Posey wants Beno Udrih money!

[cordobes]

the starter of this thread must not know much about beno udrih and the kings situation .. some of the comments being made about beno here just arent fair.. saying he doesnt bring anything to the table, overpaid ect ..

look at what other starting point guards are making, then look at what beno got and actually watch the guy play, he basically played bibby out of town who makes around twice as much as beno .. beno is better than rondo at this point in there careers.. sure rondo makes less but hes younger.

if you can give the MLE to a solid starting point guard whos only 27 , its a steal. he will be even better this year because he'll actually be in training camp and pre season with the team hes going to play for.

Agreed. TP.

They needed a starting PG and Beno was the only one on the market. Maybe they could have slipped their MLE and signed Tyrone Lue and Mo Evans. They wouldn't be overpaying anyone, but they would be a far worse team.

[Cooldude5t5]

the starter of this thread must not know much about beno udrih and the kings situation .. some of the comments being made about beno here just arent fair.. saying he doesnt bring anything to the table, overpaid ect ..

look at what other starting point guards are making, then look at what beno got and actually watch the guy play, he basically played bibby out of town who makes around twice as much as beno .. beno is better than rondo at this point in there careers.. sure rondo makes less but hes younger.

if you can give the MLE to a solid starting point guard whos only 27 , its a steal. he will be even better this year because he'll actually be in training camp and pre season with the team hes going to play for.

Are you Beno Udrih's agent or brother?  He had half of a good season and now he is a quality pg. Pg's better than Beno: Tony Parker, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Baron Davis, Monta Ellis, Derek Fisher, Rondo, Jameer Nelson, Andre Miller, TJ Ford, Jose Calderon, Jason Kidd, Devin Harris, Aernas, Delonte West, Billups, Iverson, and some more that are debatable.  Hmmmm I wonder if he is overpaid.

[Tw1x990]

alright, compare him to players who make 3X his salary.. bottom line is he got what he deserved as a starting point guard .. some of the players you listed are debatable.. fisher/rondo and hes flat out better than delonte... monta didnt even play point for GSW last year..

he played 65 games last year, missed the first few/training camp and preseason because he was still on the spurs .. theres no reason why his numbers this year wont be better than they were last year and considering the rediculous amount of money that gets thrown around in the nba, beno got what he deserved.. at least.

[kozlodoev]

It is no coincidence Udrih put up numbers in a season when the Kings weren't going anywhere. He is a classic case of the Dan Dickau sintrom, and just like Dickau, he can't defend the proverbial chair.

[T1ME]

I think some people are being short sighted. I don't quite agree with the "GIVE POSEY THE FULL MLE FOR 5-6 YEARS" crowd.

I don't know about you, but I didn't have a whole lot of fun growing up watching a crappy Celtics team for 15 years. I'm also not a huge fan of giving a 31 year old bench player (no matter how important he is) a 5 year deal.

This team is set up very well salary wise and will most likely use Allen and Garnetts expiring contracts to rebuild the team.

Three or four years, that's how big this teams current window is. All it takes is one or two bad contracts to cripple a team in the NBA these days.

[nickagneta]

the starter of this thread must not know much about beno udrih and the kings situation .. some of the comments being made about beno here just arent fair.. saying he doesnt bring anything to the table, overpaid ect ..

look at what other starting point guards are making, then look at what beno got and actually watch the guy play, he basically played bibby out of town who makes around twice as much as beno .. beno is better than rondo at this point in there careers.. sure rondo makes less but hes younger.

if you can give the MLE to a solid starting point guard whos only 27 , its a steal. he will be even better this year because he'll actually be in training camp and pre season with the team hes going to play for.

I like Udrih and his game. I think he got market value for a starting NBA PG.

But he is not anywhere near better than Rondo at this point in his career.

Let's take a look at some of Rondo's stat lines in the playoffs.

Game 5 ATL 14 PTS, 12 AST, 3 REB, 2 STL
Game 5 CLE 20 PTS, 13 AST, 2 REB, 2 STL, 1 TO
Game 5 DET  7 PTS, 13 AST, 6 REB, 4 STL, 1 TO
Game 1 LAL  4 PTS, 16 AST, 6 REB, 2 STL
Game 6 LAL 21 PTS,  8 AST, 7 REB, 6 STL 1 World Championship

The next time Beno Udrih has assist totals like those 4 games of Rondo's, will be the first time he ever has one. Rondo had 4 of them in the pressure packed atmosphere of game 5's and the opening of the Finals.

Beno isn't the passer, rebounder, or defender that Rondo is. Rondo makes smarter plays, is more athletic, and runs an offense better.

Beno is a better outside shooter and scorer than Rondo is. But that is it.

Rondo is already considered by experts to be one of the 3-4 best defensive PGs in the league. He may be the leading candidate for First Team All Defense next year right now.

