Author Topic: The case against Posey  (Read 4621 times)

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Re: The case against Posey
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2008, 12:12:26 PM »

Offline Brendan

  • Jim Loscutoff
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Additional stats to ponder. According to 82games.com Posey got 26% of the team minutes at PF and 19% of the team minutes at SF and no minutes at SG. We have ***the best*** backup PF in the league according to PER in Leon Powe. And he is pretty solid as a center, except against a few guys in the league. In his last year in Miami, Posey was pretty bad at SG. I also think his PER of 12 is inflated due to the fact that our All Stars and Rondo are basically all great at drawing double teams and finding open outside shooters. He won't be as good elsewhere - but keep in mind other players won't be as good a fit as that shooter.

I agree with going after Kwame - who I think will look like a Perk clone in this system and playing Powe as PF. Alternatively sigining Deke or Zo to a vet min be fine as well. None of these guys should require the full MLE, Kwame might, but probably at less years. Kwame should consider taking less here on a two or three year deal, because he'd be working in a system that primarily wants defense from its centers, has low expectations for him, and has a great big man coach. At 25 he has time to get another very big contract, and getting a three year deal (to create Bird rights) is the best route for that.

As for PG/Wing - I think we need houses three point shooting off the bench, or someone to replace it and he's capable enough at PG that most of the time it won't matter. However if the team likes Pruitt's progression, rolling the dice with him as an extra shooter and 3rd string backup, would open up a spot to go after Livingston as combo guard. Obviously I don't know what the injury situation is with Livingston, but I'm assuming he's recovered mostly. If not Tony Allen and House are probably adequate at the wings and can both be had without tapping the LLE or whatever is left of the MLE, meaning we still have some flexibility to win a mid season bidding war.

Additionally - whenever agents run their mouth about how many teams love Posey and how the Celtics need to act fast - I get more confident taht other teams aren't offering the full MLE for 4 years (and definately not 5.) If CLE was offering 5 years of the full MLE, Posey would be signed. Ditto LAL etc. Posey is not as valuable to teams that aren't in title contention, and their are only a handful of those where he's a good fit. CLE is a good fit since he can play SF behind James or PF in a small ball lineup, but they might be worried about having a MLE deal for Posey tying up cap space, when they are trying to sign Lebron's replacement. LAL is not really a good fit, they have small forwards who can sort of play PF a plenty there in Vlad and Walton, and they have pretty decent front court depth with Odam, Gasol, and Bynum. They're in need of a modern day Ron Harper to start at PG more than anything.

So well I want Posey back, I think the full MLE is over paying - but over paying is okay - as long as the years are three. If he wants four years, he needs to sign to the non-bird.

BTW - I think Ainge could have handled his signing a bit craftier last year. Had he signed Posey to close to the MLE, then non-Bird rights might be sufficient to match MLE offers. He could have used the LLE on House. Sure we wouldn't have the LLE now, but we'd have the ability to sign Posey without using the MLE. Oh Well.

Re: The case against Posey
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2008, 12:20:43 PM »

Offline celt4ever

  • Joe Mazzulla
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the case is this for posey it's the last time he can get that amount of money so he's like to get 5 year full mle for the celtics the perfect situation it's 3 years. so if posey it's better than patterson and snyder
and we can't land kurt thomas i say give a 4 year to posey i could live with 1 more year extra

 

Re: The case against Posey
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2008, 12:43:53 PM »

Offline bucknersrevenge

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Additional stats to ponder. According to 82games.com Posey got 26% of the team minutes at PF and 19% of the team minutes at SF and no minutes at SG. We have ***the best*** backup PF in the league according to PER in Leon Powe. And he is pretty solid as a center, except against a few guys in the league. In his last year in Miami, Posey was pretty bad at SG. I also think his PER of 12 is inflated due to the fact that our All Stars and Rondo are basically all great at drawing double teams and finding open outside shooters. He won't be as good elsewhere - but keep in mind other players won't be as good a fit as that shooter.

I agree with going after Kwame - who I think will look like a Perk clone in this system and playing Powe as PF. Alternatively sigining Deke or Zo to a vet min be fine as well. None of these guys should require the full MLE, Kwame might, but probably at less years. Kwame should consider taking less here on a two or three year deal, because he'd be working in a system that primarily wants defense from its centers, has low expectations for him, and has a great big man coach. At 25 he has time to get another very big contract, and getting a three year deal (to create Bird rights) is the best route for that.

As for PG/Wing - I think we need houses three point shooting off the bench, or someone to replace it and he's capable enough at PG that most of the time it won't matter. However if the team likes Pruitt's progression, rolling the dice with him as an extra shooter and 3rd string backup, would open up a spot to go after Livingston as combo guard. Obviously I don't know what the injury situation is with Livingston, but I'm assuming he's recovered mostly. If not Tony Allen and House are probably adequate at the wings and can both be had without tapping the LLE or whatever is left of the MLE, meaning we still have some flexibility to win a mid season bidding war.

Additionally - whenever agents run their mouth about how many teams love Posey and how the Celtics need to act fast - I get more confident taht other teams aren't offering the full MLE for 4 years (and definately not 5.) If CLE was offering 5 years of the full MLE, Posey would be signed. Ditto LAL etc. Posey is not as valuable to teams that aren't in title contention, and their are only a handful of those where he's a good fit. CLE is a good fit since he can play SF behind James or PF in a small ball lineup, but they might be worried about having a MLE deal for Posey tying up cap space, when they are trying to sign Lebron's replacement. LAL is not really a good fit, they have small forwards who can sort of play PF a plenty there in Vlad and Walton, and they have pretty decent front court depth with Odam, Gasol, and Bynum. They're in need of a modern day Ron Harper to start at PG more than anything.

So well I want Posey back, I think the full MLE is over paying - but over paying is okay - as long as the years are three. If he wants four years, he needs to sign to the non-bird.

BTW - I think Ainge could have handled his signing a bit craftier last year. Had he signed Posey to close to the MLE, then non-Bird rights might be sufficient to match MLE offers. He could have used the LLE on House. Sure we wouldn't have the LLE now, but we'd have the ability to sign Posey without using the MLE. Oh Well.


definitely great points about kwame brown. could absolutely be worth a flyer for reasonably cheap here. he does have talent ray can work with hed be in a good situation with solid vets. hes young.

i also like bringing back house. he can play in the backcourt with pruitt and i think theyd be great together.
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