

if i are arguing that we should only sign Posey for one season, then i think it is fair to be using post Title "weight" as a criticism.

but if you are in the "three years - yes. four years - no." camp, then i think you are just rationalizing. because if you were genuinely worried about what shape Posey is going to be in next season, then you wouldn't want to sign him for three years.

Im "genuinely worried" that Posey will become complacent as he ages, which is the implication that these weight arguments carry.

Thats why I don't want a third or a fourth year really. I know Wyc is rich but the prospect of wasting over 10million dollars on a player (lux tax+salary) that can only be used as trade fodder is probably pretty disheartening.

James Posey will only be as good as his body holds up and his enthusiasm stays for the game of basketball. You can't fake what he does on the defensive end. I don't know enough about POsey to tell if he's going to play 110% for all four years of that contract, but history tells us that aging athletic wing players lose a step around age 33/34. You can't like the odds that he will be an exception if he again has conditioning problems.

it seems strange to me that you would be willing to give a three year deal to a guy that you are worried about phoning it in over the next couple of seasons.

remember, the reasoning you are giving for this concern is that Posey supposedly got lazy in the season FOLLOWING the Miami Title....not three seasons down the road.

[Roy Hobbs]

Im "genuinely worried" that Posey will become complacent as he ages, which is the implication that these weight arguments carry.

Thats why I don't want a third or a fourth year really. I know Wyc is rich but the prospect of wasting over 10million dollars on a player (lux tax+salary) that can only be used as trade fodder is probably pretty disheartening.

James Posey will only be as good as his body holds up and his enthusiasm stays for the game of basketball. You can't fake what he does on the defensive end. I don't know enough about POsey to tell if he's going to play 110% for all four years of that contract, but history tells us that aging athletic wing players lose a step around age 33/34. You can't like the odds that he will be an exception if he again has conditioning problems.

it seems strange to me that you would be willing to give a three year deal to a guy that you are worried about phoning it in over the next couple of seasons.

remember, the reasoning you are giving for this concern is that Posey supposedly got lazy in the season FOLLOWING the Miami Title....not three seasons down the road.

As you have been warned about repeatedly, don't put words in other people's mouths.  Read what IP said, not what you want him to have said.

[winsomme]

People keep bringing up Posey's "weight" violation with the Heat. That was absolutely ridiculous. Riley's body fat percentage requirement was a joke. When they suspended Posey and Walker, Posey had 9% body fat and Walker 11% . Even Antoine's wasn't a real big deal. When you bring up these kind of comments you are insinuating that Posey is a slacker and not a hard worker. We have never heard once that he didn't bring it all the time. We don't know what he did in practice, but the man surely is not and has never been fat. Target something realistic if you are going to bring up comments to rationalize not giving him a fourth year...

i agree. TP.

using "weight" as a reason to not give Posey a 4th year is ridiculous.

personally, i don't agree with the salary structure reasoning either, but at least it has some merit.

How is posey's conditioning not a valid concern? Nearly all of Posey's effectiveness as a defender can be attributed to his length and athleticism. If Posey loses a step he's a much less effective defender. He's 31 now, so its not like he had anywhere to go but down. I don't think its a good reason to not sign him, but it should definitely be a factor when considering the entire picture. his coach gave him criteria to be filled, and Posey didn't fill it, thats got to matter somewhere in all this.

are you seriously worried about Posey's "weight" next season?

like EJP pointed out, that situation in Miami was overblown.

if i are arguing that we should only sign Posey for one season, then i think it is fair to be using post Title "weight" as a criticism.

but if you are in the "three years - yes. four years - no." camp, then i think you are just rationalizing. because if you were genuinely worried about what shape Posey is going to be in next season, then you wouldn't want to sign him for three years.

Im "genuinely worried" that Posey will become complacent as he ages, which is the implication that these weight arguments carry.

Thats why I don't want a third or a fourth year really. I know Wyc is rich but the prospect of wasting over 10million dollars on a player (lux tax+salary) that can only be used as trade fodder is probably pretty disheartening.