Rondo led a team to a world championship starting at PG at the age of 22. The only other guys in the last 30 years to do that, and maybe ever, are Magic Johnson and Tony Parker. Both have multiple rings.

As I said, I like Udrih, but let's not start elevating what he has as an all around PG game that high that quick. He's proven nothing except that he can score and run a team enough in a contract year to cash in on Sacramento's desparate need of a PG.

[cordobes]

the starter of this thread must not know much about beno udrih and the kings situation .. some of the comments being made about beno here just arent fair.. saying he doesnt bring anything to the table, overpaid ect ..

look at what other starting point guards are making, then look at what beno got and actually watch the guy play, he basically played bibby out of town who makes around twice as much as beno .. beno is better than rondo at this point in there careers.. sure rondo makes less but hes younger.

if you can give the MLE to a solid starting point guard whos only 27 , its a steal. he will be even better this year because he'll actually be in training camp and pre season with the team hes going to play for.

Are you Beno Udrih's agent or brother?  He had half of a good season and now he is a quality pg. Pg's better than Beno: Tony Parker, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Baron Davis, Monta Ellis, Derek Fisher, Rondo, Jameer Nelson, Andre Miller, TJ Ford, Jose Calderon, Jason Kidd, Devin Harris, Aernas, Delonte West, Billups, Iverson, and some more that are debatable.  Hmmmm I wonder if he is overpaid.

You are aware that some of those guys have max contracts and Beno got the MLE, right?

The question is: what PG would you get this offseason offering him the MLE?

[tallpaul]

Well... you might think Beno has proven something and is a "quality" NBA point. I don't happen to think so. At all.

Look at these 2 players and tell me who is the better point guard - and how much each is worth

A
2007-08 Statistics FG 3PT FT Rebounds Misc
  G MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT STL BLK TO PF AST PTS
Season 65 32.0 328-707 .464 53-137 .387 125-147 .850 0.5 2.8 3.3 .86 .15 2.28 2.12 4.3 12.8
Career 272 17.5 734-1674 .438 168-464 .362 284-346 .821 0.3 1.3 1.6 .51 .08 1.23 1.32 2.4 7.1


B
2007-08 Statistics FG 3PT FT Rebounds Misc
  G MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT STL BLK TO PF AST PTS
Season 60 32.2 223-556 .401 32-114 .281 78-105 .743 0.3 2.0 2.3 .98 .18 1.85 2.85 5.9 9.3
Career 274 23.7 796-2038 .391 143-473 .302 403-523 .771 0.2 1.5 1.7 .74 .12 1.64 2.28 3.8 7.8

[tallpaul]

The point here is that the market dictates what players can look for. Marginal starters and solid (even specialist) role players are getting near full MLE deals.

Question - What are the Cs alternatives to Posey? And don't forget that at this point Posey is a proven commodity. Just listen to Hubie Brown and Van Gundy talk about the guy.

I'd rather not give the guy > 3 years at $6 million per, but that doesn't mean that someone else won't go 4 (or 5) years - and the impact of losing Posey creates a querstion mark.

This team is built for the next 2 years - beyond that, there are major issues. Rondo is the only stud under 30 on the squad. Those hemming and hawing about giving Posey 4 years are over-thinking the situation.

[nickagneta]

The point here is that the market dictates what players can look for. Marginal starters and solid (even specialist) role players are getting near full MLE deals.

Question - What are the Cs alternatives to Posey? And don't forget that at this point Posey is a proven commodity. Just listen to Hubie Brown and Van Gundy talk about the guy.

I'd rather not give the guy > 3 years at $6 million per, but that doesn't mean that someone else won't go 4 (or 5) years - and the impact of losing Posey creates a querstion mark.

This team is built for the next 2 years - beyond that, there are major issues. Rondo is the only stud under 30 on the squad. Those hemming and hawing about giving Posey 4 years are over-thinking the situation.

I like the full MLE money 3 yr team option 4th year deal(my own idea). If the guys stay healthy and because of the development of Perk, Rondo and another young guy the Celtic window expands out to 4 years the Celtics would probably pick up the option anyway so he gets a 4th year.

All that said if someone wants to guarantee 5 years to the guy, I don't begrudge him wanting to have his last big paycheck and I don't begrudge the Celtics being smart with their money.

The teams that are consistently in the running every year are the teams that make smart financial decisions and can draft well. Detroit, San Antonio, Phoenix and Utah come to mind. They tend not to give out stupid contracts. They draft pretty well for where they draft. And they will make they unpopular financial decision to keep the team from burying itself in cap debt.

I think both Posey and Udrih deserve at least MLE money. Udrih will be a starting NBA PG and not a bad one. That's worth the $5.6 million. Posey will be the defensive, veteran, championship experienced, locker room guy that comes off the bench as a 6th or 7th man and that too is worth $5.6 million.

