After winning the championship..have your opinions on Doc changed?

[amenhotep04]

My opinions of Doc?  Nope.  The guy is a great motivator.  Players enjoy playing for him.  Is he an X's and O's guy?  Nope.  I think Doc maximizes what is available to him.  If he's got great assistants and players, then Doc is a great coach.  If he does not have great assistants, I don't believe Doc can make up that inequity.

Did he outcoach Phil?  Absolutely.  He beat Jackson at his own game.  Jackson's not an X's and O's guy either.

[Edgar]

I loved doc from day one, I though he is the greatest coach ever to coach the game of basketball, he was and is my hero and i will probably name my firstborn child after him Docjandro Rodriguez.

[Brickowski]

I don't think he outcoached Phil Jackson at all.  The story of the finals was that a superior team crushed an inferior team.  Jackson knew it and threw in the towel early in game 6, that's all.

[nickagneta]

For those guys that don't like Doc as a coach, what exactly does he have to do to change your mind, or is he doomed to always being a bad coach in your minds?

I think during the playoffs I saw change and growth as a coach. I think much of what he does do well as a coach, that many give him very little credit for, came forth and showed why those attributes are important to have as a head coach.

If Doc consistently coaches like he did for the Lakers and Detroit series, I'd be fine with him.  Doc coached very poorly against Atlanta and much of the time in Cleveland, but he found his stride later in the playoffs.  He still made some decisions I wasn't in love with (too much Sam), but overall, he coached well.

The first round, though, was a debacle.  His team wasn't prepared, and that's at least in part because Doc totally changed his rotation on the eve of the playoffs.  If he doesn't repeat similar mistakes in the future, and doesn't become enamored with mediocre-to-poor players (Sam this season, at times Scal and/or Tony in the past) he'll be fine. 

Thanks Roy for the input and I agree whole heartedly.

I remember a conversation wdleehi and I had entering the last couple of weeks where he and others suggested that Doc rest the starters sporadically and then in the last 4 games or so put things into playoff mode and get the rotations set then so people would understand their roles and get accustomed to playing with who they would be playing with.

Fabulous idea. I agreed 1000%. And it didn't happen and then Doc somehow treated the first 14 games of the playoffs like it was the regular season with no rotations and was playing everyone but TAllen and Eddie. The team's mental preparation on the road was abysmal(you see I don't think Doc coached poorly during the entire 2 first series just on the road). That was all Doc. But the players where pitiful in most if not all those 6 road games and I think its a whole chicken or the egg argument as to who was to blame.

I don't throw tons of blame his way for those series because the team played great at hoem and like dogs on the road. You yourself Roy mentioned on more than one occasion that you thought Doc did everything he could to jump start the team and get their butts going but they didn't respond. I am not sure the struggles of the first two rounds can be placed solely or even mostly on Doc's shoulders. The entire team can all stand up and take responsibility for that. They were all pretty bad.

[Roy Hobbs]

You yourself Roy mentioned on more than one occasion that you thought Doc did everything he could to jump start the team and get their butts going but they didn't respond.

Hmm...  I'm not sure I ever went that far.  I did not, however, blame Doc for some of the efforts of our players.  There were games that no matter what Doc could have done, we would have lost, because the players didn't show up.  We don't know what Doc did for preparation leading up to those games, but in instances where your team gets blown out, it's very hard to blame the coach.

[cdif911]

I don't think he outcoached Phil Jackson at all.  The story of the finals was that a superior team crushed an inferior team.  Jackson knew it and threw in the towel early in game 6, that's all.

I hardly think a coach would throw in the towel especially in the finals, if he did he should be fired

[DannyZ]

For those guys that don't like Doc as a coach, what exactly does he have to do to change your mind, or is he doomed to always being a bad coach in your minds?

I think during the playoffs I saw change and growth as a coach. I think much of what he does do well as a coach, that many give him very little credit for, came forth and showed why those attributes are important to have as a head coach.

If Doc consistently coaches like he did for the Lakers and Detroit series, I'd be fine with him.  Doc coached very poorly against Atlanta and much of the time in Cleveland, but he found his stride later in the playoffs.  He still made some decisions I wasn't in love with (too much Sam), but overall, he coached well.

The first round, though, was a debacle.  His team wasn't prepared, and that's at least in part because Doc totally changed his rotation on the eve of the playoffs.  If he doesn't repeat similar mistakes in the future, and doesn't become enamored with mediocre-to-poor players (Sam this season, at times Scal and/or Tony in the past) he'll be fine. 

I think Doc was put in a difficult situation by Danny acquiring Cassell.  House hadn't exactly lit the world on fire towards the end of the season.  Cassell has a big ego and it would have been difficult to just bench him.  So Doc tried to integrate him.  Everyone though our biggest weakness was backup point guard.  Cassell had already played with Garnett and Allen and he appeared to be doing well (remember the 3 pointer to beat San Antonio?).  He arguably earned the backup spot away from Eddie.

But then the playoffs started and Cassell went into a slump.  It really hurt our second unit which struggled against Atlanta and Cleveland.  Doc had to figure this out on the fly.  We all wanted him to shorten his rotation so Eddie was sitting.  Eventually Doc decided to play both Sam and Eddie situationally which ended up working out well.

[EJPLAYA]

I don't think he outcoached Phil Jackson at all.  The story of the finals was that a superior team crushed an inferior team.  Jackson knew it and threw in the towel early in game 6, that's all.

Give me a coach who fights until the end like Doc anyday. You can have the "great" Phil Jackson and his throwing in the towel. Those who quit are losers.

With your argument Phil sucks as well anyway, because he didn't do anything for those championship teams. It was all the triangle offense from Dick and Michael Jordan and Scottie. He's just a motivator and can't coach...

[paintitgreen]

Yes, mine did in one important respect. While I still don't think he's a great coach, I wouldn't advocate firing him, like I thought I would be during and after the Atlanta series. The Cleveland series was a bit better, Detroit series was much better, and LA series was much better. So while I will always question his decisions I perceive to be bad, he proved that a team could win a championship with him as coach. So he's fine from here on out in my book.

[Section301]

My opinion of Doc has definitely changed.  At the beginning of the season, I was certain that the Celtics could not win a title with him as the coach.  Now, I am certain that they can.  

If you judge him on results, he's a successful coach.  If you judge him against traditional coaching criteria (play calling, rotations, recognizing and developing talent) he can certainly be second-guessed (and found lacking).  If you say it's a players' league, then it doesn't matter whether he can coach or not, it's purely based on staying out of the way of the talent (in which case you gotta leave him alone for losing with young players of average talent).  If you say the coaching makes the difference, well...he won a title.  Of course, I never thought Riley or Jackson was that good a coach either.  Each always had the best team on the floor. 

Was the Dallas first round failure Avery Johnson's fault, or the players?

[td450]

The thing that has always bothered me most about Doc was his rotation management and playing time allocations. I saw no evidence that he has learned anything. However, this team was great for him because there were far less of these types of decisions to make. He had very little choice on most of the roles. He still tinkered more than I would like, but it didn't matter as much as it normally would.

Doc also got lucky in the finals. He did a number of mystifying things, but they mostly worked out well.  His decisions with Tony Allen, Eddie House, Leon Powe and Big Baby all were pretty strange and inconsistent, but all of them stepped up and played well when called on anyway. I thought he yanked Rondo around pretty good, but he still got him to play some nice games when he really needed him. Over time, I don't think these types of moves would work as well.

[SShoreFan 2.0]

No.

I am on record of being in Doc's camp 100%.  Doesn't mean I agree with him 100% of the time, but I am a huge Doc River supporter.