James Posey will only be as good as his body holds up and his enthusiasm stays for the game of basketball. You can't fake what he does on the defensive end. I don't know enough about POsey to tell if he's going to play 110% for all four years of that contract, but history tells us that aging athletic wing players lose a step around age 33/34. You can't like the odds that he will be an exception if he again has conditioning problems.

it seems strange to me that you would be willing to give a three year deal to a guy that you are worried about phoning it in over the next couple of seasons.

remember, the reasoning you are giving for this concern is that Posey supposedly got lazy in the season FOLLOWING the Miami Title....not three seasons down the road.

Don't put words in other people's mouths.  Read what IP said, not what you want him to have said.

IP originally challenged me on the "weight" question pertaining to Miami suspending him in the season FOLLOWING their Title. that is where this started.

talking about a guy slowing down as he ages is a different point.

[Roy Hobbs]

Im "genuinely worried" that Posey will become complacent as he ages, which is the implication that these weight arguments carry.

Thats why I don't want a third or a fourth year really. I know Wyc is rich but the prospect of wasting over 10million dollars on a player (lux tax+salary) that can only be used as trade fodder is probably pretty disheartening.

James Posey will only be as good as his body holds up and his enthusiasm stays for the game of basketball. You can't fake what he does on the defensive end. I don't know enough about POsey to tell if he's going to play 110% for all four years of that contract, but history tells us that aging athletic wing players lose a step around age 33/34. You can't like the odds that he will be an exception if he again has conditioning problems.

it seems strange to me that you would be willing to give a three year deal to a guy that you are worried about phoning it in over the next couple of seasons.

remember, the reasoning you are giving for this concern is that Posey supposedly got lazy in the season FOLLOWING the Miami Title....not three seasons down the road.

Don't put words in other people's mouths.  Read what IP said, not what you want him to have said.

IP originally challenged me on the "weight" question pertaining to Miami suspending him in the season FOLLOWING their Title. that is where this started.

talking about a guy slowing down as he ages is a different point.

IP isn't sold on three years, so I'm not sure why you're attacking him with your straw men.

[Andy Jick]

i'd give him 3 years, full MLE - take it or leave it...and i'd float a deadline out there to his agent.

if they balk, then fine.  i'd have no problem with him leaving...i appreciate what he did but i also believe that he could be replaced.  maybe not the same caliber of player, but there is someone out there who is willing to take charges, stick the key three-pointer, and chest-bump his teammates before tipoff...

[winsomme]

Im "genuinely worried" that Posey will become complacent as he ages, which is the implication that these weight arguments carry.

Thats why I don't want a third or a fourth year really. I know Wyc is rich but the prospect of wasting over 10million dollars on a player (lux tax+salary) that can only be used as trade fodder is probably pretty disheartening.

James Posey will only be as good as his body holds up and his enthusiasm stays for the game of basketball. You can't fake what he does on the defensive end. I don't know enough about POsey to tell if he's going to play 110% for all four years of that contract, but history tells us that aging athletic wing players lose a step around age 33/34. You can't like the odds that he will be an exception if he again has conditioning problems.

it seems strange to me that you would be willing to give a three year deal to a guy that you are worried about phoning it in over the next couple of seasons.

remember, the reasoning you are giving for this concern is that Posey supposedly got lazy in the season FOLLOWING the Miami Title....not three seasons down the road.

Don't put words in other people's mouths.  Read what IP said, not what you want him to have said.

IP originally challenged me on the "weight" question pertaining to Miami suspending him in the season FOLLOWING their Title. that is where this started.

talking about a guy slowing down as he ages is a different point.

IP isn't sold on three years, so I'm not sure why you're attacking him with your straw men.

like i said in a PREVIOUS post Roy.

if you are arguing that we should only sign Posey for one season, then i think it is fair to be using post Title "weight" as a criticism.

but if you are in the "three years - yes. four years - no." camp, then i think you are just rationalizing. because if you were genuinely worried about what shape Posey is going to be in next season, then you wouldn't want to sign him for three years.

my problem with people using "weight" as a concern for Posey is with people who are comfortable with a three year deal but not a four....