I just think that for what Posey has given the game and what Beno has it is a shame that they make the same amount of money. You see guys like Posey, Horry, Bowen, and othes that have been consistently good team contributors who's value exceeds the stat lines making $2-6million a year on two year contracts and then some one year wonder comes along and snags big bucks for big years and later he turns out to be an absolute stiff.

It can get frustrating I'm sure.

Well at least this isn't the NFL where an unproven potential guy comes out of college and nabs $30 million guaranteed in the draft and never does anything and you see 10 year interior linemen who are some of the best in the league at what they do never making half that in their careers.

[pearljammer10]

Is Beno really making that much money? I sure hope Wyc is ready to open that check book cause we are going to be paying the Luxury tax for quite sometime.

[guava_wrench]

You see guys like Posey, Horry, Bowen, and othes that have been consistently good team contributors who's value exceeds the stat lines making $2-6million a year on two year contracts and then some one year wonder comes along and snags big bucks for big years and later he turns out to be an absolute stiff.

Good teams need role players like Posey, Horry and Bowen, but they are still role players. Good teams can afford to have them because they have stars who can do most of what is needed. The fact that they fit in well on a top tier team with a lot of talent apart from them is not what sets their market value.

I find this over-analysis of the Posey situation silly. We don't know how these things will play out over 4 years, yet some people are so dead set that they know what Danny has to do now.

The claim that if we had someone other than Posey from day 1 we would not have won it all is silly. We do not know what everyone's role would have been. If we didn't have Cedric Maxwell, take away one championship. Yet we were still able to get rid of him and win.

I would love to have Posey back, even if he can't finish when he penetrates. I love his 3, his defense, and the way he fits into the team. But we can also win without him. We could also lose with him.

People mention the games he played good D in the playoffs, but some don't mention when he looked bad on defense. It isn't the end of the world if we lose him, though I'd rather keep him.

[TripleOT]

I would love to have Posey back, even if he can't finish when he penetrates.

Care to elaborate on this?

  Posey shot 58.5% inside the paint this past season (65% in the playoffs).  Pierce was at 57.4%, for comparison's sake. Can he not "finish when he penetrates" either?

How about Ray Allen (54.5%)?   

[the celt]

nick agneta is dead-on. i actually like Beno's game and was amazed that the Spurs let him go for nothing (what, Jacque Vaughn is better? Pop has always been erratic in this way). But he's not even close to Rondo, both in terms of where he's at now, what he's accomplished, and what his upside is. Rondo has a legitimate chance to be an elite, all-star caliber point guard, and he's shown that he shows up in big games. Beno may be serviceable, but he's never going to be an all-star. he's a defensive liability who will score 12 to 14 points a game and dish maybe 4 or 5 assists, at his very best. Rondo is one of a handful of point guards in the game today who has stretches where he can dominate the game on both ends of the floor (think Game 6, NBA finals, quarter 3).

let's not forget what we have in this splendid young point guard. Beno is a slight upgrade on Sebastian Telfair; Rondo is a game-changer.

[LarBrd33]

people need to understand that it's not just about lowballing Posey.  We are offering the max we can offer him without giving him the MLE.  That's important, because Ainge obviously feels we have holes that need to be filled on this team (we do) and that he may be able to use the MLE to bring in help.  That MLE can be split up to a few different players.   And additionally... for all the excitable fanboys who are already hyped up about Bill Walker, realize that using a portion of the MLE to sign Walker is one of the only ways we could retain him long term if in fact Bill Walker shockingly turns out to be a stud (think of guys like Gilbert Arenas who Golden State was unable to sign after his rookie deal.  2nd round picks can bolt unless you try to give them 3 years and retain their bird rights).  There are several reasons to retain that MLE for important short term and long term goals.  Some examples...

Long term: 
-We don't want to be paying a 36 year old James Posey 7-8 million a year. 
-We want to make sure we have flexibility once the big 3 start expiring.  We don't want to give him 4-5 years.  We would prefer to give him 3. 
-In the event Bill Walker turns into a player in the next couple years, we don't want him leaving in two years, because we are over the cap and don't have his bird rights.

Short term:
-Use up the MLE to bring in Posey and now we gotta hope we can sign a backup point guard, backup big man, etc using vet min deals.   It might not mean much, but if Ainge feels this team will be greatly improved by bringing in a free agent like Chris Andersen or Darius Miles, I hope he has the flexibility to give them the contract they want.  2 mil here... 2 mil there... it could mean a lot to our 2008-09 team. 

So it's not like Posey is getting slighted.  It's not like our owners are cheap.  It's about Ainge trying to maximize our talent with what the rules allow.  If our best option is to use up the entire MLE on Posey and extend him to a 5 year deal that would have him being paid 8 million as an old man... I'm sure Ainge will do it.  But I have full trust in his ability to put this team together.  We are the 2008 NBA Champions thanks to him.  If Ainge lets Posey walk, I'll support the decision.